A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

On 3/16/2018 at 9:41 AM, MayfromSOtM said:

SOtM switch will have 8 LAN ports and 2 SFP ports, the sCLK-EX would be added as an option which means the master clock signal can be synced externally also..

 

Thanks May for your updates. Is that switch based on a product from MikroTik by any chance?

 

https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS210-8G-2SplusIN

https://www.mikrotik-store.eu/en/mikrotik-crs-210-8g-2splusin

[seeteeyou]

What's happening when they switched to an industrial mSD card with SLC chips? Let's find out

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172&start=1395

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I just started playing music from the mSD SLC card for the first time, and Wow! This is different and much better. A major jump up. I would've spent $1000s and been happy with this upgrade. The detail doesn't hit you first, that sneaks up on you a little later. It's hard to describe, maybe it's the tonal density that Rob spoke of. Electric guitar is just incredible, but so is everything. Well, dynamics might be neutral, no gain or loss. Perceived increase in bass as treble noise goes down more. Vocals are more clear. Everything is more natural sounding, more complete, more musical. I stop typing because I'm distracted by the music. My wife danced!

 

[seeteeyou]

One of those "evil" reviews that might not be necessarily a good thing to read? LOL

 

https://audiobacon.net/2018/03/13/synergistic-research-active-ground-block-se-review-going-low-get-high/

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• SOtM tX-USBultra (BNC): Seems to be much better than grounding the USB port. The HD grounding cable connected to the BNC of the tX-USBultra USB conditioner provided enormous gains with the passive block. It’ll drop the noise floor considerably and provide better outlining. Most importantly it adds body and removes this annoying glare I thought was caused by other components in the system. I suspect it would benefit external master clocks in the same way if you’re connecting one to the tX.

 

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• SOtM sMS-200 (USB): The sMS-200 on the other hand, benefits enormously (more than the tX) from both the passive Grounding Block and AGE SE (with the SE sounding more focused, detailed, and cleaner). Without the passive block, everything just flattens, sonically smears, and acoustic cues are muted. I would recommend trying out the passive Grounding Block to start for SOtM owners. It’ll reduce some of the haze.

 

[seeteeyou]

On 1/27/2018 at 3:59 PM, austinpop said:

Here's something. Someone I know got their Oppo 205 modded with upgrade PSU and OCXO by this guy: http://www.oppomod.com/ He can't stop raving about how good it's sounding - and this is someone who has the trifecta. Very intriguing, but I should caveat, I have no personal knowledge of this outfit or the resulting SQ.

 

BREAKING NEWS! It's game over because of this game changer according to @romaz

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-201#post-14113403

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Under blind testing, the difference is easy to hear and my modified Oppo not only sounds better but with either DAVE or Hugo2, this modified Oppo actually rivals my much more expensive Zenith SE/tX-USBultra/REF10 combo when connected via USB at a fraction of the price.

 

OMG! Ain't this part beyond epic?

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Oppomod.com replaced the switching PSU with a linear PSU and further replaced the stock system clock with an OCXO and this upgrade cost me less than $1k.

 

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Roy's observations were with the Toslink input of the Blu2, which may be of higher quality than the Toslink inputs of other DACs.

 

Blu2 used to have Toslink input but Chord had to replace that with USB input due to feedback from their customers. In other words, only Rob Watts brought his "special edition" Blu2 to visit Roy with Toslink input recently.

 

Even Roy's Hugo 2 seemed to work synergistically with Oppo UDP-205 via Toslink, most likely that should be applicable for something else such as the latest DAC Quetest from Chord. (i.e. A power-efficient DAC that could be fed by LPS-1.2 @ 5V 1A.)

 

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

It's an exciting time...  

 

Indeed, at first I didn't believe what Roy said but maybe a properly powered OCXO clock that's tightly integrated (an unshared clock with no clock cables involved) into Oppo itself might have an edge? We just kept reading all about the importance of clock cables, especially the impedance matching as well as its length plus the quality etc. Now we've got everything that's installed inside Oppo and we don't have stuff like BNC connectors to deal with, does it mean that signal reflections should be no biggie?

BTW, we could only speculate what would happen if that 27MHz clock from SBtron were actually replaced by something else like Morion or Neutron Star 2 etc.

http://pcaudio.tistory.com/519
http://www.sbtron.co.kr/english/product/product_ocxo.html
http://www.sbtron.co.kr/korean/product/pdfs/ocxo_sboc_25_sine.pdf

Since Oppo UDP-205 does work as USB DAC, maybe we might also use that just like USB DDC? In other words, we could always try something like ZENith SE → tX-USBultra → Oppo UDP-205 → Toslink output → DACs with Toslink inputs.

