The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

It did'nt take me long to decide when I compared FMC vs wireless! ?

 

This setup actually sounds much better than with FMCs.

 

 

Listening to Bob Moses "Winter Song"

is jaw dropping good vs FMCs. Bass is much heavier now and my toes is tapping to every single track I play. I would say that the FMCs is too forward, a tad edgy, have less overall bass performance and most of all not at all the same feeling. Thinking about it I have actually stopped toe tapping lately. Now I know why! ?

 

My hifi bench looks like this now.

 

 

Tomorrow it will be less crowdy, because two FMCs, two battery packs plus fuchsia coloured fiber-optical cable is moving to a dark place inside my drawer.

[marksas3]

Ok I may have to give this a try, I have an old TP Link Wi-Fi extender that I bought for my workshop a year ago but never even unboxed it.

My first thought though would be to use an isolator like the EMO EN70HD between the wifi bridge and the renderer (mRendu). My next order of business will be to upgrade the power for the main router.

[Cornan]

Ok I may have to give this a try, I have an old TP Link Wi-Fi extender that I bought for my workshop a year ago but never even unboxed it.

My first thought though would be to use an isolator like the EMO EN70HD between the wifi bridge and the renderer (mRendu). My next order of business will be to upgrade the power for the main router.

 

Please do, but remember that I am using a unshielded DIY 100Base-TX cable which have only pin 1&2 plus 3&6 connected. This will force the speed down to 100Mbps and draw less current from the ethernet PHY chip.

Also, not any TP-Link extender will work in wireless bridge mode/adapter mode/media mode. You'll need to check it.

 

Power a router with a galvanicly isolated PSU is one of the best improvement in SQ that I have done. Recommended!

[marksas3]

Please do, but remember that I am using a unshielded DIY 100Base-TX cable which have only pin 1&2 plus 3&6 connected. This will force the speed down to 100Mbps and draw less current from the ethernet PHY chip.

Also, not any TP-Link extender will work in wireless bridge mode/adapter mode/media mode. You'll need to check it.

 

Power a router with a galvanicly isolated PSU is one of the best improvement in SQ that I have done. Recommended!

 

This is the one that have now, it has Ethernet ports but it doesn't mention anything about a bridge mode.

http://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-RE2000/

 

http://www.linksys.com/us/support-product?pid=01t80000003K7ZPAA0#

[lmitche]

Ok I may have to give this a try, I have an old TP Link Wi-Fi extender that I bought for my workshop a year ago but never even unboxed it.

My first thought though would be to use an isolator like the EMO EN70HD between the wifi bridge and the renderer (mRendu). My next order of business will be to upgrade the power for the main router.

That's where exactly where I place my EMOsystems isolation transformer.

[lmitche]

Please do, but remember that I am using a unshielded DIY 100Base-TX cable which have only pin 1&2 plus 3&6 connected. This will force the speed down to 100Mbps and draw less current from the ethernet PHY chip.

Also, not any TP-Link extender will work in wireless bridge mode/adapter mode/media mode. You'll need to check it.

 

Power a router with a galvanicly isolated PSU is one of the best improvement in SQ that I have done. Recommended!

So if you have a wifi adapter, what is the benefit of powering the router with an LPS? The router is galvanically isolated from the PC and NAS no?

[Cornan]

This is the one that have now, it has Ethernet ports but it doesn't mention anything about a bridge mode.

http://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-RE2000/

 

http://www.linksys.com/us/support-product?pid=01t80000003K7ZPAA0#

 

Different manufacturers call it different things. What you want to do it to connect it as a wireless adapter so the Linksys it receiving the wireless signal and pass it to the streamer via Ethernet the cable. I think it should work with your one. Start by connecting it wirelessly, then add the Ethernet cable and set your streamer in a wired connection and see if it works. If it works I reommend to set to only 5Ghz (disable 2,4Ghz), a static IP, to turn the DHCP off and make sure to find the best Channel for the 5Ghz network with the help of for example Netgear's app Wifi Analytics or similar.

 

I did actually try TP Links supplied Cat 5E cable today. Actually not a big difference to the DIY 100Base-TX cable with this setup. This cable improved on the FMCs but apparently not much now. This is how it looks right now:

 

 

 

Sounds great but I might look into a Ethernet isolator to see if that improves things.

[Cornan]

So if you have a wifi adapter, what is the benefit of powering the router with an LPS? The router is galvanically isolated from the PC and NAS no?

 

I wouldn't know for sure Larry, but I can tell you that the improvements are really impressive and as great as my isolation transformer with floating secondary.

