Tremendous article on High-End Audio Industry

[joelha]

Joel, I have as much right to my opinion as Ken does to his. You can't tell me he can declare his while telling me I can't share my rebuttal...

 

It's hard to believe that you don't believe there's a difference between stating a provocative even objectionable opinion and publicly defaming someone.

 

They're not even close to being on the same moral plane.

 

I'll say again, you should know better.

 

Joel

[The Computer Audiophile]

I stand by what I said too. There are any number of ways he could have made his point, he chose the one that clearly shows what a piece of shit he is as a human being.

 

Joel, I have as much right to my opinion as Ken does to his. You can't tell me he can declare his while telling me I can't share my rebuttal...

 

Chris, I do vote with my dollars. I don't buy mega buck systems, but it isn't because of this article, or their marketing, or any other reason, it is simply because I don't want to. What gives me a right to tell someone else how to run their business?

Wow. I've never seen posts from you with this kind of anger and misunderstanding.

 

You don't know Ken as a person and you're making a judgement about him as a person based on a provocative editorial. Do you judge Kevin Spacey as a person based on his work in House of Cards?

 

everbody has the right to an opinion. But not all shared opinions are appropriate in all venues.

 

You lost me with the relevance of your last paragraph with respect to our discussion. You claimed there is nothing you can do about it, to which I suggested there is and voting with dollars is what you can do. Now you say you do vote with dollars. Perhaps we just have some miscommunication.

[AudioDoctor]

It's hard to believe that you don't believe there's a difference between stating a provocative even objectionable opinion and publicly defaming someone.

 

They're not even close to being on the same moral plane.

 

I'll say again, you should know better.

 

Joel

 

This is okay though?

 

As unjust as this may seem to you, single-parent Somali immigrants and Lesbian buskers on welfare and refugees from Syria and underpaid avocado pickers do not buy moving-coil cartridges and air-bearing tonearms.

[AudioDoctor]

Wow. I've never seen posts from you with this kind of anger and misunderstanding.

 

You don't know Ken as a person and you're making a judgement about him as a person based on a provocative editorial. Do you judge Kevin Spacey as a person based on his work in House of Cards?

 

everbody has the right to an opinion. But not all shared opinions are appropriate in all venues.

 

You lost me with the relevance of your last paragraph with respect to our discussion. You claimed there is nothing you can do about it, to which I suggested there is and voting with dollars is what you can do. Now you say you do vote with dollars. Perhaps we just have some miscommunication.

 

I can't do anything about how someone else chooses to run their business, that is up to them. As I think about it some, considering my dollars were never going to go to them in the first place, I am not really voting with my dollars at all.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is okay though?

can you expand on that? Is the statement true or false? What don't you like about the statement?

[joelha]

This is okay though?

 

Bad or unnecessarily provocative arguments can be one thing.

 

Trying to damage someone's reputation is completely different and far worse.

 

Joel

[AudioDoctor]

can you expand on that? Is the statement true or false? What don't you like about the statement?

 

It is derogatory, it is inflammatory, it is racist, it is sexist, etc...

 

not just single parents, but somali immigrant single parents... Not just Buskers, but Lesbian buskers on welfare, refugees from Syria. (news flash Ken, there are refugees from lots of places not Syria. Maybe even in your own past...) and finally, "avocado pickers" Why not just say wetbacks? Is that term out of vogue these days?

 

jesus christ, that this was even published is a fucking miracle. Is this publication owned by Faux Snooze?

 

what is the fucking point of singling out these groups? They probably don't even know the Hi end HI Fi market exists, much less care. Additionally, there are 99.9% of the population that are white, anglo-saxon, hard working americans that ALSO can't afford it, or care, or know that it exists... There is no point for it other than to be a ginormous piece of shit and an even bigger ass of a human being.

 

I bet he is a dRUMPf voter too...

[AudioDoctor]

Bad or unnecessarily provocative arguments can be one thing.

 

Trying to damage someone's reputation is completely different and far worse.

 

Joel

 

 

I really have no sympathy for someone as much of an ass as him.

[The Computer Audiophile]

It is derogatory, it is inflammatory, it is racist, it is sexist, etc...

 

not just single parents, but somali immigrant single parents... Not just Buskers, but Lesbian buskers on welfare, refugees from Syria. (news flash Ken, there are refugees from lots of places not Syria. Maybe even in your own past...) and finally, "avocado pickers" Why not just say wetbacks? Is that term out of vogue these days?

 

jesus christ, that this was even published is a fucking miracle. Is this publication owned by Faux Snooze?

Thanks for expanding a bit on that. I'm with you that it's inflammatory, but I'm struggling to see racism and sexism. I think both racism and sexism are terrible, but I don't see how what he said is either racist or sexist. If I am wrong I'll be the first to admit it and change my mind.

[AudioDoctor]

Thanks for expanding a bit on that. I'm with you that it's inflammatory, but I'm struggling to see racism and sexism. I think both racism and sexism are terrible, but I don't see how what he said is either racist or sexist. If I am wrong I'll be the first to admit it and change my mind.

 

Perhaps you didn't see it because I edited it some. I quoted myself here.

 

Additionally, there are 99.9% of the population that are white, anglo-saxon, hard working americans that ALSO can't afford it, or care, or know that it exists...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Perhaps you didn't see it because I edited it some. I quoted myself here.

Thanks again. But, would it have racist for him to say white, Macdonalds hamburger flipping, single fathers aren't buying these products?