Not really all that exciting but Oppo actually announced their BOA UE Series for the local market here in Hong Kong recently

http://store.oppodigital.com.hk/index.php?lang=big5&p=6&id=18
http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=115032

That didn't seem to be all that impressive since they're actually asking $2,250 for an "official" version of modified UDP-205. Definitely not worth it since we could do much better with 3rd party mods.

Finally I'd like to remind us that even http://www.oppomod.com didn't use any kinda "decent" cables or fancy caps at all. In other words, we could definitely learn something from that PSU inside ZENith SE or even talk to Sean Jacobs about making something for Oppo.

[seeteeyou]

They're using this micro SD card with SLC chips (output current = 24 mA) and so far so good

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/RP-SMSC04DA1/P17013-ND/5119420

https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/downloads/files/panasonic-sc-series-data-sheet.pdf

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5685#p5685

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I see you need for a HDD for music storage - my collection is over 3TB. So I find that with a 4GB SLC mSD I just transfer the albums I will be listening to for that evening from the HDD to the SLC. Listen from there. FB2K makes creating a custom playlist from the SLC very easy (just 'add a folder' and select the SLC - which shows up with it's own drive letter in Windows).

 

I also have two 256GB PNY USB sticks in the other free REX USB slots and can play from them as well. Better then the HDD or SSD, but not as good as the SLC.

 

Here would be my ranking of SQ drive sources so far:
#1 SLC mSD
#2 SLC USB stick
#3 High Capacity USB stick (256GB)
#4 PNY CS2211 SSD (256GB) - (large pSLC cache), external LT3042/R-Core LPS, Custom dual Blue-Silver shielded Amphenol SATA data cable
#5 WD Black 2TB HDD.

 

 

[seeteeyou]

On 3/2/2018 at 10:57 PM, KingRex said:

If I may, try and contact Adrian with Thelinearsolution. He is here in Seattle and may be willing to help for a price.  I believe he knows all about SOTM, clocks, PS etc.    I'm pretty sure he has built a lot of these. Guessing now, but he has probably experimented with isolated power to components.  He has offered to look at my server and suggest mods to improve SQ if needed.

 

FYI - @romaz posted some impressions here

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117902

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This OCXO switch from The Linear Solution is at least as good as my DLink switch and with further burn-in, it may turn out to be convincingly better. At the present time, my DLink switch has a touch more smoothness and a touch less glare but music streamed through the OCXO switch definitely has more of a "you are there" presence and this switch seems to still be improving. If I can get this slight harshness to go away, my preference is definitely for The Linear Solution OCXO switch. Compared to "no switch," the Netgear GS108, or the Paul Pang TCXO, I would definitely go with The Linear Solution switch. When you factor in the cost of a REF10 and sCLK-EX board, my SOtM-modified DLink switch can only be considered a good value when these items are also used for other components such as a tX-USBultra or sMS-200ultra. While the Aqvox SE switch appears to be a better standalone value at 798 Euros (or nearly $1k USD), I have not yet heard this switch and so I can't really render an opinion but at only $659 for The Linear Solution switch, this switch will be tough to beat.

 

Within a few month's time, hopefully, we'll have a new switch from Uptone Audio and SOtM (which will be unique as this switch will include both RJ-45 and SFP ports) to evaluate but I am convinced that streaming from a NAS or from Tidal need not be inferior to local playback.

 

http://thelinearsolution.com/ocxo_usb3.html

 

Their USB card, Ethernet card, and router etc. should share the same $55 OCXO clock

 

http://www.conwin.com/datasheets/cx/cx259.pdf

http://www.conwin.com/product_locator.html?ModelFam=Oscillators&ProdType=OCXO&Recommended=Y&Pkg=14 Pin DIP

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/connor-winfield/OH4610LF-025.0M/CW899-ND/5641634

[seeteeyou]

Just found more details about that impressive mod for Oppo UDP-205 below

 

http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=39919&start=45

 

25MHz TCXO here

 

http://www.foxonline.com/pdfs/fox924.pdf

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/fox-electronics/FOX924B-25.000/631-1074-1-ND/1024779

 

27MHz OCXO here

 

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/english/product/product_ocxo.html

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/korean/product/pdfs/ocxo_sboc_25_sine.pdf

 

The clocks cables that were going between boths PCBs didn't seem to be all that special, and then the clocks themselves could be replaced by even better ones. Of course we should also power both clocks directly with LT3045 or LPS-1.2 etc.

