Tremendous article on High-End Audio Industry

[wgscott]

I understand you are an educated doctor but isn't that 3 things?

 

Four.

[AudioDoctor]

one. He is an asshole. I just outlined the specific ways he is an asshole.

[Priaptor]

Is that really the best you can do?

 

Ok so I am assuming you have the same opinion of Bill Clinton? At least Kessler hasn't raped any women as far as I know. Kessler hasn't said Obama would have been serving him coffee 15 years ago. To my knowledge Kessler hasn't taken bribes from companies, people or countries involved in torture, killing gays and abusive acts against women.

[AudioDoctor]

Ok so I am assuming you have the same opinion of Bill Clinton? At least Kessler hasn't raped any women as far as I know. Kessler hasn't said Obama would have been serving him coffee 15 years ago. To my knowledge Kessler hasn't taken bribes from companies, people or countries involved in torture, killing gays and abusive acts against women.

 

Are you this desperate to find something to argue about?

[wgscott]

The capitalist analogue of "useful idiot" comes to mind for KK. (This was attributed to Lenin, but according to William Saffire, he never penned it or said it.)

[Priaptor]

Four.

 

Lol

 

Thanks for having my back. The term asshole has been used by ADD so much I forgot to count it.

 

Thanks bro. I feel like Biden now.

[Priaptor]

Are you this desperate to find something to argue about?

 

Well KK did go after Hillary as well so I figured there has to be a tit for tat between your loathing of KK and the Clintons since there are so many similarities in the characteristics you hate regarding KK

[AudioDoctor]

Well KK did go after Hillary as well so I figured there has to be a tit for tat between your loathing of KK and the Clintons since there are so many similarities in the characteristics you hate regarding KK

 

You should try to stay on topic.

[Priaptor]

You should try to stay on topic.

 

I am

 

We are talking about "racist, sexist, bigoted assholes" no?

[joelha]

I am

 

We are talking about "racist, sexist, bigoted assholes" no?

 

Actually, we were originally supposed to be talking about the state of the high-end audio industry.

 

I'd like to return to that topic.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

[AudioDoctor]

I am

 

We are talking about "racist, sexist, bigoted assholes" no?

 

Would you like to talk about how all of them are Republicans?

[Priaptor]

Would you like to talk about how all of them are Republicans?

 

Hey ADD, here are just a few Dem niceties and by no means the only. There are so many it is a joke. I mean in the WikiLeaks DNC emails they make Kessler look like a choir boy.

 

Obama said prior to Penn primary: "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,"

 

Harry Reid, 2010: “a light-skinned” African American “with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,”

 

Hillary Clinton, Presidential Candidate 2008: "I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far," drawled presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton, mimicking black voice to a black audience, at the First Baptist Church of Selma, Alabama.

 

Bill Clinton, 2008: “A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags.”

 

Joe Biden, 6/17/2006: "You CANNOT go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent ... I'm not joking."

 

Ted Kennedy, 2003: Sen. Ted Kennedy called President Bush's judicial nominees "Neanderthals" on Friday, a group that includes Hispanic lawyer Miguel Estrada and African-American Judge Janice Rogers Brown.

 

Governmor Bill Clinton, 1987: In 1987, Mr. Clinton signed Act 116 reaffirming a state flag design that included a star symbolizing the state’s membership in the Confederacy.

 

Rev Jesse Jackson, Presidential Candidate 1984 January 25:*Sitting in a snack bar at Washington's National Airport, the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson uses the word "hymie" and the word "hymietown" to refer respectively to Jews and New York City

 

Al Sharpton, 1991: After a car in a Hasidic rabbi's motorcade killed a 7-year-old black boy in Brooklyn in 1991, Sharpton referred to the Hasidic Jews as "diamond merchants" and said "if the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house." Shortly afterward, an innocent Hasidic Jewish student visiting the area from Australia was set upon by a mob and stabbed to death

 

Bill Maher: "Palin is a dumb twat"; "Palin and Bachman are bimbos"; Sarah Palin is a c--t, because there's just no other word for her."

