New Amarra 4

[GregWormald]

My take is that both you (ddalmas--(caio!)) and DancingSea are correct .

If great data management was easy there would be many audio players that had fine library management--and there are not. Even Apple gets it wrong with iTunes sometimes.

 

At the same time, a number of us here have suggested to Sonic Studio that playlist management similiar to that of A3 in co-ordination with iTunes would be satisfactory--at least in the short term.

 

For me, I'm willing to put up with some "bugs" in order to get the improved sound quality over A3, as frustrating as they are (instability, poor indexing, incomplete meta-data reading, database read errors, etc.). Given the time taken from other rewarding activities in order to do good comparisons I have not re-done the auditory comparisons that I did that had me choose A3 over Audirvana and a number of other players, and would prefer not to undertake that task. The music is too important to me.

 

I have made my position clear to SS a number of times but a solution has not appeared as yet. I sure hope it does.

 

Greg

 

[ddalmas]

correct man!! you are perfectly in the good side with your reply! believe A4 is ,regarding as it sounds,a step higher that all the others (A3 included)i am only angry for the many bugs left in the last release, every of them could be accepted waiting for further improvements ,but the simple management of A3 missing NO ....decisely NO!!! Hoping that Mr John decides to fill this gap makes me more  and more angry because i listen daily to my music!

thks for you fine reply anyway

[ddalmas]

and if you do not put fire to SS developers it could happen that they think that all is OK like this!please everybody helps all the users to have  a great player simply filling SS support of requests to implement these simple functions

thks ciao again

[Melvin]

I think what's annoyed me most about 4.0 involves a business decision Sonic Studio obviously made. Windows. Yes, there is much money to be made by building/porting their exclusive Mac software, but it seemed they chose to ignore their core clients. I spent A LOT of money on Amarra Symphony w/iRC, Amarra SQ+, and Amarra 4 Tidal all the while hoping they would work the extreme bugginess out of their products. I love the Amarra sound and truly hoped after such a long time coming 4.0 would be stable and modern. Instead, we get the usual crashes and library issues AND we find out after all the promises of refinement and stability, they were doing a Windows version. How about all of us who have been loyal and patient (well, not so much)? Windows? Please don't misunderstand me, I have no issue with Sonic doing business as they see fit and hope they have continued success. This just smells rotten to me.

 

[6rs]

2 hours ago, Melvin said:

they were doing a Windows version

 

 

Now I am confused. I have a Mac and Amarra 4 runs ok without Parallels or other Windows-emulating software? 

[Melvin]

11 minutes ago, 6rs said:

Now I am confused. I have a Mac and Amarra 4 runs ok without Parallels or other Windows-emulating software? 

 

It's now cross-platform. Instead of just fixing their previous Mac-only software they rebuilt it and it's still a buggy mess. Perhaps if they simply stuck with the Mac platform and perfected that first ... oh, never mind. Futile. 

 

Sorry guys, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I won't post anymore negativity. Enjoy the good sound. 

[ddalmas]

That they do a widows version it is correct in commercial terms but i highly agree with the fact that before of all serious developers certainly make all their best to do a good stable and easy to use software!! this didn't happened with Sonic Studio developers !!!!! Anyone  who still wants to defense them cannot contest this!!! this the reason to be angry with them!! i hope this forum will arrive to their ears,i obviously mean Sonic Studio developers.

if i 'd be  the owner of a software enterprise i 'd be more careful to user's satisfaction!!! but ...with clear evidence not everyone thinks in the same way in the world

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, ddalmas said:

That they do a widows version it is correct in commercial terms but i highly agree with the fact that before of all serious developers certainly make all their best to do a good stable and easy to use software!! this didn't happened with Sonic Studio developers !!!!! Anyone  who still wants to defense them cannot contest this!!! this the reason to be angry with them!! i hope this forum will arrive to their ears,i obviously mean Sonic Studio developers.

if i 'd be  the owner of a software enterprise i 'd be more careful to user's satisfaction!!! but ...with clear evidence not everyone thinks in the same way in the world

 

You will be pleased to know that Sonic Studios does monitor these forums and are likely keeping track of this thread.  Its equally unlikely they are going to significantly revamp their library system any time soon, or at all, based upon your reasonable displeasure.  They are busy getting Luxe together, for better or worse.