[seeteeyou]

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38595-the-new-generation-ultracap-lps-12-user-impressions-and-questions-thread/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-798083

45 minutes ago, Superdad said:

You might want to sit tight on the "audiophile Ethernet switch" thing for a few months.  Were are working on something (yes a switch, but from the ground up, not a modification of anything) but we are not ready to discuss the details.  As usual for UpTone, it will be radically different, very effective, and a great value.  

 

Suddenly we've got so many options, though it's still somewhat tricky to find an Ethernet cards that's even better than the ones available from JCAT / Paul Pang / The Linear Solution etc.

[seeteeyou]

42 minutes ago, Ben2300 said:

So now you got me wonder how much the clock cost inside the sotm sclk-ex. Should be easy to find out.

 

We could take a look at this picture below but it ain't all that obvious, we wouldn't be able to see any model numbers and such. (Maybe it's something proprietary?)

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=140&tab=comments#comment-718504

 

The value of sCLK-EX really is more about its flexibility since we could specify a corresponding frequency for each tap. OTOH, we could only get a fixed frequency from those TCXO / OCXO clocks etc.

[seeteeyou]

On 1/31/2018 at 1:46 PM, seeteeyou said:

 

Thanks @austinpop.

 

I really dunno very much about 50 Ω cables at the moment, maybe here's a little rundown of what I've been learning so far.

 

First of all, it's just easier to break everything down into two categories, obviously there's one for the audiophile market and then another for the pro market.

 

Regarding the audiophile market, most likely we could only find a dozen choices or so. The price range would go anywhere from mere-mortal-level to @romaz-level ($6.5K) as shown below

 

http://rubi2947.blog.jp/archives/7363072.html

http://www.ojispecial.jp/products/8128xbnc.html

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/miyajimusic/ka-r-062017-wa01/

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_osa01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_shin01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_masa01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_mura01.html

https://www.thecableco.com/venom-s-pdif-5301.html

https://www.thecableco.com/sigma-clock-50.html

http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21744272134793

https://almaaudio.com/collections/evolution-acoustics/products/evolution-acoustics-bnc-link-cables

 

Unlike 75 Ω coaxial cables. they weren't making 50 Ω ones for 4K UHD resolutions (i.e. 11.88 Gbps or 12 GHz) and therefore we could only pick something that's thick enough to achieve "exceptional" nominal attenuation.

 

Now let's take a quick look at the comparison between 75 Ω ones and 50 Ω ones (pick either link below and it's quicker to load the 1st one)

 

http://www.canare.co.jp/en/24A/Canare24A_Cables.pdf#page=20

http://www.canare.co.jp/cat/cont/canare_eng/canare_eng.pdf#page=69

 

Focus on 10 MHz for now and we'll see the differences. Obviously L-8CHD should be the winner (1.2 dB/100m) due to its "insane" thickness @ 11.1 mm OD while L-5DFB was simply gathering dust @ 2.5 dB/100m just because Canare never made any kinda "nutty" 50 Ω cables.

 

http://www.canare.co.jp/en/24A/Canare24A_Cables.pdf#page=18

http://www.canare.co.jp/cat/cont/canare_eng/canare_eng.pdf#page=67

 

Of course we could still look somewhere else and it's fairly easy to find 50 Ω Fujikura 8D-FB @ 11.1 mm OD

 

http://www.aru-densen.jp/html/page8.html

http://www.fujimusen.com/coaxial/index.html

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/musenkiya/8dfb10m/

https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110500112930/?HissuCode=8D-FB-10

http://www.caledonian-cables.co.uk/Coaxia_Cable/50Ohm RF/8D-FB.html

http://www.caledonian-cables.com/product/Coaxial Cables/50Ohm RF Coaxial Cables/8D-FB.htm

 

Here are some 50 Ω BNC plugs that will be good for 8D-FB

 

To-Conne BNCP-8

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/tiyotoku/bncp-8/

http://www.to-conne.co.jp/connector/c_products/bnc/plugs/

http://www.to-conne.co.jp/connector/c_products/bnc/plugs/BNCP-8.pdf

 

