Next step up of Power Amp

[Sal1950]

 

I know you're a nice person Sal, but you're delusional.

 

Sorry if this comes across as being arrogant, but I forgot more about audio than you'll ever know. I say this not as an insult, but just as a statement of fact.

 

Now for the insults.

Would that be the pot calling the kettle black. Not I who makes unsubstantiated subjective claims.

"Yep I recon she sure do sound good." LOL

 

You appear to think way more of yourself than appears to be deserved

[Sal1950]

Sorry Jamesroy, you came here simply to ask for a recommended amp upgrade at less than $900.

What you got was about 70 posts of everything but.

[YashN]

SET designs on big horns are really nice, but you *always* know you're hearing a low-powered amp with gobs of distortion, however sweet.

 

 

'Gobs' of distortion? Not the kind of distortion you get in a SS amp for sure.

[jabbr]

I was hearing what I expected to hear. I was familiar with the sound of Spectral amps for about 23 years, and that amp in particular for about 16, before I bought it.

 

 

 

If we want a more exacting approach, there is the following:

 

At RMAF 2015, I attended a seminar on various types of distortion (what they sound like, what levels may matter) given by the Audio Precision folks. One of the points the presenter made was that different people have different sensitivities to distortion, and respond differently to different types. Toward the end of the seminar, slew rate distortion was demonstrated, which the presenter said most people felt was fairly benign.

 

I couldn't believe how abrasive the sound of that distortion was. I worked on an archaeological dig when I was a kid, and they used to clean old crockery with an ultrasonic cleaning machine. It put out a heck of a lot of upper audible-range frequencies/harmonics, and since its whole purpose was to shake loose centuries-old dirt, those noises were mighty unpleasant. This "benign" distortion reminded me of that machine. It became audible to me before anyone else (each demo increased the level of a form of distortion over a half minute or so while people in the audience raised their hands as it became audible to them), and everyone else appeared to tolerate it better than I did.

 

I bought the Studio IV in 1989 or so on my dealer's and Richard Vandersteen's recommendation. At that time, slew rate wasn't a commonly published spec for amps, and I don't know what the Studio IV's slew rate is. Spectral has always concentrated on building extremely fast amps, and their slew rates reflect that. So it's possible my liking for the Spectral amp reflects the fact it puts out less of a type of distortion that is particularly bothersome to me.

 

Or it could all be expectation bias. I've never claimed to have golden ears, or to be immune to bias. But potential technical support for my preference does exist.

 

I'd love to get a Spectral for <$900 ? Possible

 

Not normally wanting to recommend something before listening ... but ... special circumstance. For his 65th birthday, Nelson Pass has designed and is making available a *kit* for a very special amp using the Sony VFET, a transistor which had its origin in the 1970s, and which has characteristics of the triode. Unobtanium but Mr. Pass is providing matched pairs along with a kit for DIYAudio ... the first group sold out lickety split (I have 2 kits) and the next group is coming available soon, after which ... bye bye...

 

Sony VFET Amplifier Part 2 - Page 183 - diyAudio

 

and read through the thread to figure out how to get on the list for the second go around ... figure $200 for kit and another $300 for case and $100 for parts and $100 for PSU etc...

 

Well haha we can recommend Nelson Pass amp ... but DIY is the *only* way to get under $900.

[firedog]

So back to Nord. Which model and options are the best to check out if one prefers a sound that's on the warm side?

 

Look at the NC500 models with the upgraded input module where you can choose one of 3 op-amp options on the input.

[17629v2]

"I'd love to get a Spectral for <$900 ? Possible"

 

See if you can find a BEL 1001 MK2 or newer. If you like Spectral, you should like BEL. Also, if you need more than 50 watts/channel, its one of the few amps that sound just as good bridged as it does in stereo mode. Just make sure you get 2 that are exactly the same.

[17629v2]

No hard feelings Sal, I appreciate the apology. Its not always easy to admit when you're at fault.

[rah50]

Look at the NC500 models with the upgraded input module where you can choose one of 3 op-amp options on the input.

 

The Sparkos op-amp is considered the warmest of the three, but there is only a slight diffrence. The SI994 is generally thought of as the best overall, with Burson a distant third to the both the SI994 and Sparkos.

[Sam Lord]

'Gobs' of distortion? Not the kind of distortion you get in a SS amp for sure.

Yes gobs. The best tube amp I ever heard for a variety of speakers was an Atma-Sphere OTL. Transformers bug me, though a few line-level versions are qiite good. But for power amps forget it, they distort a lot. Lots of group delay but especially the loss in LF output is bothersome to me. I'm used to amps with terrific bass: we achieved that with only 2 pairs of output devices in our class AB amps.