 

I'll guess that the router is very sensitive to AC mains noises and DC noises. The addition of a satellite DC Blocker also improves the SQ despite a fully isolated path to the streamer. IME shield noises is not a big issue with a isolated router since my Entreq Minimus does'nt improve my router anymore. It actually make it worse in my current setup.

[lmitche]

Sorry Cornan, I obviously don't have a clear picture of your network setup. I thought you had added a wifi adapter and eliminated a hard wired connection to your router. Is your music stored within on the DAC side of that wifi connection or are you moving music bits through the router at playback time?

[Cornan]

Sorry Cornan, I obviously don't have a clear picture of your network setup. I thought you had added a wifi adapter and eliminated a hard wired connection to your router. Is your music stored within on the DAC side of that wifi connection or are you moving music bits through the router at playback time?

 

My TP Link RE450 is used as a wireless adapter with cables to Aries Mini only. No cables to the router, just a wireless connection.

I play Tidal streaming only via OpenHome. (ie. all music is going through the router).

Still a galvanicly isolated lab psu makes a huge difference in SQ for me. The lab psu blocks the noise from the AC mains. These AC mains noises is most likely affecting the performance of the router negative. It does'nt matter how much it is isolated from a PC/streamer/NAS when the enemy is coming from the AC mains.

 

 

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[lmitche]

My TP Link RE450 is used as a wireless adapter with cables to Aries Mini only. No cables to the router, just a wireless connection.

I play Tidal streaming only via OpenHome. (ie. all music is going through the router).

Still a galvanicly isolated lab psu makes a huge difference in SQ for me. The lab psu blocks the noise from the AC mains. These AC mains noises is most likely affecting the performance of the router negative. It does'nt matter how much it is isolated from a PC/streamer/NAS when the enemy is coming from the AC mains.

 

 

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Wow, I am surprised. My tidal streams through an SMPS powered router, two in fact, and an SMPS powered bridge. It sounds great, competitive with local storage.

 

I'm down to one PC now, with local storage, so roon/HQplayer play my library without any network traffic.

 

Thanks for the details.

[Cornan]

Wow, I am surprised. My tidal streams through an SMPS powered router, two in fact, and an SMPS powered bridge. It sounds great, competitive with local storage.

 

I'm down to one PC now, with local storage, so roon/HQplayer play my library without any network traffic.

 

Thanks for the details.

 

I did expect a change for the better when I ordered the Voltcraft FPS-1134 to power my router. I have suspected for some time that the AC mains noises was a affecting the SQ of the router. However, the extent of it really blew my mind!

I am more and more convinced that the galvanic isolation of the AC mains are the the key to success. Actually, another thing that proved this fact to me today was that when removing my FMCs from my main system today actually improved SQ on my secondary system (which is not galvanicly isolated from AC mains yet). Why? Most likely since I now have two less battery chargers connected. Next up for my secondary system will probably be to order this to my secondary system https://www.elfa.se/sv/isolationstransformator-200-va-230-vac-115-2x-vac-block-tim-200/p/15614532, wired as a balanced isolation transformer and connected to my active speakers to ensure galvanicly isolation with DC blocking abillities. [emoji4]

[Cornan]

Just because I am curious I just ordered a D-Link DGS-105 switch which I intend to put between my TP Link RE450 and my Aries Mini.

 

 

I will power it with a TP Link Vivid battery pack (disconnected from AC mains of course). I will try to find a RJ45 male to male adapter to connect between the switch and my Aries Mini. If anyone knows where to find one please let me know!

[marksas3]

Just because I am curious I just ordered a D-Link DGS-105 switch which I intend to put between my TP Link RE450 and my Aries Mini.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33386[/ATTACH]

 

I will power it with a TP Link Vivid battery pack (disconnected from AC mains of course). I will try to find a RJ45 male to male adapter to connect between the switch and my Aries Mini. If anyone knows where to find one please let me know!

 

Sorry I don't get the point of this.

[Cornan]

Sorry I don't get the point of this.

I am just experimenting for the fun of it. That's what this thread is all about! I will try to see if it makes a difference for better or worse in my perticular setup with a wireless adapter/bridge. If the switch is very close to the Aries Mini plus "invisible" to the AC mains I suspect it could potentially be a good thing, but I wouldn't take that for granted until I have tried! Anyway, I will post back when I have evaluated it.

 

I hope that the D-Link switch can be a kind of Regen of my wired ethernet connection between the RE450 and Aries Mini. It will check the package before it is send directly to my Aries Mini. That is partly why I want it as close as possible to my Aries Mini.