Almic BNC-P-8D

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-treevillage/bnc-p-8d/

http://www.almic.net/product/download/BNC_catalog.pdf

 

Amphenol RF 6775

https://www.amphenolrf.com/000-6775.html

https://octopart.com/000-6775-75-amphenol+rf-49742146

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Amphenol PDFs/BNC_Catalog.pdf#page=5

 

If we weren't big fans of Fujikura, there's also Belden 9913 in addition to 7810A as I mentioned below

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31857-mutec-ref-10-masterclock/?page=24&tab=comments#comment-773291

 

Of course we could also go totally crazy with 12D-FB @ 15.6 mm OD but so far I haven't seen any kinda 50 Ω BNC plugs that could accommodate coaxial cables with that kinda thickness

 

http://www.caledonian-cables.co.uk/Coaxia_Cable/50Ohm RF/12D-FB.html

http://www.caledonian-cables.com/product/Coaxial Cables/50Ohm RF Coaxial Cables/12D-FB.htm

 

Finally we've gotta thank @d_elm for pointing out that Pasternack also made some 50 Ω cables with impressive numbers that looked good (at least?) on paper

 

https://www.pasternack.com/semirigid-0.250-50-ohm-coax-cable-tinned-aluminum-pe-sr401al-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE-SR401AL.pdf#page=2

 

It really does cost quite a bit @ $21.16 per foot but fortunately clock cables should be kept as short as we could manage to, and then its 6.35 mm OD should be an advantage as well.

 

BTW, they also have something thicker and even more expensive as follows

 

10.92 mm OD @ $31.94 per foot
https://www.pasternack.com/flexible-0.430-rg225-50-ohm-coax-cable-ptfe-fr-jacket-rg225-u-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/RG225-U.pdf

 

10.16 mm OD @ $39.81 per foot
https://www.pasternack.com/semirigid-0.118-50-ohm-coax-cable-copper-pe-118sr-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE-118SR.pdf#page=2

 

Yet another 50 Ω clock cable from Japan

 

https://atlasaudio.jp/products/detail/903

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1113478.html

https://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/201803/26/19588.html

 

[seeteeyou]

I wish that's just nothing more than April's Fool but apparently it's Con Te Partirò for real this time

 

https://www.oppodigital.com/farewell.aspx

 

Oppo Shock: Popular AV Brand Announces That 'It's Time To Say Goodbye'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/04/02/oppo-shock-popular-av-brand-announces-that-its-time-to-say-goodbye/

 

Oppo Digital Pulls The Plug, Interdyn Already Planning Ahead

https://www.channelnews.com.au/oppo-digital-pulls-the-plug-interdyn-already-planning-ahead/

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

You better hurry up and buy yours. 

 

Let's look at the bright side, we still have Cambridge Audio CXUHD if Roon weren't a necessity.

[seeteeyou]

On 4/7/2018 at 12:01 AM, rafa said:

Is anyone tried to build own 10MHz WCLK? 

 

There are some not so expensive Abracon OCXO 10MHz 2-5PPB oscillators on the market. With good quality PSU it could be something maybe worth to test?

 

Well, I learned something new from reading this post by @romaz and maybe the question is more like this - why don't we go for an OCXO system clock directly (provided that we're able to source an OCXO with the right frequency) instead of resorting to 10MHz reference clock with a significant degradation?

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-79#post-14120317

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One of the things I learned about the REF10 is that Mutec's published phase noise measurements were taken from the BNC output and not from the clock itself and so comparing the phase noise plots of REF10 to another external master clock may not be a true apples to apples comparison and this highlights my point. I predict that by the time the clock signal goes through whatever length clock cable you use to connect the REF10 to something like the sCLK-EX board in my tX-USBultra and by the time that clock signal reaches the USB hub in my tX-USBultra, that signal may have become significantly degraded and so this is the potential benefit of physically placing a good clock in the same location as the old clock.

 

Before sCLK-EX was introduced, we could only find a very limited number of components with 10MHz clock inputs by default. Now we do have an option to modify anything with sCLK-EX ourselves or pay SOtM to do that for non-audio devices. However, the clocks inside sCLK-EX itself will be disabled once we sync them with 10MHz reference clock and therefore we might wanna ask ourselves how could we pay so much for those relatively expensive clocks in the first place when we aren't really using them? On top of that, we're also paying for a REALLY expensive 10MHz reference clock while it's inevitable that signal is gonna be degraded significantly as mentioned above.

