A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[dminches]

For Apacer, is "industrial" the same as "wide temperature?"

 

I am currently running a Xeon-based server with the normal temperature Apacer ECC ram but will soon be trying out the wide temperature ram.

 

[dminches]

7 minutes ago, Energy said:

Powering the M2 on the other hand with a 3.3V seems less likely as its attached to the motherboard.

 

Is there a sound advantage to using a PCI card for the M2 as opposed to putting it in the M2 slot on the motherboard?

 

[dminches]

31 minutes ago, Energy said:

 

PCI card to M2 risers make for a longer signal path and relies on two contact points of insertion.

M2 directly connected to the motherboard should sound better unless the chip that controls the PCI-E Gen 3/4 was put closer to the PCI-E card slots and doesn't have to go through the various PCB layers and noise upon reaching the M2 slot, but given multi-layer PCB motherboard designs and proper routing this shouldn't pose a problem.

 

At this point a riser card could be comparable to running an SSD over SATA cable, but in a lesser degree. It's more favorable to use a PCI-E to M2 because the distance isn't nearly as long as with making SATA connections (data/power). But one thing to note that can influence sound quality between the two is the power going into the PCI-E lanes loop through the motherboard (potentially picking up noise) opposed to power coming directly from the ATX PSU and into the SATA drive.

 

I should have phrased my question better.  Is using an Optane PCIe instead of an Optane M.2 preferable? It seems like @Iving does this.

 

[dminches]

1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

Definitely!

 

But it's a NUC issue. I have ethernet playback and my PC isn't a NUC. (I keep watching this thread!)

 

I am not sure what you mean "it is a NUC issue."

 

I am running Roon server on a PC with a Supermicro mobo and Xeon E-2124G CPU.  Apacer RAM. Sonore ultraRendu endpoint.

 

 

[dminches]

1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

sorry - just edited my post - it's about full height cases, nofan cooling for CPU, mobos with sufficient CPU-direct lanes etc - and my system is not USB it's Dante so I need/value a CPU-direct PCIe ethernet card ...

 

I don't know what Dante is but I get your point.

 

I am not using any of the PCIe lanes since I am using the onboard ethernet controller.  Thus, I could use the Optane but I would need a ribbon cable since I am using a Streacom FC10 case.

 

[dminches]

Just now, Iving said:

 

Mine is a Streacom F12C

Is the FC10 tall enough I wonder

 

it isn't.  I would have to mount it sideways and use a ribbon cable to connect it to the PCIe connector.  I have done that in the past when I used a USB card.

 

[dminches]

I currently have an Optane M.2.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1392905-REG/intel_mempek1j032ga01_optane_32gb_ssd_pci.html

 

I was comparing it to:

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1392630-REG/intel_ssdped1d280gasx_optane_900p_280_gb.html

 

[dminches]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

The point about DC cabling is very valid. I also used Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 18AWG DC (JSSG360) cabling from Ghent:

 

Is JSSG360 Ghent Audio's model or is that a particular general DC cable?

 

[dminches]

I have been using Streacom's FC10 but I really want to get away from using adapters for cards such as the jcat network.  I just don't know what to use.

 

[dminches]

10 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

The Streacom FC9 Alpha is also my prefered case.

However, the HDPLEX H5 2nd Gen comes with an additional back plate that supports 7 vertical PCIe slots. It also seems like it might perform just a little better with the CPU cooling than the FC9.

I am planning to try it in my next build. 

 

 

My issue with the HDPlex case is that I like using Supermicro motherboards and I don’t think there is enough clearance to pass over the DIMMs.  I like using the riser with the FC10 (and FC9).

 

[dminches]

I just got my 800W DC-ATX and will be powering it with an HDPlex 400W LPS.

 

[dminches]

1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

I am not sure I understood the question correctly. The HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter has two DC inputs, which are fueled with 19V by two Keces P8. The 800W DA-ATX deliver two rails on 8PIN EATX-12V connectors and one rail on 24PIN EATXPWR connector.

 

He is asking if one power supply is being used to power the motherboard and the other is being used to power the CPU.

 

I think the answer is yes and no since one PS is being used to power Group 1 which includes the motherboard and 1/2 of the CPU power while group 2 is powered by a 2nd PS and that is power the other half of the CPU.

 

[dminches]

How come you split the powering of the CPU between group 1 and 2?

 

[dminches]

1 minute ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

The main power is required for CPU.

 

2 x EATX12V from two Keces means double and more stable power.

 

Are you saying that you can’t power the CPU from either group 1 or group 2 alone?  

 

I think I am confused.

