Tremendous article on High-End Audio Industry

[AudioDoctor]

Without a doubt it is a crass, inflammatory statement that needlessly distracts from his real point. None of those people are the ones bitching about high-end audio prices, so the reference isn't even a tiny bit clever or provocative in any relevant sense. The guy just comes off as a grumpy old dick hammering out click-bait in his twilight years. Apparently it worked.

 

his point wasn't even about how much they cost, it was about how they market them.

[AudioDoctor]

It is what passes for "argumentation" for priaptor. Unable or unwilling to perform an actual analysis, he strings together a bunch of labels or cliches he falsely thinks represents your point of view, and then goes off on an irrelevant tangent of ranting and raving at windmills.

 

Don't you quacks have a diagnosis for this?

 

 

I avoided all Psych courses that I could. On purpose.

[NOMBEDES]

I have never seen Audio.doc get so upset before, I truly think there must be something outside of this thread which is causing his behavior. There really is nothing to be gained with course language. (In this case and in this manner)

 

The original article does not offend me, but it is indeed offensive. It was written for effect. Good writing - like good music - invokes emotional response. Not all emotions are positive.

[wgscott]

Thread needs some music ...

 

[esldude]

Or a choice between five E or two E singers.

 

[AudioDoctor]

his entire point was that he disagrees with the way hi end HiFi companies market their products.

 

This:

 

As unjust as this may seem to you, single-parent Somali immigrants and Lesbian buskers on welfare and refugees from Syria and underpaid avocado pickers do not buy moving-coil cartridges and air-bearing tonearms.

 

and many other comments were not needed to make his point. He gained nothing by including his politics or bigoted ideas towards minorities.

[AudioDoctor]

I have never seen Audio.doc get so upset before, I truly think there must be something outside of this thread which is causing his behavior. There really is nothing to be gained with course language. (In this case and in this manner)

 

The original article does not offend me, but it is indeed offensive. It was written for effect. Good writing - like good music - invokes emotional response. Not all emotions are positive.

 

You're right. There is something going on. In this article, in this country, in this world. Every one has gone nuts. That anyone thinks this is ok is upsetting.

[AudioDoctor]

Perhaps there is a mass lack of empathy for others affecting the entire world...

[esldude]

Perhaps there is a mass lack of empathy for others affecting the entire world...

I fear you are onto a modern truth. It should be embarrassing. More the pity it is not.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[wisnon]

Perhaps there is a mass lack of empathy for others affecting the entire world...

 

Doc...I agree with you here!

There is a degree of insanity affacting this planet and for a long time. It gets worse with the crap we eat in the modern diet.

[Paul R]

Interesting point. Are there manufacturers that make both "reasonably priced" products plus megabuck products? Something like say a DAC for $2k and a $30k+ one? My thinking is that maybe it is the $30k DAC research that moves the technology for the $2k DAC forward. I don't really know but you have to admit this is possibly part of the equation.

 

Sure - Light Harmonic for example, makes the low cost Pulse DAC and the way over the top DaVinci DAC at $31K and has openly say they are building a DAC at the $120K price point. (Whether they ever get there or not is a different story.) Now, that company has problems, some of which are even evocative of Joel's point. However, other paths that company takes, such as crowdsourcing, are just not the same at all.

 

There are other companies, such as Wavelength, which makes a sub $1000 DAC and also makes DACs approaching $15K or beyond, with options. Pioneer which makes $129 pairs of speakers, and with their TAD line, speakers that share the pinnacle of speaker technology with companies like Magico and Wilson Audio.

 

I think your point is quite valid in some cases, but I rather think that it may be the reverse as well. A company makes a well regarded and cost effective product, then thinks for just a little more effort, they can make a higher end product with a much larger profit margin. Perhaps iFi is an example of of both such forces acting on the same company simultaneously.

 

Just an opinion though, YMMV and TINAR.

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

Paul,

 

Believe me it's more fun to have a high end audio system and a Ferrari in the garage than an average system with a Toyota in the garage.

 

(grin) Different Strokes - not for me. That Ferrari is unlikely to perform will on rock or in a muddy field, and would be nothing less than a target of interest to the bozo's on I35. It would pretty much have to *stay* in the garage. Now a Toyota Land Cruiser - much more fun. Almost as much as Jeep.

 

Also, the high end audio system is not as much fun to me as a high performance audio system, and they are not the same thing! Not the same thing at all...

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

Bill,

 

Nothing in the article justifies a personal public attack like AudioDoctor posted. Nothing.

 

That aside, who is trolling?

 

Joel

 

Mmm- Joel you are a really good thinker, and I enjoy your posts. But they are provocative, and they are often capable of stirring up some powerful feelings and emotions. That is beyond good for a writer of course. It is, perhaps, at least from some perspectives, the whole point.