[wgscott]

supposed to be

 

Here's an idea: If that is your genuine concern, why not simply make a thread in your very own words, stating the case, without the "unintended" embedded distractions?

[joelha]

Sorry you feel the need to put "unintended" in quotes, Bill.

 

I had thought I had made my intentions clear. But apparently not enough for your satisfaction.

 

Joel

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's an idea: If that is your genuine concern, why not simply make a thread in your very own words, stating the case, without the "unintended" embedded distractions?

Just can't let that one go can you?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Congratulations to a Somali immigrant who just unseated a 44 year incumbent running for the Minnesota House of Representatives- 'Relentless' Ilhan Omar sealed historic win in Minnesota legislative battle | Star Tribune

 

I'm guessing Ken doesn't mingle with this crowd, but I could be wrong.

[wgscott]

Just can't let that one go can you?

 

You are right. It is completely innocuous.

 

Why not invite KK to write the next CA front-page article?

[The Computer Audiophile]

You are right. It is completely innocuous.

 

Why not invite KK to write the next CA front-page article?

Those of us who know Joel, know your way off base. I wouldn't have followed up if I didn't know for a fact that I'm right. It's completely innocuous.

 

Not sure I follow your comment about inviting KK to write an article. Seems to be from left field.

[cmarin]

How can you claim what you do in your first paragraph regarding "hardly get turned on". Nonsense. WBF is filled with people with megabuck systems that get turned on plenty.

 

As to law of diminishing returns per $ spent show me what isn't. I don't understand that point either. If anything I could understand the point that more $ doesn't necessarily equate to better sound.

 

As to setup etc that has nothing to do with $ but desire and room. I have seen many systems both "cheap" and "expensive" that by picture alone are setup like crap.

 

Time to get over the $ issue.

 

+1 especially in reference to the comment that mega buck systems hardly get turned on, or that only a few of their owners fully know what they are doing. My experience is not consistent with those generalized observations.

[The Computer Audiophile]

+1 especially in reference to the comment that mega buck systems hardly get turned on, or that only a few of their owners fully know what they are doing. My experience is not consistent with those generalized observations.

My experience is consistent with yours. I know plenty of people with very expensive systems that listen to more music on those systems than I do, and I listen for a living. And, I'm willing to bet they get more enjoyment from their music than I do. I also know many people who have very expensive automobiles that rarely leave the garage. I couldn't care less how someone chooses to use his purchase. I just know some realities based on my experience.

 

In addition, most people I know with very expensive systems are incredibly smart people. They know when they are getting ripped off, when something is priced over its true value, and they don't like to waste money (just like everyone else). There seems to be a theme that megabuck system owners are dumb, don't listen, and are easily separated from their money for snake oil. Hardly true in my experience.

[徐中銳]

The rich, recalling my recalling of someone who qualify, speaking about his... :

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[Paul R]

Hey ADD, here are just a few Dem niceties and by no means the only. There are so many it is a joke. I mean in the WikiLeaks DNC emails they make Kessler look like a choir boy.

 

Obama said prior to Penn primary: "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,"

 

Harry Reid, 2010: “a light-skinned” African American “with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,”

 

Hillary Clinton, Presidential Candidate 2008: "I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far," drawled presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton, mimicking black voice to a black audience, at the First Baptist Church of Selma, Alabama.

 

Bill Clinton, 2008: “A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags.”

 

Joe Biden, 6/17/2006: "You CANNOT go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent ... I'm not joking."

 

Ted Kennedy, 2003: Sen. Ted Kennedy called President Bush's judicial nominees "Neanderthals" on Friday, a group that includes Hispanic lawyer Miguel Estrada and African-American Judge Janice Rogers Brown.

 

Governmor Bill Clinton, 1987: In 1987, Mr. Clinton signed Act 116 reaffirming a state flag design that included a star symbolizing the state’s membership in the Confederacy.

