Concert Hall Architecture

[rando]

Count me among those whose expectations were dashed by blots on the scenery like that Disney erection [sic]. Exercises in stilted viewing angles for the sheer sake of creating a monument to imbalanced culture functions. A reason to evict public interest in a plot of land valuable enough it needed to be held down by inaccessible real estate.

 

Luckily there are other thoughts on concert halls. This time in Poland, new home of the Sinfonia Varsovia expected to open in 2022. Poland already being home to the translucent glass Szczecin Philharmonic Hall is obviously invested in creating structures that invite further interest with advanced acoustic design. Places you could take the kids to see the Christmas Bells without giving them nightmares or troubled reactions to the subscripts inherent to design language' dark warning of ill intent. I'd eat lunch outside this place before wandering in to watch the musicians rehearse.

 

 

[jhwalker]

Count me among those whose expectations were dashed by blots on the scenery like that Disney erection [sic]. Exercises in stilted viewing angles for the sheer sake of creating a monument to imbalanced culture functions. A reason to evict public interest in a plot of land valuable enough it needed to be held down by inaccessible real estate.

 

Luckily there are other thoughts on concert halls. This time in Poland, new home of the Sinfonia Varsovia expected to open in 2022. Poland already being home to the translucent glass Szczecin Philharmonic Hall is obviously invested in creating structures that invite further interest with advanced acoustic design. Places you could take the kids to see the Christmas Bells without giving them nightmares or troubled reactions to the subscripts inherent to design language' dark warning of ill intent. I'd eat lunch outside this place before wandering in to watch the musicians rehearse.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32709[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]32710[/ATTACH]

 

Not sure which "Disney erection" you are referring to - the Walt Disney Concert Hall, home of the LA Philharmonic? If so, I couldn't disagree more - it's a striking building, very attractive, with a world-class auditorium.

 

And I certainly wouldn't call the Szczecin Philharmonic Hall attractive, in any way - it actually makes me vaguely ill to look at

 

But different strokes for different folks

[sphinxsix]

 

And I certainly wouldn't call the Szczecin Philharmonic Hall attractive, in any way - it actually makes me vaguely ill to look at

 

But different strokes for different folks

As for the last sentence - I agree. Actually the Szczecin Philharmonic Hall has won the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture.

 

Asked if it integrates well with the city I'd say 'no' (actually quite the opposite - judging by photos and film materials) but probably it wasn't supposed to. As far as I'm regarded I like the corridors and other interiors much more than the music hall interior itself - I'm not a big fan of golden color which for me has too strong association with baroque architecture which in general I don't like too much either. And its form is a bit too cubist and cold at the same time for my taste.

 

You can check it out for yourselves:

 

[rando]

I will add that there is some significance in constructing a white church like structure with multiple steeples on top of the remains of an auditorium destroyed in WWII. No doubt the golden interior is also informed by rebuilding in peace. Without any insight the building, during daylight hours, could be said to lack impact or natural ease. Lit up it is hard to ignore the significant harmony it imparts to its surroundings. The design was awarded for construing depth unlikely to be reconciled in a glance. White was so three years has no bearing on those capable of shedding the blinders of home interior design trends.

 

I will say my return to interest in destination symphonic performance spaces was reignited by churches and, more topically, recording inside them. Often the attention paid them was second only to royal houses in Europe. In America they were constructed by the entire community before improving their own shelter. Recording inside them is challenging and has been for some time. Materials age and what was once state of the art grows troublesome to maintain. On the other hand, studio albums lack that certain eminence, especially, digital trickery cannot replicate. The visual appeal of these new constructions may not determine the end result in our homes, but I find it exciting there is renewed interest in rejuvenating the supply of recording spaces we might watch live music in.

 

Chris might have even gotten dragged into this place to hear the organ at this concrete church that has been getting a lot of international attention the last few years.

 

[sphinxsix]

I will add that there is some significance in constructing a white church like structure with multiple steeples on top of the remains of an auditorium destroyed in WWII.

Didn't know about it.