[AudioDoctor]

Thanks again. But, would it have racist for him to say white, Macdonalds hamburger flipping, single fathers aren't buying these products?

 

yes.

[The Computer Audiophile]

yes.

OK, you've helped me understand your point and point of view. Thanks Jason.

 

I don't agree with you but that's OK.

[AudioDoctor]

I am going to out myself here. I have a net worth of more than a few million. If Ken was the salesman trying to sell me something, I have no doubt I would walk away in disgust without buying anything from such a horrible human being.

[dallasjustice]

The article IS about luxury audio gear. I'm primarily interested in high performance playback. Those are two different things. Companies like Harman are interested in science and technology. The companies who primarily focus on engineering and performance tend to find ways to reduce their products' cost so they can gain greater market share and increase objective performance. This is true with any industry. (Eg. Computers, mobile phones and TVs).

 

I think the article exemplifies a real schism in the music playback industry. Many smaller and less talented companies can't compete based on performance or technology. Instead they choose to compete on marketing hype. That's fine with me and I don't judge others for how they spend their money. But I do consider those luxury brands to be in an entirely different business, even if they don't yet realize it.

[Priaptor]

It is derogatory, it is inflammatory, it is racist, it is sexist, etc...

 

not just single parents, but somali immigrant single parents... Not just Buskers, but Lesbian buskers on welfare, refugees from Syria. (news flash Ken, there are refugees from lots of places not Syria. Maybe even in your own past...) and finally, "avocado pickers" Why not just say wetbacks? Is that term out of vogue these days?

 

jesus christ, that this was even published is a fucking miracle. Is this publication owned by Faux Snooze?

 

what is the fucking point of singling out these groups? They probably don't even know the Hi end HI Fi market exists, much less care. Additionally, there are 99.9% of the population that are white, anglo-saxon, hard working americans that ALSO can't afford it, or care, or know that it exists... There is no point for it other than to be a ginormous piece of shit and an even bigger ass of a human being.

 

I bet he is a dRUMPf voter too...

 

You have called me much worse so get off your high horse. Your barrage of street invectives and curse words shows your baseline status. Funny Bill Maher makes a living on the opposite end of the political spectrum and has been much more insulting to conservative women and conservatives in general BUT to your hypocritical perspective that is "comedy".

 

Plus you show your intolerance for anything that doesn't fit your Progressive political perspective by your last line. Face it, you are a farce.

[wgscott]

JIf it was not your intent I take back you being clever.

 

Howie.

 

I may have to start liking you again.

[wgscott]

It's hard to believe that you don't believe there's a difference between stating a provocative even objectionable opinion and publicly defaming someone.

 

They're not even close to being on the same moral plane.

 

I'll say again, you should know better.

 

Joel

 

Calling someone a POS is not defamation. Calling him a shoplifter or a Trump supporter is. See the difference?

[wgscott]

Bad or unnecessarily provocative arguments can be one thing.

 

Trying to damage someone's reputation is completely different and far worse.

 

Joel

 

 

I think what he said himself did far more to damage his reputation than any generic invective AudioDoc deployed. Again, there is a huge difference, legally speaking, between calling someone an a-hole and falsely accusing them of something illegal or grossly immoral.

[joelha]

I think what he said himself did far more to damage his reputation than any generic invective AudioDoc deployed. Again, there is a huge difference, legally speaking, between calling someone an a-hole and falsely accusing them of something illegal or grossly immoral.

 

Yes, I see the difference.

 

One is defamation and the other is a more specific form of defamation.

 

In both cases an individual is lowered in the eyes of others.

 

Joel

[mrvco]

This is okay though?

 

Without a doubt it is a crass, inflammatory statement that needlessly distracts from his real point. None of those people are the ones bitching about high-end audio prices, so the reference isn't even a tiny bit clever or provocative in any relevant sense. The guy just comes off as a grumpy old dick hammering out click-bait in his twilight years. Apparently it worked.

[wgscott]

Thanks again. But, would it have racist for him to say white, Macdonalds hamburger flipping, single fathers aren't buying these products?

 

The racially prejudiced stereotype isn't white fathers. (It is technically incorrect to call this kind of bigotry racist. The economic system that creates the conditions for the actualization of this stereotype, however, can be classified as such with some degree of veracity.)

[AudioDoctor]

You have called me much worse so get off your high horse. Your barrage of street invectives and curse words shows your baseline status. Funny Bill Maher makes a living on the opposite end of the political spectrum and has been much more insulting to conservative women and conservatives in general BUT to your hypocritical perspective that is "comedy".

 

Plus you show your intolerance for anything that doesn't fit your Progressive political perspective by your last line. Face it, you are a farce.

 

Show me where I called you worse? Bill Maher is involved somehow? I said I liked him someplace?

 

Yeah, you're right I outed myself as someone who respects other people as human beings. God, I am so awful...

[wgscott]

It is what passes for "argumentation" for priaptor. Unable or unwilling to perform an actual analysis, he strings together a bunch of labels or cliches he falsely thinks represents your point of view, and then goes off on an irrelevant tangent of ranting and raving at windmills.

 

Don't you quacks have a diagnosis for this?

[AudioDoctor]

Bad or unnecessarily provocative arguments can be one thing.

 

Trying to damage someone's reputation is completely different and far worse.

 

Joel

 

Good. I have done no such thing. That you think he has a reputation to protect after that article says a lot about you.