 

You expressed concern over your psychological well being in relations to use of A4.  As the saying goes, peace comes from within.  Amarra has a very long track record of bugs, complaints, and dissatisfaction - if not outrage - by people on this forum.  Do a forum search, you'll find piles of complaints across many years.  As a beta tester, I've sent my own list of complaints as well.

 

Amarra 4, while not perfect, is more stable than other version.  The peace comes in accepting Amarra 4 for what it is, and Sonic Studios for how it is.  I've made the transition from upset customer to "ok, that's just how its going to be."  By doing so, my enjoyment of A4 has greatly increased as I've let go of expecting the library management to be anything other than what it is, and instead focusing on the remarkable sound quality and welcome stability vs previous incarnations.

 

Giving Sonic Studios control over your psychological well being can only lead to a self created misery.

[GregWormald]

6 hours ago, DancingSea said:

<snip>

 

Yes.

[foodfiend]

Totally agree with DancingSea about what he said! Like I have mentioned before, none of us were strong-armed into buying this piece of software, and we have every right to move away to another product.

 

I am sure Sonic Studio for all their failings, is still trying to make a product that as many people will like. They are in the business to make money (sell as many licenses as possible), rather than dish out agony (even if it seems the other way). If what they do is so terrible that no one buys their software, they would have to retire Amarra. This is a fact of business. The fact that it still exists, and is still being developed, means that Sonic Studio still believes that there is still money to be made. By the same token, I am sure they do look at major audiophile forums like CA to gauge what the buying public think.

 

Yes, all energy now is being focused on Luxe (for good or ill - only time will tell). I suspect that the problems with library management in A4 are also too major that it is not going to be a minor patch that will solve it. Rather, I believe that Sonic Studio would have to do a significant rework on this part of the software before it is actually workable.

 

So, if library management is so important to you, I would suggest (for your personal mental health), to move to another product, at least in the interim. Otherwise, like DancingSea says, take it as an idiosyncrasy of the software, accept it, and keep enjoying the music. I have also found that position, and am still trying to load my entire library of music to A4. Yes, I am upset that this process is fraught with difficulty, but I still enjoy and value the playback of music. That is why I keep coming back to A4 (and yes, I also have A+, but A4 is the software I choose to use).

[ddalmas]

thks to all you guys i greatly appreciate all your comments! It is a growth for we all! everyone is its position towards the evident problems of A4 and this is correct.One more question :is there someone that has a large album library, about 3000 albums i mean, well.... please could he tell to me how to deal with the  search of its albums, assuming that in the main screen only 18 albums together could be seen, and keeping in mind that amongst all that music you have not always you know exactly what you wanna listen to in a particular moment or state on mind. I surely will be pleased to learn a good way to use A4,but i haven't found a good method since now

many thks 

ciao

[GregWormald]

Ciao ddalmas, comme va?

 

I have just over 3000 albums by 900 artists.

 

I use iTunes on a Mac, all music is in the Music folder within the iTunes media folder and on a remote hard drive.

 

A4 doesn't seem to read the iTunes database well for me, so I choose the iTunes Music folder with A4 and then "Scan for Music" and leave the computer running overnight to finish its work. I think it takes in excess of 3 hours for this task but I don't know for sure--I gave up waiting!

 

When I have made substantial changes to iTunes I "Clear Songs" (waiting for that to finish--it's not a short wait) then re-start the computer and "Scan for Music" again.

All of my decisions about playing music and meta data changes are made in iTunes (I nearly always choose by artist.) If the album I choose isn't immediately visible in A4 Artists (somewhat unusual) then a search for the album nearly always finds it--although very occasionally it takes 2 searches.