 

Rev Jesse Jackson, Presidential Candidate 1984 January 25:*Sitting in a snack bar at Washington's National Airport, the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson uses the word "hymie" and the word "hymietown" to refer respectively to Jews and New York City

 

Al Sharpton, 1991: After a car in a Hasidic rabbi's motorcade killed a 7-year-old black boy in Brooklyn in 1991, Sharpton referred to the Hasidic Jews as "diamond merchants" and said "if the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house." Shortly afterward, an innocent Hasidic Jewish student visiting the area from Australia was set upon by a mob and stabbed to death

 

Bill Maher: "Palin is a dumb twat"; "Palin and Bachman are bimbos"; Sarah Palin is a c--t, because there's just no other word for her."

 

This is just plain stupid. There are many many examples on "the other side" of the same behavior, especially if, like here, many of the quotes are taken out of context. Or from the National Enquirer. (Sigh)

 

Most people are not so gullible as to be taken in by such nonsense.

 

Then again, there are people who dismiss any audio system with a component in it that costs less than $5000. You can't possibly hear the magic in a vinyl recording on a $1500 turntable with a $300 cartridge and a $1500 phono amp! (Seriously - I have been given exactly that advice before. The person was serious and someone whose opinion I respect, even if I disgree with that particular opinion.)

 

Fact is, the uber expensive high end may detract more from our hobby than it possibly adds. That is even before you count in the foolish stuff, like quantum tunneling cables or cyrogenically treated speaker stands. (Concrete bird bath bases "treated" in a commercial freezer. $15,500 per pair.)

[Paul R]

My experience is consistent with yours. I know plenty of people with very expensive systems that listen to more music on those systems than I do, and I listen for a living. And, I'm willing to bet they get more enjoyment from their music than I do. I also know many people who have very expensive automobiles that rarely leave the garage. I couldn't care less how someone chooses to use his purchase. I just know some realities based on my experience.

 

In addition, most people I know with very expensive systems are incredibly smart people. They know when they are getting ripped off, when something is priced over its true value, and they don't like to waste money (just like everyone else). There seems to be a theme that megabuck system owners are dumb, don't listen, and are easily separated from their money for snake oil. Hardly true in my experience.

 

I would be willing to bet a quarter that those folks you reference are all pretty much audiophiles.

 

I have friends who spent $250k on an "audio system" for their homes who purchased it just because it was "the best." They use it only upon rare occasion, with a couple people I know listening far more to a Bose Wave radio thing in their study or kitchen. The Bose is good to them, because once again, they believe it to be "the best."

 

I do think this is much more common than what you see. Perhaps it is self selection of some kind though. Wonder if there are any respectable studies on this? Not sponsored by Bose I mean!

[joelha]

Fact is, the uber expensive high end may detract more from our hobby than it possibly adds. That is even before you count in the foolish stuff, like quantum tunneling cables or cyrogenically treated speaker stands. (Concrete bird bath bases "treated" in a commercial freezer. $15,500 per pair.)

 

Hey Paul,

 

Much as it pains me to disagree (consider this the friendliest disagreement you can encounter on-line ) talk to any high-end manufacturer and ask them what would happen to their business if their uber-expensive cables, amps, speakers, or turntables could, for whatever reason, no longer be sold.

 

Yes, I agree. Some of the high-end pricing and product is hard to understand and doesn't do our hobby any favors. At the same time, it's far easier for a manufacturer to sell one pair of $200,000 speakers than 20 pairs of $10,000 speakers. And for those who think that these factory owners are getting silly rich from these prices, get to know them. Some of them have done well, but the vast majority . . . not so much. This is a very tough industry with, by all appearances, a shrinking and aging market.

 

For now at least, that kind of product is, at least in my experience, a necessary feature of keeping this industry where it is for now.

 

Joel

[sjay]

Good audio can be had for 2k , great audio for 10-20k, awesome audio for 30-40k......but beyond that in the mega dollar setups I think the return on investment starts to become questionable.

 

I love audio, and have heard system at many price levels and what i can say with certainty is when i have heard megs dollar setup like Wilson/DCS/Levinson , i was left feeling disappointed.

 

Big dolllar investments does not always equate to superior results, cre & attention to system matching pays beg dividends.

 

then again what do i know, i have at best a mid fi setup but the fact it makes me smile each and every time is proof i am doing something right and that something right is doing it woth care and love, not an aim to show my bank balance