 

Anyways, the improvement is still there and it ain't even a subtle difference for sure. Though part of it might simply owe to the fact that most system clocks should be pretty lousy to begin with.

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, Hauser said:

This is what I have been thinking for some time now too.  Should it not be asked of SOTM, why they don't offer a TX USB with a direct connected 10MHz clock to the card rather than selling expensive upgrade clocks, making the previous ones redundant and adding more and more boxes and cables?

 

Martin.

 

I wish that's so simple but tX-USBultra can't work with 10MHz reference clock directly. It does require 12MHz system clock (that's why it's shipped with sCLK-EX12 in the first place) and 10MHz reference clock is optional.

 

Regarding sCLK-EX, once again those 50Ω RF cables terminated with tiny little U.FL connectors might happen to be the weakest link. For now we could get the ones from Digi-Key etc. while "much better" ones might not be available unless we're willing to cut those expensive 50Ω clock cables up ourselves. Of course we're assuming they're thin enough for U.FL connectors to begin with.

[seeteeyou]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I started to respond to this, then paused and said to myself: "This feels like deja vu." And no wonder.  Here's my own post from a couple of months ago. See if this makes sense.

 

 

 

It's even more striking when that $659 The Linear Solution OCXO switch (with $55 Connor-Winfield OH4610LF-025.0M) turned out to sound as good as modified D-Link 5-port switch powered by sCLK-EX + Mutec REF 10 + Paul Hynes SR7 combo

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117902

 

Heck, the clock cable (i.e. €700 Habst 5N Cryo) alone would cost more than The Linear Solution switch itself. What's going on?

[seeteeyou]

For those of us who don't need ultra low impedance outputs for driving speakers directly, PS Audio DirectStream DAC with RedCloud could be hard to beat for its roughly 3K used prices

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-213

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FYI, a PSAudio DirectStream DAC (RedCloud 131) when fully burned in comes awfully close to a BluDave. No, i don't have both in-house for AB comparison but I own a DS and have heard BluDave at length to make a reasonable judgement. Others here have posted similar comments.

 

Quote

I have both and prefer PSA with Redcloud.

 

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I own both and love both but the PSA DS Dac is better.

 

Quote

Imagine that,I own both as well and although I LOVE the PS Audio and think it is wonderful for the price it isnt in the same league as Dave/Blu2 nor should it seeing as it is 25% of the cost!

 

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You have your opinion, I have mine.

 

DirectStream might have an edge if we're feeding its I2S input with a spectacular source. We could also replace its Crystek CVHD-957-22.57920 with something like Pulsar Clock or Neutron Star 2 etc.

[seeteeyou]

Thankfully we could get 5A with LT3045 now, and it shouldn't cost that much since even 10 pieces of LT3045 wouldn't be too expensive to begin with

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30634-the-true-experimental-tweak-thread/?page=170&tab=comments#comment-800499

 

Not to mention that we could hook 2 pieces of them up in series.

[seeteeyou]

10 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I decided to swap out the silver DC cable powering my sMS-200ultra for a copper cable, and I have now toned down the HF glare considerably.  I need to spend more time evaluating before making a definitive judgment.

 

As usual clocks are super sensitive to the source of power, any kinda changes in PSU / cables etc. should bring us noticeably different results.

 

16 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I finally received my sCLK-OCX10 yesterday along with a pair of dCBL-BNC cables.  I bought the cables based on my positive experience with the dCBL-CAT7 and dCBL-UF silver USB cables.

 

There we go then, SOtM still didn't learn their lessons after all these years.

 

The length of an Ethernet cable should be no biggie. Pretty much the same deal with USB cables unless we're going beyond 5 meters.

 

Now it's a very different story for both I2S cables and clock cables. The length is mission critical and who knows why SOtM would sell dCBL-BNC with 1.0m as the minimum?

 

@romaz was getting great results with 0.5m Habst so that's half of what we're getting from SOtM. Not to mention how they also happened to mess things up like this before

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=147&tab=comments#comment-722848

On 9/25/2017 at 2:55 AM, romaz said:

As a further example of how important this is, I have been testing clock cables of various price points and length.  Using various inexpensive DigiKey clock cables from the same manufacturer of various lengths, as you go from 20 to 40 cm in cable length, the SQ degradation is clearly audible.  This is why I had to send my gear back to SOtM.  Because they didn't have the really short clock cables in stock, they ended up using much longer clock cables in my build which I ultimately deemed as unacceptable.