 

**Note that all groups with a "The" at the start are filed under "The" and too many albums are under "Various Artists"--whether they have two or more artists or not. The database for "Albums" appears to be irretrievably broken, and I don't use it at all (I never used it in iTunes either, so that's not a big deal for me.)

 

When A4 re-starts it takes a multitude of minutes to actually read its own catalogue--this only shows up when I refresh the artists and the count goes from 102 to 909--wait for it.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Greg

 

p.s. The alternative is DancingSea's: He loads the chosen music into a separate folder, chooses that folder and then scans it. He clears songs after each session. (I tried this but the copy/scan/clear/delete was too much for me. I guess you could also choose the individual album folder and then just scan that, but again, with 900 folders that proved to be too much scrolling for me.)

[DancingSea]

49 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

p.s. The alternative is DancingSea's: He loads the chosen music into a separate folder, chooses that folder and then scans it. He clears songs after each session. (I tried this but the copy/scan/clear/delete was too much for me. I guess you could also choose the individual album folder and then just scan that, but again, with 900 folders that proved to be too much scrolling for me.)

 

With my method, I keep it under 1000 songs per load.  Often just a few CD's/albums.  This seems to please Amarra's feeble brain, keeping things snappy.  I use iTunes for all library management, meta data, ratings, playlists etc etc.  The dragging to folder/ scanning process always takes less than a minute.  But the main reason for doing it this way is to avoid A4's meager playlist engine.  The A4 library becomes the playlist for each evening.  Another reason is that I rely heavily on song ratings, and none of the 3rd party apps import iTunes ratings.  I don't want to listen to every song on an album, just the good songs - all diggity dank with no schwag - so to speak.

 

I do miss iTune's "play next" and "add to next" feature.

 

I think of Amarra 4 as a sonic savant that is certifiably rain man in most other regards.  A special needs child that is really good at one things, and one thing only - who otherwise doesn't know what day it is.

[foodfiend]

I have had similar problems with A4 reading my iTunes database. Hell, it even crashes when I try to get it to Scan for Music on my HDD that contains all the music! Guess that is because I have 100k + tracks in my collection, plus they are in various languages including Asian languages.

 

I find A4 very temperamental, since it can crash while "scanning and saving tracks for 5 artistes (I use the iTunes filing of Artiste/Album/Tracks)", but can be okay with "scanning and saving" each individually. Sometimes, it is crashes when I "scan and save" for one artiste, but is okay if I go "scan and save" album by album! I totally do not understand the reason for these crashes, but I am soldiering on. Am up to 97k + tracks, 6.7k + albums and 1.3k + artistes at the moment. Progress means that I hope to finally get my entire library on to A4, even if it means a bit at a time. So, when it comes to frustration, I do feel you.

[6rs]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

With my method, I keep it under 1000 songs per load.  Often just a few CD's/albums.  This seems to please Amarra's feeble brain, keeping things snappy.  I use iTunes for all library management, meta data, ratings, playlists etc 

I think of Amarra 4 as a sonic savant that is certifiably rain man in most other regards.  A special needs child that is really good at one things, and one thing only - who otherwise doesn't know what day it is.

2

Good strategy and I agree with your view that Amarra is an "idiot savant":-) 

[ddalmas]

i thank you all for your replies and suggestions....but no one has told the flcs cannot be playlists in iTunes as iTunes does not deal with flac files....so how to manage from iTunes??and as you have written in your posts even if imported from iTunes A4 crashes overtime it wants wasting your time spent in waiting for its scanning and whatsoelse it wants!! Isn't this frustrating?if for someone it is not..... well i admire his solid nerves because mine are greatly less solid

ciao ciao to every one

[copy_of_a]

I don't get how people justify the total lack of anything an audiophile player should provide nowadays. Audirvana perfectly shows that it is very well possible to code a decent and fast library system with decent search options in a player that also provides sophisticated settings, high quality upsampling, DSD upsampling, dithered volume control, integer mode, hog mode and you name it... and that dorsn't crash. Designed by a single person for almost the same price.
Amarra 4 doesn't play from RAM, doesn't provide hog mode, doesn't provide dithered volume control ... let alone PCM or DSD upsampling. It sounds very good... but still it lacks the most basic features an "audiophile" player should be equipped with.