 

But there are limits. This particular author is way over the limit. At the risk of sounding peeved, replace some of those groups with Israelis or Jewish people, and I suspect your tolerance would drop down the scale like a stone. Replace them with Irish or Southern and my own tolerance would vanish. Replace it with other "hot topic" groups, and the place might burn down..

 

Your postings are inherently political, and they are mild compared to what Jason responded to. Jason is, if nothing else, a very empathetic person, and keenly feels the suffering of other people. From his point of view, I am absolutely sure the response was justified.

 

-Paul

[Priaptor]

It is what passes for "argumentation" for priaptor. Unable or unwilling to perform an actual analysis, he strings together a bunch of labels or cliches he falsely thinks represents your point of view, and then goes off on an irrelevant tangent of ranting and raving at windmills.

 

Don't you quacks have a diagnosis for this?

 

I knew your "like for me" would be short lived. Oh well and so life continues.

 

But the point is, Ken Kessler was making a point, using "politically insensitive" humor, that apparently Audiodoc went off the deep end over. Way way over like an inmate in Cuckoo's nest. Why? I can only surmise, using my scientific reasoning based on his attacks on me in other posts, casting all kinds of aspersions my way, was because Kessler was using political satire opposite of his (and obviously your) way of thinking.

[alfe]

(grin) Different Strokes - not for me. That Ferrari is unlikely to perform will on rock or in a muddy field, and would be nothing less than a target of interest to the bozo's on I35. It would pretty much have to *stay* in the garage. Now a Toyota Land Cruiser - much more fun. Almost as much as Jeep.

 

Also, the high end audio system is not as much fun to me as a high performance audio system, and they are not the same thing! Not the same thing at all...

 

-Paul

 

Stop being American you can't compare a Jeep to a Land cruiser

[Priaptor]

Mmm- Joel you are a really good thinker, and I enjoy your posts. But they are provocative, and they are often capable of stirring up some powerful feelings and emotions. That is beyond good for a writer of course. It is, perhaps, at least from some perspectives, the whole point.

 

But there are limits. This particular author is way over the limit. At the risk of sounding peeved, replace some of those groups with Israelis or Jewish people, and I suspect your tolerance would drop down the scale like a stone. Replace them with Irish or Southern and my own tolerance would vanish. Replace it with other "hot topic" groups, and the place might burn down..

 

Your postings are inherently political, and they are mild compared to what Jason responded to. Jason is, if nothing else, a very empathetic person, and keenly feels the suffering of other people. From his point of view, I am absolutely sure the response was justified.

 

-Paul

 

You know Paul, why do you pick on Jews and Israel as your example to replace? Rhetorical question. I really don't want the answer or start down that path.

 

The fact that KK dared used political satire that is so opposite of what is acceptable in today's political correctness is getting everyone's balls in an uproar. He dared make fun of today's politically correct world using references to what the left considers untouchable and the response is hysterical. As I brought up in another post, Maher, adored by many on these threads says much worse about women, conservatives and yes even Muslims yet some on these threads have called him a "comedian".

 

Incidentally the world was a better place when you could make fun of Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, Whites, Women, etc. Now I have to watch ESPN (and other networks) make a big deal about a Muslim woman who got her ass kicked in the first round of Olympic fencing instead of the news worthy Olympic results.

[semente]

Kisser asked:

Now do the math: if there are 35,000,000 millionaires on earth, and Ferrari has no trouble selling 5000 to 7000 cars a year, and Rolex has no trouble selling circa 1,000,000 watches every year, why is the total market in the USA for high-end audio worth less than an estimated $350,000,000?

 

I can think of several reasons...and none has anything to do with professionalism or shiny suits.

 

The price and size of your stereo won't really impress the large majority of people, it won't show them how well you're doing in live, your status, your ego. Nor will the sound.

 

Most people don't care much if at all about high quality reproduction of recorded music; rich people are not different, they just have more money.

 

Many high-end products are exquisitely built using high quality materials and finish is excellent, their design matches the tastes of their target audiences, and despite the niche that is Audiophilia some brands do have the necessary image for that pride of ownership.

But despite the high price tag, many of these products don't perform as well as they should.

 

To me high-end is not so much a synonym of high-performace as it is of luxury and exclusiveness...

 

R

[Teresa]

...I'm struggling to see racism and sexism...

 

Racism from the article in red:

Sexism from the article in green:

"As unjust as this may seem to you,

single-parent Somali immigrants

and

Lesbian buskers on welfare

and

refugees from Syria

and underpaid avocado pickers do not buy moving-coil cartridges and air-bearing tonearms."

 

I almost didn't read this article as it said:

"[Warning: If you are easily offended, or a Democrat, or earning less than $200,000 per annum and bothered by it, or are inherently antipathetic to those with money even if they’ve earned it by hard work, please skip this month’s column, because no apologies will be forthcoming.]"

 

There are Democrats who earn more than $200,000 per year.

 

I'm a Green Party member, much more progressive than corporate Democrats. My only income is Social Security of $13,000 per year. Before I retired it took me about 12 years to earn $200,000.