[Cornan]

I have ordered this brand new type of flat U/UTP Cat6a Ethernet patch cable for my switch experiment https://www.deltaco.se/produkter/nätverk-kommunikation/nätverkskablar/cat6a/patch-platta/platta-u-utp/0-3m/UUTP-2006

 

 

Fun to see if 34awg thin wires in good quality sounds good compared to normal Cat5e and Cat6! ?

[Albrecht]

Just because I am curious I just ordered a D-Link DGS-105 switch which I intend to put between my TP Link RE450 and my Aries Mini.

I will power it with a TP Link Vivid battery pack (disconnected from AC mains of course). I will try to find a RJ45 male to male adapter to connect between the switch and my Aries Mini. If anyone knows where to find one please let me know!

Thanks for all of your work. I hope that I'm not the only one who is appreciative of your testing.

 

I was thinking similarly about one of the 5 port Cisco Gigabit switches like the SG110D as opposed to my TP-Link Green switch.

 

Looks a bit beefer, and I believe that it was ChrisC who pointed out that more pro Cisco switches sound better...

 

Cheers,

 

[Cornan]

Thanks for all of your work. I hope that I'm not the only one who is appreciative of your testing.

 

I was thinking similarly about one of the 5 port Cisco Gigabit switches like the SG110D as opposed to my TP-Link Green switch.

 

Looks a bit beefer, and I believe that it was ChrisC who pointed out that more pro Cisco switches sound better...

 

Cheers,

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33404[/ATTACH]

 

Thanks a lot Albrecht! [emoji4]

 

The whole reason why I choosed the D-Link DGS-105 was the fact that it could be powered by a battery pack, was unmanaged and had some good and potensially interesting features (like QoS and EEE). I might look into other options like Cisco if the D-Link turns out good (if the Cisco can be powered by a low voltage battery pack). [emoji4]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

@Cornan, I discovered my Netgear GS105v5 switch can be powered by +5V DC. At this voltage, idle current consumption with all ports unconnected is 60mA, and current with two devices attached at gigabit is 175mA, which is under 1W of power! Switch current drops further to 137mA after replacing the CAT6 cable between my Aries Femto and GS105v5 with my "100Mbps only" CAt5e cable, and to 100mA when a second 100Mbps cable is used between my Orbi satellite and GS105v5.

 

It would be interesting to know how the D-Link DGS-105 compares with Netgear GS105v5 in terms of their power consumption.

[Cornan]

@Cornan, I discovered my Netgear GS105v5 switch can be powered by +5V DC. At this voltage, idle current consumption with all ports unconnected is 60mA, and current with two devices attached at gigabit is 175mA, which is under 1W of power! Switch current drops further to 137mA after replacing the CAT6 cable between my Aries Femto and GS105v5 with my "100Mbps only" CAt5e cable, and to 100mA when a second 100Mbps cable is used between my Orbi satellite and GS105v5.

 

It would be interesting to know how the D-Link DGS-105 compares with Netgear GS105v5 in terms of their power consumption.

 

Thanks for sharing scan80269! ?

 

Power consumption is of great interest to me. That is why I find QoS and EEE so appealing.

I would gladly measure the current consumption on the D-Link but need to know exactly how you perform the test? I only have a battery powered multimeter available.

 

I found my 100Mbps only DIY cable to improve upon FMCs, but somehow they was'nt improving over Cat 5E with my current setup with TP Link RE450 as a wireless adapter. However, when I have got time I will make a new pair of short 100Mbps only cables using a standard Cat 6 cable to rule out if my results is due to the teflon sleeved silver wires that I am using in my current 100Base-TX version.

[scan80269]

Thanks for sharing scan80269! 

 

Power consumption is of great interest to me. That is why I find QoS and EEE so appealing.

I would gladly measure the current consumption on the D-Link but need to know exactly how you perform the test? I only have a battery powered multimeter available.

 

I found my 100Mbps only DIY cable to improve upon FMCs, but somehow they was'nt improving over Cat 5E with my current setup with TP Link RE450 as a wireless adapter. However, when I have got time I will make a new pair of short 100Mbps only cables using a standard Cat 6 cable to rule out if my results is due to the teflon sleeved silver wires that I am using in my current 100Base-TX version.

I've been using an HP E3631A DC power supply to set the voltage and do the current measurements. This supply has a digital voltage display with 10mV resolution and current display with 1mA resolution. Very handy. I simply set 5.00V constant voltage and read the device current consumption off the display. The same supply allows me to determine how low a DC input voltage can go for an Ethernet switch or FMC before it quits working. This is how I discovered the GS105v5 can run with +5V when the included SMPS wall wart delivers +12V. In contrast, the FS105v3 Fast Ethernet switch will absolutely not work with +5V DC input, though I did modify one of these with a linear regulator so it works with +5V.