 

[foodfiend]

4 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

I don't get how people justify the total lack of anything an audiophile player should provide nowadays.

That is where personal preference and UX is so subjective. To someone, a bare-bones software with rudimentary library management that sounds good trumps another with more features but sounds less engaging. Others are ready to let the sound slip a bit for better library management or another feature.

 

In a sense, the developers are trying a balance that they feel defines how music replay is best done. The likes of Sonic Studios and Audiofile Engineering have a background in mastering and recording, and that may direct their focus in a different angle. Not everyone may be a fan of this, and that is fine by them.

[6rs]

Right, I will go the extra mile for the magical Amarra 4 sound. Using Chord's Hugo (soon Hugo2) dac, I have no need for upsampling or dithered volume control features. However, I absolutely need the implementation of Dirac's correction software, so the focus on Amarra Luxe suits my preferences.

Amarra 4 runs much more stable on my Mac compared to version 3, especially with huge 192/24 files. 

[ddalmas]

hi people....i was a recording studio owner too(48 analog tracks at the times that means 2 24 try recorders linked together and Amek, Trident,Neve mixing consoles ,not a funny studio!It was there that i learned ergonomic ,easy to use and simplicity to avoid to swim in a pool full of mess! So there is no excuse for Sonic Studio even if they were studio oriented!!indeed!

[foodfiend]

26 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

hi people....i was a recording studio owner too(48 analog tracks at the times that means 2 24 try recorders linked together and Amek, Trident,Neve mixing consoles ,not a funny studio!It was there that i learned ergonomic ,easy to use and simplicity to avoid to swim in a pool full of mess! So there is no excuse for Sonic Studio even if they were studio oriented!!indeed!

I sense your antagonism against Sonic Studio, whatever the product! That said, I gather that many professional users of Sonic Studio products have this same love-hate relationship with Sound Blade, similar to many of our relationships with Amarra!

[mneveux]

THe frustration with A4's library management is too much to deal with for me. I hope they sort it out sometime soon. I ripped the Judas Pries collection box set of 19 CD's and iTunes indexes it perfectly. In A4, all the songs are out of order so I cannot play an individual album.

 

For me, the best solution is iTunes with Amarra sQ+ as the sound engine. My 2015 iMac does support 24bit 96k files so I don't even use an external DAC and it sounds awesome. I think A4 straight up may be a little better but hat may be because I don't have the sound tweaked exactly the same in sQ+. In sQ+ you have full control of the EQ unlike A4.

[xtraktz]

Where is Luxe version? I bought A3 just because of $5 upgrade possibility to A4 Luxe. Now is end of April 2017 and still coming soon... This, and ongoing users comments about the A4 make thoughts about wasted money ((

 

Hope that in "coming soon" Luxe version at least will be added navigation by folders))

[copy_of_a]

4 hours ago, foodfiend said:

To someone, a bare-bones software with rudimentary library management that sounds good trumps another with more features but sounds less engaging.

Actually I don't care a lot about the library. I do, however, care about playing from RAM and about hog mode and such sophisticated things that all contribute to "sound quality". Aren't these 'basics' of an "audiophile" player?

 

[jhwalker]

25 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

Actually I don't care a lot about the library. I do, however, care about playing from RAM and about hog mode and such sophisticated things that all contribute to "sound quality". Aren't these 'basics' of an "audiophile" player?

 

 

If the software can't simply "watch" a folder / multiple folders and display the music properly so I can play it, I don't care *how good* it sounds - it's unusable to me.

 

Roon does this.  Audirvana dos this.  JRiver does this.  iTunes doesn't, so I don't use it for playback.  Amara *really* doesn't do this - in fact, it manages to screw up manually updating! - so I certainly don't use it.