 

This is getting old but I really had a great laugh myself when I saw this

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=300&tab=comments#comment-803814

On 4/7/2018 at 1:24 AM, auricgoldfinger said:

This will be my 3rd unit because SOtM has screwed up my order twice!

 

[seeteeyou]

4 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

This is interesting:

Why is 1.5m the ideal length for a RCA/BNC digital cable?

 

Geez, they're talking about coaxial cables for S/PDIF but we're dealing with clock cables. Definitely apples to oranges.

[seeteeyou]

Great explanation about the importance of quality system clocks, especially the part about contamination. However, it's still tricky to understand why that $659 The Linear Solution OCXO switch with $55 Connor-Winfield OH4610LF-025.0M would sound as good as modified D-Link switch powered by the sCLK-EX + Mutec REF 10 + Paul Hynes SR7 combo

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-please-dont-ask-too-many-questions-yet/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-806264

5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

A commonly held belief is that the phase noise (ie jitter) of these clocks in the DAC are what is important, so designers spend money to get low phase noise oscillators for DACs. The flip side of this is the belief that no other clock any where in the data chain is important, so cheap high phase noise oscillators are used for the USB receiver, Ethernet chip, etc.

 

Recent study is starting to show that this is not the case, the phase noise from other clocks can overlay the noise from the local clock. Thus phase noise form other clocks can contaminate the local clock. Even if this "bleed through" is small, the phase noise from devices such as consumer switches and routers is many orders of magnitude higher than that of really low phase noise oscillators used in better DACs. The result is that you are not getting what you paid for in that DAC. In order for the DAC to sound as good as it should, this clock contamination needs to be dealt with.

 

That's what this switch does, it has a very low phase noise oscillator to clock out the symbols onto the cable and special circuitry that prevents phase noise on the incoming packets from contaminating THAT clock.

 

John S.

 

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, justubes said:

Would'nt an ocxo providing the required frequency be still better than a low phase 10m ocxo to discipline an average phase noise vcxo?  

 

The required audio clocking frequencies(24m/45m etc.) phase noise  are normally much higher thanfrequencies at 10m

 

I would think an ocxo directly feeding any chip will still come up tops.

 

Even if that were true, those of us who already invested in sCLK-EX plus another $3000+ reference clock wouldn't really care about any of that.

 

Once again let's do the math, round trip shipping to and from SOtM. Less than $100 for D-Link switch. $700 and up for sCLK-EX. $3,595 for Mutec REF 10. €700 for Habst 5N Cryo. Add a few hundreds for one rail from Paul Hynes SR7. Of course we'll also need something decent to power that D-Link switch and sCLK-EX.

 

All of a sudden @romaz reported that $659 The Linear Solution OCXO switch (with $55 Connor-Winfield OH4610LF-025.0M) would actually sound as good as everything listed above. We're "only" talking about 25MHz OCXO with ±10ppb here. Even ±3ppb ones (e.g. that OCXO inside Innuos ZENith Statement) wouldn't cost too much to begin with

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/crystals-oscillators-resonators/oscillators/172?pv253=118

[seeteeyou]

The Double Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillator: When to Use it

http://blog.bliley.com/the-double-oven-controlled-crystal-oscillator-when-to-use-it

 

Ultra-stable OCXO using dual-mode crystal oscillator - IEEE Xplore

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/887400/

 

Now I wonder how much this DOCXO with ±0.2ppb would actually cost, it only goes anywhere from 4MHz to 15MHz so basically only 12MHz would be useful for USB 2.0 (likely that system clock inside tX-USBultra)

 

https://www.vectron.com/products/ocxo/dx-040.htm

[seeteeyou]

Here's yet another discovery about passive (i.e. anywhere between 5V to 48V will pass right through) PoE, stuff like that and LT3045 should be a match made in heaven

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9030#p9030

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Set-Pairs-Power-Over-Ethernet-Passive-POE-Injector-Splitter-Adapter-Cable-Kit/282049940669

 

Only a dollar or so (3.08 RMB to 6.66 RMB)

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=553920538613

 

They've got both naked and clothed ones so we should have everything covered

 

https://szxlydz.taobao.com

[seeteeyou]

Finally, they've got 8 pieces of LT3045 for two rails. 4 of them for each rail so we're getting 2A from either output

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-200w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html