My First Audio PC based on HDPlex 2nd Generation H5

[boy_lah]

Hi lmitche,

So removing the NAS and powering the HDD externally has improved your SQ? Also, are you using one drive for both OS and music storage?

I'm also thinking about powering my OS SSD externally via JS-2 and this is great feedback.

 

Buddy of mine who's been playing with this stuff for years tell me to ELIMINATE the router/NAS. So powering a USB HDD from the pc OR (even better) use a SSD (not just OS but music files) on the motherboard is the best option. You don't even need a LPSU to power the external HDD.

 

Current 1TB SSD is max size limit. That is only issue. And pricy of course. You will need a motherboard that has the m2 socket. Friend suggests only use Samsung brand SSD.

 

Finally, for HDD, another thread seems to suggest WD's PURPLE (surveillance) HDD is best sounding! Better than the other ones.

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822236660

[matthias]

In preliminary testing SQ is stunning as the need for the NAS connection is removed and substituted for the quieter HDD. Also, SSDs generate a lot of high frequency noise that is eliminated with the HDD.

 

Thanks for reporting.

I think as well that sending music files via ethernet may not be the best thing.

 

Matt

[boy_lah]

Thanks for reporting.

I think as well that sending music files via ethernet may not be the best thing.

 

Buddy argues HDD has latency which SSD doesn't have hence he votes for SSD. But I'm yet to experiment myself. But all seem to agree no NAS nor router is a good thing.

[andru26]

Andru - many thanks for your detailed replies! And wow. Even memory type matters?

 

boy_lah,

 

In the last year or so I found out that MANY things matter in digital audio, some of them that I have not even thought about before.

 

I personally don't have experience with the streamers/parts/LPSUs you mentioned, so I can't accuratelly answer your questions.

 

However, my suggestion is to ask yourself a few questions:

 

1. Do you want to do a custom build or to use an existing solution (SOTM 200/microRendu/Auralic)? I can tell you that in my experience it is more expensive to build your own. So, if you're on a tight budget you might consider the second option. But note that even with these solutions a LPSU is needed to maximize the performance

 

2. If you decide to build your own, then think about how do you intend to play your music. If you want to upsample to DSD512 using HQP, then you should get a very powerful CPU. If upsampling is not your intent, I guess an I5 will work fine. But you should also have a look at low TDP Xeons. This one (Intel® Xeon® Processor E3-1235L v5 (8M Cache, 2.00 GHz) Product Specifications) has a 25W TDP and it won't require a lot or current from the LPSU.

 

3. The SSD vs HDD debate is very long here on CA. Some people say SSD sounds better, others swear by HDD. I believe it's best to test it for yourself and decide.

 

4. Regarding the LPSU, you should consider your choices carefully. I would NOT go for switching mode PS. Although Seasonic makes excellent PS, they are not intended for audio. HD Plex 100W is very well regarded among audiophiles and I believe that it's the best you can buy for the money. Not to mention the excellent HD Plex support. You could start this way and upgrade to a better LPSU when you'll have more funds. You will also need a nano PS with it: HDPLEX-300W-Hi-Fi-DC-ATX-Power-Supply (16V-24V Wide Range Voltage Input).

 

5. ECC RAM seems to be better because of the error correction ability

 

6. I definitely recommend JCAT. For me it made a big difference, improving all aspects of SQ.

 

To sum up, having a LPSU, JCAT + AO is the golden combo that worked in my case. I am sure that there are other ways of doing this, so you'll just have to find you own

[lmitche]

Hi lmitche,

 

So removing the NAS and powering the HDD externally has improved your SQ? Also, are you using one drive for both OS and music storage?

I'm also thinking about powering my OS SSD externally via JS-2 and this is great feedback.

Yes, well I'm leaving the NAS, and will use it as backup. But music will be sourced locally. The OS will be on the same drive.

[lmitche]

Buddy argues HDD has latency which SSD doesn't have hence he votes for SSD. But I'm yet to experiment myself. But all seem to agree no NAS nor router is a good thing.

Your buddy is right, but we don't need the performance to play music. Eliminating the high frequency noise from the SSD is a great benefit of the HDD.

[Marcin_gps]

@andru26, nice build - almost identical to mine

 

Cheers,

Marcin

[andru26]

@andru26, nice build - almost identical to mine

Cheers,

Marcin

 

Thanks Marcin!

 

And thanks for your great USB card . It really changed my system.

[Lebouwsky]

Great post, but I'm a bit confused. Why go through all the trouble of making the pc as (electrically and sonicly) quiet as possible. Hqplayer offers the "NAA" route, where the noicy pc (as noicy as one can be) is separated from the renderer like the sms200, microrendu or even a pi. In combination with the bridged connection and a galvanically isolated lpsu, that seems to be the way forward for many people on this forum. Am I missing something?

[ElviaCaprice]

Great post, but I'm a bit confused. Why go through all the trouble of making the pc as (electrically and sonicly) quiet as possible. Hqplayer offers the "NAA" route, where the noicy pc (as noicy as one can be) is separated from the renderer like the sms200, microrendu or even a pi. In combination with the bridged connection and a galvanically isolated lpsu, that seems to be the way forward for many people on this forum. Am I missing something?

Yes, everything matters, even the noisy PC preceding the NAA/renderer. Choose your poison.

[Lebouwsky]

Yes, everything matters, even the noisy PC preceding the NAA/renderer. Choose your poison.

 

Do you believe in the benefits of a NAA? With benefits I mean isolating the pc workhorse from the renderer and therefore improvement in SQ.