 

I wonder if Saint John’s Abbey Church acoustics and organ are good too.. Its form is simply epic.

 

 

A slightly different approach (and I believe almost open air acoustics I don't think it is used as a concert hall though) - building designed by Belgian architects Arnout Van Vaerenbergh and Pieterjan Gijs, which is constructed out of 100 layers and 2000 columns of steel and looks like a traditional church with transparent walls.

 

 

[R Johnson]

Many of the new concert halls, such as Disney, Paris and Hamburg, have been built with the "vineyard" concept. This puts a large percentage of the seats to the sides, and to the rear of the orchestra. This brings the audience closer to the orchestra which is great visually, but what about the sound balance from those seats? The seats behind the stage are great for watching the conductor but good luck hearing a vocal soloist facing the front of the hall.

[rando]

Good question. If you watched the

you would have noticed the abundance of performance spaces being utilized. So you might wonder if those on seating tiers directly below miss line of sight and suffer poor projection of the singers and instruments above them. Much as a soloist on stage is not directly projecting their performance at those seated to their rear.

 

Amplification is as high tech as the design work in other facets of the building. Shaping of sound is quite serious to musicians whose paychecks depend on the audience being inured to the full value of live performances. How this is done probably has more to do with technology used in movie theaters than is openly let on. The disconnect of seeing someone singing 10' to your right and hearing them in completely different plane fully balanced with other sounds depicts the experience more closely than one of alienation.

[semente]

The Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra talks about Alvar Aalto's chair at the Finlandia Hall (or why architects should stick to what they do best and leave chair and hall design to the experts):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD9_rKPF73c

[sphinxsix]

@semente Enjoyed it!

 

As for the metal music at the end of the movie - it reminded me that Metallica (and not only them obviously) used to like the 'vineyard' concept of the stage - audience arrangement during their gigs. A problematical solution for concert halls, I believe too.

[jabbr]

MHRC

 

[semente]

I'm always a suspicious/bit scared of renovations as they are generally moved by objectives that have little to do with sound.

 

They did one to a local hall and made a mess of it and you can read a sound engineer's comments about what went wrong here:

 

HOW THE GULBENKIAN GREAT HALL WENT FROM A WORLD LEADING SYMPHONIC MUSIC VENUE TO A THIRD RATE MULTIMEDIA ARENA IN A 8 MONTH ACOUSTIC DOWNGRADE by João Ganho

 

R

[semente]

Here's another interesting small piece on hall acoustics:

 

Concert Hall Acoustics Tutorial | Acoustics, Audio and Video | University of Salford

 

R

[rando]

Perhaps next month musicophile will tender his impressions of Elbphilharmonie acoustics. Of all that has been said of them very little focused on the effect I noted was apparent in audience members in close proximity to smaller groupings well above the stage. Otherwise, opinions fell close to the following Germanic expression of adoration.

 

‘It has a sharp, crisp, extremely light and transparent sound that shows no mercy to the ears or to the minor errors even the best musicians in the world make. Every detail is presented perfectly, but never do the colours melt. Nothing is touching. It is a materialistic sound without any heart.’

[semente]

As for the last sentence - I agree. Actually the Szczecin Philharmonic Hall has won the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture.

 

Asked if it integrates well with the city I'd say 'no' (actually quite the opposite - judging by photos and film materials) but probably it wasn't supposed to. As far as I'm regarded I like the corridors and other interiors much more than the music hall interior itself - I'm not a big fan of golden color which for me has too strong association with baroque architecture which in general I don't like too much either. And its form is a bit too cubist and cold at the same time for my taste.

 

You can check it out for yourselves:

 

 

I like the external shapes, the volumes, but not the vertical louvre-like "wrapping", and I find that the whiteness colides with the old building next to it.

This kind of public building should, in my view, stand out and become a landmark but one doesn't need to make it SHOUT.

 

The interiors look like a white model, sterile, cold, but the hall could have been quite beautiful if it weren't for the baroque gold plating, which I find pretentiously nouveau-riche.

It looks like it could sound good but you never know.