[dminches]

14 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

I wish someone can compare your configuration vs. one P8 connected to group 1 on the HDPlex and the other P8 connected directly to the EPS. But you would need the second P8 to be 12V. 

We benefit from more available power, but we also benefit from separating rails. And especially the CPU / EPS has a big advantage to be separated. You have increased the available power to the CPU but I believe the two EPS connectors are paralleled on the motherboard, which means that noise from the CPU goes to the ATX and noise from the ATX goes to the CPU.

 

 

I thought this could be accomplished by running the ATX off group 1 and the CPU off group 2.

 

[dminches]

I have been ordering Apacer memory directly from the Apacer.  This way I know I am getting the right memory.

 

[dminches]

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

I may need some extra ram for my NUC to get Euphony ramroot working, do you have a link for this direct ordering from Apacer? Thanks

 

The woman from whom I have been ordering is Grace Wong.  [email protected]

 

 

[dminches]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, please publish your findings here when you get them, along with build details and the exact workload (OS, music player, if HQP - what settings) you used. One useful piece of info that will be useful to others will be the relative consumption between ATX and EPS (CPU). 

 

 

Sorry for the simple question but can you explain why you are distinguishing between ATX and EPS?  Can't they both be power from either an ATX PS or LPS plus regulators?  I am just trying to catch up on the lingo and distinction.

 

TIA.

 

[dminches]

16 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

That's good news. My HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply went up in smoke after only three months.

 

By the way, I still don't have my HDPLEX 200W back. There seem to be big problems with HDPLEX. Too bad, because I generally like the products.

 

My 800W DC-ATX arrived DOA 😪.

[dminches]

7 hours ago, davide256 said:

You will be disappointed with the Allo route. I've used RPI 3, Allo USBridge/Digione, they could approach a microRendu in SQ with good PS but the cheaper hardware limited how clean the sound was. Discovering NUC/Audiolinux was transformative, just left the microRendu in the dust for depth of detail.  On the NUC route I've

evolved from Pentium to I3 to I7 using Uptone Audio PS's and each step up in processor for endpoint improved resolution even with the low CPU utilization of PCM playback. My only regret on the NUC side is lack of a PCIE slot for a dedicated USB card .I've replaced USB out power from the NUC with 5v from an LPS 1.2

which was a significant SQ gain but suspect that the HW quality of the "comes with" USB ports have some penalties for audio

 

Is it your opinion that a purpose built PC used as an endpoint will outperform the Sonore endpoints?  If so, is this software dependent as well?  I was thing of using my prior music server (Supermicro/Xeon CPU/Apacer ram/jcat USB) to run roon bridge.  Currently the PC is configured to run Win server 2019 and audiophile optimizer.

 

 

[dminches]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

1. Passive cooling case for the extended ATX size motherboard. Turemetal UP10 is the only suitable case I know. Expensive but there is a solution.

 

 

The ASUS mobo is too large for the UP10.  I spoke to the people there and this is what they said:

 

The motherboard cannot be larger than 305x290mm, 

but the motherboard you  have choosen is 305x330mm, so you can only change to a smaller size.

 

[dminches]

46 minutes ago, RickyV said:

With DIY we can only do so much, we can buy sr-7’s for every individual rail, we can buy apacer wt ram etc. But what Taiko does is probably more. The ram they use we can not buy. The mobo is it standard or is it modified for Taiko? Then there is the s.w. Taiko programs the two CPU’s as a server and endpoint configuration, can we do that? They probably have measured all sorts of latency, EMI an noise levels we can not do.

The only thing we can do is buy the best parts we can get our hands on and build pc’s. But maybe we have come to a point where that is not enough anymore and have to start measuring (or something).

Nevertheless Taiko is probably out of reach, DIY is fun and some take it to the extreem. So go for it @Nenon 👏 

 

I think your comments are spot on.  I really don't think that the Extreme is an attainable goal for a DIYer.  It would be like watching a bunch of golfing videos, going to the driving range and hoping to play like Tiger Woods.  However, I do think that DIYers can better many of the commercial products for a fraction of the cost.

 

[dminches]

Very interesting.  I have never looked at my motherboard’s block diagram.  According to the one in the Supermicro manual both PCIE slots are CPU-direct.  The M.2 slots go directly to to the Intel C246 chipsets.

 

[dminches]

Have you picked a case that will fit the ASUS sage mobo?

 

[dminches]

6 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Planning to use both heatsinks, one for each CPU. 

 

Why is liquid cooling shunned upon if the power supplies are external to the case?  Is the vibration of the liquid and radiator fans problematic?