 

However, I don't care how much rich people spend on their audio equipment. Unlike economics, ultra-expensive audio components often have a trickle-down effect, just look how much better modern affordable audio equipment has become.

 

So, I feel this article could have been written without the insults. Just my personal opinion.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Racism from the article in red:

Sexism from the article in green:

"As unjust as this may seem to you,

single-parent Somali immigrants

and

Lesbian buskers on welfare

and

refugees from Syria

and underpaid avocado pickers do not buy moving-coil cartridges and air-bearing tonearms."

 

Still not seeing how / why this is racist or sexist. Let's start with defining a racist:

 

 

 

I don't see where he is suggesting Somalis or Syrians are inferior just because of their race. Just because someone mentions race doesn't make them racist. Plus, is his statement true? Does that matter?

[Paul R]

You know Paul, why do you pick on Jews and Israel as your example to replace? Rhetorical question. I really don't want the answer or start down that path.

 

That is the point, I do not do that. I provided two specific cases, and one general case.

 

But since those subjects are hot buttons with you, you will predictably always react as if I did. It is merely your perception, and has nothing to do with reality.

 

Sort of like saying to a strict Moslem that beating their wife is shameful, and indeed an imprisonable offense in most of the world. Or to an orthodox Pakistani that Honor Killings are no such thing, just plain murder. What you or I think about the matter is very different indeed from what that person thinks about things.

 

And just as little to do with the reality most people in the world face as how important a $30K DAC is. In other words, nothing at all.

 

In matters you do not personally care that much about, your reaction is just as predictably, one of indifference, or at least, puzzlement over why someone sees it as an issue.

 

The things you and AudioDoc care about are just different. Not really better or worse, or more or less moral, but very different.

[Paul R]

Well - why single out Somali single parent immigrants? Why not single parents from Canada, Australia, Nigeria, Peru, Mexico, or the British Isles?

 

Some assumption drove him to single out Somali Single Parents as the group to best illustrate his point. What exactly?

 

 

It isn't easy, but on the whole, I would call that a bigoted remark instead of racist, but that may be splitting fine hairs...

 

 

Still not seeing how / why this is racist or sexist. Let's start with defining a racist:

 

 

 

I don't see where he is suggesting Somalis or Syrians are inferior just because of their race. Just because someone mentions race doesn't make them racist. Plus, is his statement true? Does that matter?

[Priaptor]

That is the point, I do not do that.

 

But since those subjects are hot buttons with you, you will predictably always react as if I did. It is merely your perception, and has nothing to do with reality.

 

Sort of like saying to a strict Moslem that beating their wife is shameful, and indeed an imprisonable offense in most of the world. Or to an orthodox Pakistani that Honor Killings are no such thing, just plain murder. What you or I think about the matter is very different indeed from what that person thinks about things.

 

And just as little to do with the reality most people in the world face as how important a $30K DAC is. In other words, nothing at all.

 

In matters you do not personally care that much about, your reaction is just as predictably, one of indifference, or at least, puzzlement over why someone sees it as an issue.

 

The things you and AudioDoc care about are just different. Not really better or worse, or more or less moral, but very different.

 

Goofing on Jews is not a hot button of mine. Baseless propaganda that some including "artists", politicians and ordinary people like to use against Israel is quite a different story. But I don't want to go down that road.

 

I think your analogy is way over the top. Last I looked (well I am not so sure anymore) we still live in America and being a "strict Moslem beating their wife" or an "orthodox Pakistani involved in Honor Killings" (not sure why you capitalized that) is against the law regardless of religious beliefs. I understand there are some anointed ones in this country who believe different but that is a topic for another day.

 

As to the differences between me and AudioDoc, he sure thinks as do others that their morality and things he cares about are more "moral and better". The so called intolerance of the tolerant.

[Jud]

I do think it was ironic that Kessler began an article about how high end manufacturers could win friends and influence people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People) among those most likely to purchase their products with a screed assured to do exactly the opposite among those most likely to read his article.

[wgscott]

I don't see where he is suggesting Somalis or Syrians are inferior just because of their race. Just because someone mentions race doesn't make them racist. Plus, is his statement true? Does that matter?

 

He's suggesting people that make under $200K per year are inferior, and angry about it, etc. Then he trots these out as examples of people who, by their ethnicity, etc., he "safely" assumes make less than $200K. So yes, except it is two-step "logic". Some Syrians who are very wealthy are refugees, not that facts matter to this guy.

[NOMBEDES]

Notes from Southern Arizona:

 

Would FOX "News" go out of business if the Republicans won it all? (FOX would have nothing to bitch about)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Back to topic. KK is not a racist. He is using language as a tool. I just cannot believe that such an intelligent group of participants on this web-site are not better read. Maybe the overabundance of Tech-heads and computer experts are lacking in the liberal arts.

There are many examples of KK's style of writing throughout literature. Give me a break.