 

If you have an RJ45 crimp tool you can make your own "100Mbps only" cables, and a really short cable, say 2-3 inches, can act as a male-to-male coupler which apparently no one makes.

[Cornan]

I've been using an HP E3631A DC power supply to set the voltage and do the current measurements. This supply has a digital voltage display with 10mV resolution and current display with 1mA resolution. Very handy. I simply set 5.00V constant voltage and read the device current consumption off the display. The same supply allows me to determine how low a DC input voltage can go for an Ethernet switch or FMC before it quits working. This is how I discovered the GS105v5 can run with +5V when the included SMPS wall wart delivers +12V. In contrast, the FS105v3 Fast Ethernet switch will absolutely not work with +5V DC input, though I did modify one of these with a linear regulator so it works with +5V.

 

If you have an RJ45 crimp tool you can make your own "100Mbps only" cables, and a really short cable, say 2-3 inches, can act as a male-to-male coupler which apparently no one makes.

 

Ok, I will order a simple plug-in energy meter to check the power consumption. They are quite cheap anyway.

 

I do have both Deltaco tool-free RJ45 plugs plus chinease screw terminal RJ45 plugs available, so it will not be a problem (well slightly fiddly) to make short DIY versions. Very strange that there is no RJ45 male-to-male plugs available, but I guess there is just no market for it.

 

I was wondering if I actually could have use of my 4-pin (2+2) opto-couplers on the short RJ45 adapter, using one on the two rx terminals and one on the two tx terminals (ie. 100Base-TX)? I have´nt found any proof if this is would actually work. I guess it might not be possible due to the very same reasons why it do not work for USB. However, I might just try it anyway since it is quite easy to put together.

[scan80269]

Ok, I will order a simple plug-in energy meter to check the power consumption. They are quite cheap anyway.

 

I do have both Deltaco tool-free RJ45 plugs plus chinease screw terminal RJ45 plugs available, so it will not be a problem (well slightly fiddly) to make short DIY versions. Very strange that there is no RJ45 male-to-male plugs available, but I guess there is just no market for it.

 

I was wondering if I actually could have use of my 4-pin (2+2) opto-couplers on the short RJ45 adapter, using one on the two rx terminals and one on the two tx terminals (ie. 100Base-TX)? I have´nt found any proof if this is would actually work. I guess it might not be possible due to the very same reasons why it do not work for USB. However, I might just try it anyway since it is quite easy to put together.

If I recall correctly, the two twisted pairs used in 100Base-TX are unidirectional (one pair up, one pair down), so if you figure out the direction of data flow for each pair, inserting opto-couplers that support the proper switching speed (100Base-TX uses 125Mega symbols per second) may just work, but you are essentially creating an equivalent of FMC.

 

USB 2.0 is different since the D+/D- pair is half-duplex and therefore bi-directional. This is why a device like the Intona isolator employs custom designed logic housed in two FPGA chips (one on each side of the isolation barrier) to achieve correct functionality.

 

Gigabit (1000Base-T) will also not work with opto-couplers since all 4 twisted pairs transmit and receive at the same time.

[Cornan]

If I recall correctly, the two twisted pairs used in 100Base-TX are unidirectional (one pair up, one pair down), so if you figure out the direction of data flow for each pair, inserting opto-couplers that support the proper switching speed (100Base-TX uses 125Mega symbols per second) may just work, but you are essentially creating an equivalent of FMC.

 

USB 2.0 is different since the D+/D- pair is half-duplex and therefore bi-directional. This is why a device like the Intona isolator employs custom designed logic housed in two FPGA chips (one on each side of the isolation barrier) to achieve correct functionality.

 

Gigabit (1000Base-T) will also not work with opto-couplers since all 4 twisted pairs transmit and receive at the same time.

 

Great, that sounds promising atleast. Thanks a lot!

 

The idea with the opto-couplers (if they work) is to provide passive isolation between the switch and Aries Mini. Not quite the same thing as the FMCs since no additional power is needed. I will check the speed of those Vactrol opto-couplers that I already have and check the proper directions before I'll make that 100Base-TX adapter.

[Cornan]

It would be interesting to know how the D-Link DGS-105 compares with Netgear GS105v5 in terms of their power consumption.

 

Looking at the D-Link DSG-105 manual (preparing for the arrival tomorrow) I noticed that they have actually specified the power consumtion:

 

Power On (Standby):

DC input: 0.2 watts

AC input: 0.74 watts

Maximum:

DC input: 1.55 watts

AC input: 2.75 watts

 

:-)