There's only so much conceptualism that architecture can take...unlike other visual arts, architecture first and foremost exists to serve a purpose.

 

More photos here:

 

Philharmonic Hall Szczecin / Estudio Barozzi Veiga | ArchDaily

 

R

[rando]

Especially in aerial photos the stark incongruousness hits you. Then again new in Europe can refer to the 1700's and white buildings gather the appearance of aging rather quick.

 

Elegance and elegant decay are polar fields that naturally reverse quite slowly and repulse each other.

[semente]

Especially in aerial photos the stark incongruousness hits you. Then again new in Europe can refer to the 1700's and white buildings gather the appearance of aging rather quick.

 

Elegance and elegant decay are polar fields that naturally reverse quite slowly and repulse each other.

 

 

 

You've mentioned ageing and I find that many of my colleagues give little thought to how materials change with time.

 

But I do think that architecture should express, both spatially and formally, the day and time of it's creation.

[rando]

Wasn't aware you are in the trade. Surely a commission this large takes into account the physical reality planting a white glass building inside a large city next to age worn porous structures is a recipe for collecting very visible grime. Time being such a small quantity here. Some manner of coating or technical solution must have been implemented.

[semente]

Wasn't aware you are in the trade. Surely a commission this large takes into account the physical reality planting a white glass building inside a large city next to age worn porous structures is a recipe for collecting very visible grime. Time being such a small quantity here. Some manner of coating or technical solution must have been implemented.

 

Perhaps collecting grime is part of the plan to better integrate the building into it's surroundings.

[jabbr]

I'm always a suspicious/bit scared of renovations as they are generally moved by objectives that have little to do with sound.

 

They did one to a local hall and made a mess of it and you can read a sound engineer's comments about what went wrong here:

 

HOW THE GULBENKIAN GREAT HALL WENT FROM A WORLD LEADING SYMPHONIC MUSIC VENUE TO A THIRD RATE MULTIMEDIA ARENA IN A 8 MONTH ACOUSTIC DOWNGRADE by João Ganho

 

R

 

Yes -- I'm anxious to hear how it turns out -- our little hall had nice acoustics but they tell me not all seats were the same -- I'm worried that they will all now be equally bad!

[gmgraves]

Not sure which "Disney erection" you are referring to - the Walt Disney Concert Hall, home of the LA Philharmonic? If so, I couldn't disagree more - it's a striking building, very attractive, with a world-class auditorium.

 

And I certainly wouldn't call the Szczecin Philharmonic Hall attractive, in any way - it actually makes me vaguely ill to look at

 

But different strokes for different folks

 

Well, I kind of agree with the OP, here. The Disney Auditorium in downtown LA is not what I call a pretty building (although it's not as bad as the OP thinks it is), but on the other hand it sounds magnificent - almost as good as Carnegie Hall in NYC (the best this concert goer has ever heard) I'm sort of between a rock and a hard place here. On the one hand, we have the NY Philharmonic's home at Lincoln Center (used to be called Avry Fisher Hall, after the famous Hi-Fi equipment manufacturer. I don't recall what they call it now. To me it will always be Fisher Hall) a very attractive auditorium that has had acoustic problems from the get-go, and after a number of of acoustic "face-lifts" it's still problematical. The Disney Center OTOH, they got right coming out of the gate. I guess sounding good is more important than looking good, on balance, but it is nice when it's both.

[gmgraves]

I'm always a suspicious/bit scared of renovations as they are generally moved by objectives that have little to do with sound.

 

They did one to a local hall and made a mess of it and you can read a sound engineer's comments about what went wrong here:

 

HOW THE GULBENKIAN GREAT HALL WENT FROM A WORLD LEADING SYMPHONIC MUSIC VENUE TO A THIRD RATE MULTIMEDIA ARENA IN A 8 MONTH ACOUSTIC DOWNGRADE by João Ganho

 

R

 

And it's done so often! Chicago's Symphony Hall used to have about the best acoustics in the USA, until they remodeled it in the 1960's. After that it became mediocre beyond belief. Avery Fisher Hall at Lincoln Center has NEVER sounded good and subsequent "renovations" have not made it any better. Makes you wonder how come, with all of our modern acoustical technology, that all the best sounding halls seem to have been designed in the 18th and 19th century (La Scala, The Paris Opera House, Bayreuth, Carnegie Hall, The State Department Auditorium in Washington D.C., etc,).