[ElviaCaprice]

Do you believe in the benefits of a NAA? With benefits I mean isolating the pc workhorse from the renderer and therefore improvement in SQ.

 

Yes and no. Better, you can skip the NAA and make the PC extremely low powered with galvanic isolation, no bigger than needed (like the Renderer/NAA).

[lmitche]

I am using a single high power PC for HQplayer upsampling directly connected to the DAC. I would never go the NAA route. With isolation in the right places, there is no point to a second machine.

[andru26]

Yes and no. Better, you can skip the NAA and make the PC extremely low powered with galvanic isolation, no bigger than needed (like the Renderer/NAA).

 

Can you please explain how the to galvanically isolate the PC? Are you talking about using somehting like Intona?

[ElviaCaprice]

Can you please explain how the to galvanically isolate the PC? Are you talking about using somehting like Intona?

 

I was referring to power supply. It may be that an isolation transformer will do the trick with an added LPS.

[andru26]

I was referring to power supply. It may be that an isolation transformer will do the trick with an added LPS.

Thank you for clarifying.

[ElviaCaprice]

I'm thinking of a build this summer with this mobo. NP591 :: JNP591 :: Intel Braswell N3160 SoC Pico-ITX Motherboard :: JETWAY COMPUTER CORP.

 

Add a card for making the mini-pcie slot a PCIe 1X and install an audio card there. Use a 3.3V M2 sata card for the OS. Windows 10 optimized. 12V, Have a few choices for power, the more isolated the better.

[lmitche]

Check this out! http://www.hwtools.net/ExtenderBoard/P4SM2.html

[ElviaCaprice]

Check this out! P4SM2 (PCIe X4 to M.2 Adapter)

Looks nice, Larry. But I would need the M2 socket on the motherboard for an OS hard drive, use the single Sata port for data storage. Wouldn't it be better to use the mini PCIe socket for an adapter plus USB audio card?

But something to keep in mind if I change mobo's.

[lmitche]

Looks nice, Larry. But I would need the M2 socket on the motherboard for an OS hard drive, use the single Sata port for data storage. Wouldn't it be better to use the mini PCIe socket for an adapter plus USB audio card?

But something to keep in mind if I change mobo's.

I am quite sure that the mini pcie can be used for a SATA drive. Actually I'd use a hard drive to avoid the high frequency crap from an SSD.

[ElviaCaprice]

I am quite sure that the mini pcie can be used for a SATA drive. Actually I'd use a hard drive to avoid the high frequency crap from an SSD.

 

Makes sense, I didn't think this far out. I think I would just run one 5V 2.5 inch HDD 5TB for all from the Sata connector, partition off the OS. Bag the SSD drive.

 

What would be the advantage of using the M2 sata slot for the PCIe adapter over the mini PCIe?

[lmitche]

I don't have any experience with m.2 over the mini-pcie so it's tough to say which is preferred. In the end it depends on the type of peripheral device you want to use. You said an audio card. Storage, USB and Adnaco cards come to mind here.

 

I think my next build will use a mini-itx form factor. I'd like to go smaller to mini-STX, but I need a proper PCIE x4 slot with access for fiber cables on the outside and that isn't happening in mini-STX.

[lmitche]

I think I would just run one 5V 2.5 inch HDD 5TB for all from the Sata connector, partition off the OS. Bag the SSD drive.

FYI - yesterday I returned two 2.5 inch 4 and 5 TB Seagate drives to my vendor for a refund. Both were flaky, very slow and I couldn't get them to run chkdsk without errors. I was powering them with LPS-1.

 

Nevertheless, the sound quality benefits over the SSD they replaced were significant. In the end, the same benefit was obtained using a 3.5 inch 4 TB 12 volt WD red NAS drive powered from the ATX power supply. This configuration also has the advantage of freeing up an lps-1 which was repurposed as power source for my USB powered DAC.

 

After all this, the PC is greatly simplified, and sound quality is at a new high level.

[Jud]

FYI - yesterday I returned two 2.5 inch 4 and 5 TB Seagate drives to my vendor for a refund. Both were flaky, very slow and I couldn't get them to run chkdsk without errors. I was powering them with LPS-1.

 

Nevertheless, the sound quality benefits over the SSD they replaced were significant. In the end, the same benefit was obtained using a 3.5 inch 4 TB 12 volt WD red NAS drive powered from the ATX power supply. This configuration also has the advantage of freeing up an lps-1 which was repurposed as power source for my USB powered DAC.

 

After all this, the PC is greatly simplified, and sound quality is at a new high level.

 

 

I have not had good experiences with Seagate drives. My experiences with WD and HGST have been much better.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[lmitche]

I have not had good experiences with Seagate drives. My experiences with WD and HGST have been much better.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Yeh, I should have known better. Seagate is the only manufacturer with drives > 2tbs in the 2.5 inch 5 volt form factor. I had hoped Seagate were beyond their historic quality issues. Unfortunately not. Their lack of competition in this space must mean it's either hard to do, or its a dead end that SSDs will soon fill so the others don't bother. I don't understand how they are still in business with these quality issues.

 

Happily, despite my initial bias, good old WD 5400 rpm 3.5 inch NAS drives perform the same from an audio standpoint.

 

This proves that it is the elimination of the noisy SSD high frequency backwash on the 5 volt rail that makes the SQ difference here. Ordinarily that backwash must express itself on the 5 volt USB power lines and other 5 volt connected components.