[rando]

The intriguing state of David Geffen (Avery Fisher) Hall and the NYPO who reside in it could fill a few pages, elsewhere. A lot of infrastructure changed since the negotiations to secure naming rights began.

 

As for the question of acoustics in modern halls. The skill, knowledge, cross-generational work crews, and voluminous number of craftsmen available in previous times would have to be predominant differences worth investigating.

 

I'd further another idea from one of the top mathematicians in the world right now, as well. There are good numbers that were sought out and drove every practical advancement in the history of mankind. There are also bad numbers that have not ultimately advanced us despite the solutions they provided.

[rando]

The latest hall to make news is Kuwait's Shaikh Jaber Al Ahmad Cultural Centre. The opera hall broke out in flames this morning with no casualties reported, Reports are the engineering room was where it started. Apparently this disaster has spared the public a run of "Cats" which was slated to begin Thursday.

 

 

Comprising four separate buildings with titanium shells covered in depictions of Islamic patterns. The main building, where the fire broke out, opened to the pubic in October 2016 at a cost estimated over 3/4 Billion dollars. Overall the complex hosts a wide range of functions as well as housing libraries, restaurants, parks, and cinemas.

 

[mourip]

I live in Washington DC where there are some great venues, The Kennedy Center, Blues Alley, and The Birchmere being among the more notable.

 

A couple of months ago my wife and I got tickets to hear Jake Shimabukuro at The Music Center At Strathmore. It is a relatively new venue and the interior is impressive but the accoustics...not so much. I was stunned by the resonnances that developed for certain frequencies and it really detracted from the performance of a remarkable musician.

 

I guess what struck me was that someone had put in all that money and effort and not gotten it right. My guess is that trying to make a hall attractive, impressive, comfortable, with good lines of sight and great acoustics is a daunting task.

 

It sort of makes me chuckle that we want to recreate the "concert hall experience". Even my wife has said "Why go to a concert when the music at home sounds so good". I think that I agree with her and of course am happy that she feels that way :-)

 

Going to see a legendary performer in person or a large orchestra perform will always be great but I think that few venues have really great acoustics and certainly not for all seats.

[semente]

I live in Washington DC where there are some great venues, The Kennedy Center, Blues Alley, and The Birchmere being among the more notable.

 

A couple of months ago my wife and I got tickets to hear Jake Shimabukuro at The Music Center At Strathmore. It is a relatively new venue and the interior is impressive but the accoustics...not so much. I was stunned by the resonnances that developed for certain frequencies and it really detracted from the performance of a remarkable musician.

 

I guess what struck me was that someone had put in all that money and effort and not gotten it right. My guess is that trying to make a hall attractive, impressive, comfortable, with good lines of sight and great acoustics is a daunting task.

 

It sort of makes me chuckle that we want to recreate the "concert hall experience". Even my wife has said "Why go to a concert when the music at home sounds so good". I think that I agree with her and of course am happy that she feels that way :-)

 

Going to see a legendary performer in person or a large orchestra perform will always be great but I think that few venues have really great acoustics and certainly not for all seats.

 

Were Jake Shimabukuro's instruments and vocals amplified?

The reason I ask is because music halls are designed to "support" acoustic instruments and unamplified vocals.

If you listen to amplified music then you're certainly better served soundwise by buying the record; go to a gig for other reasons.

 

And one has to understand that there's a degree of uncertainty in concert hall design for it is not possible to predict exactly how the room will sound after it's been built.

This is why many in the trade defend the shoebox shape (i.e. the Haydnsaal at the Schloss Esterházy), for it has proven qualities.

 

 

 

Besides, nowadays clients look for a multipurpose hall which, just like a swiss army knife, provides flexibility but ultimately excels at none of it's uses.

 

R