 

Hypex class D amps, especially the nCore, are so low in noise and all other distortion that they will mop the floor with many SET amps even on horns. The linked thread, scroll down to Steve Eddy's post #64, doesn't get into the weeds but is very informative. I really like SET amps, but prefer natural bass and highs which they do not provide. Musical? Absolutely. Distorted? Even driving headphones.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595113/differences-between-tube-amps-and-solid-state-amps-how-do-i-know-which-one-to-get/60

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[YashN]

Yes gobs. The best tube amp I ever heard for a variety of speakers was an Atma-Sphere OTL. Transformers bug me, though a few line-level versions are qiite good. But for power amps forget it, they distort a lot.

 

Hypex class D amps, especially the nCore, are so low in noise and all other distortion that they will mop the floor with many SET amps even on horns. The linked thread, scroll down to Steve Eddy's post #64, doesn't get into the weeds but is very informative. I really like SET amps, but prefer natural bass and highs which they do not provide. Musical? Absolutely. Distorted? Even driving headphones.

 

That's the distinction that should be made: the 'gobs' of distortion in a SET amp isn't the same as 'gobs' of distortion in a SS amp.

 

It looks like you're after power especially in low frequencies, which can be done in a bi-amping configuration with a SS and a SET Tube amp if necessary.

 

As for Steve Eddy's post, I haven't seen people who like SET Tube amps say SS amps doing only 2nd order harmonic distortion is 'impossible'.

 

I don't particularly care about headphones either.

[Sam Lord]

That's the distinction that should be made: the 'gobs' of distortion in a SET amp isn't the same as 'gobs' of distortion in a SS amp.,

 

I think the overall energy in SET distortion is significant, and noise is a big issue as well. But with SET amps you surely do get that rounded bass, ultra-liquid highs, and continuity that is wonderful with lots of music. We built some of the world's best and quietest tube preamps over a decade ago, so I'm not neutral on the subject.

 

It looks like you're after power especially in low frequencies, which can be done in a bi-amping configuration with a SS and a SET Tube amp if necessary.

 

That's a sensible and popular choice, but feel that I hear more with the best solid state amps in treble as well. Noise levels really matter here, IMO.

 

But I won't pretend that ultra-low noise is or should be paramount for most listeners. We can still hear music in ways that affect *us* the most, whatever equipment choices we make.

 

 

 

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[kilroy]

I recommend the OP go to the Audiogon forum for the best, most direct and intelligible answers for questions like this. People there really own this stuff.

 

But I do agree about the Nords, I have the UP monos in house and find they can keep up with many other amps at or above their price.

[sockpit]

On the Nords: what is downside to getting the stereo version? I.e., two monos in one chassis? Please indulge the newbie question.

[17629v2]

I think the overall energy in SET distortion is significant, and noise is a big issue as well. But with SET amps you surely do get that rounded bass, ultra-liquid highs, and continuity that is wonderful with lots of music. We built some of the world's best and quietest tube preamps over a decade ago, so I'm not neutral on the subject.

 

 

 

That's a sensible and popular choice, but feel that I hear more with the best solid state amps in treble as well. Noise levels really matter here, IMO.

 

But I won't pretend that ultra-low noise is or should be paramount for most listeners. We can still hear music in ways that affect *us* the most, whatever equipment choices we make.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

What kind of distortions are you talking about? The tube amps I have hold their composure extremely well under difficult loads. Just as good, if not better than the SS amps I own. If you put them next to each other and compare, you can't hear the noise floor on either amp. Its just something that's not an issue.

[Sam Lord]

Since we've moved OT on this discussion, I won't drag out this subject much more. Tube amps can sound outstanding and in no way deficient.

 

In my opinion, compared to *very* good SS amps, they are not as accurate in deep bass and have detectably greater noise.

 

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[Jamesroy]

Sorry Jamesroy, you came here simply to ask for a recommended amp upgrade at less than $900.

What you got was about 70 posts of everything but.

Thanks You. I realized I was pretty low on my budget was hoping to sale my B&K preamp for 150 but not yet and was hoping to get a little extra for my B&K POWER AMP. So If I can get a few good freelance Graphic Design Jobs then I can see. Graphic Design/Photography |

[Sam Lord]

On the Nords: what is downside to getting the stereo version? I.e., two monos in one chassis? Please indulge the newbie question.

Monoblocks have essentially total channel separation, giving better soundstaging. That parameter will limited by the preamp, which is usually vastly better, like >90 dB ( IOW <-90dB crosstalk) at 20kHz.

 

Although once again, the Hypex-based amps with SMPS perform much better here as well. To get the most out of those amps, you should use very short runs of fat, low-resistance speaker cable. And biwire if you can.

[Jamesroy]

Monoblocks have essentially total channel separation, giving better soundstaging. That parameter will limited by the preamp, which is usually vastly better, like >90 dB ( IOW <-90dB crosstalk) at 20kHz.

 

Although once again, the Hypex-based amps with SMPS perform much better here as well. To get the most out of those amps, you should use very short runs of fat, low-resistance speaker cable. And biwire if you can.

So what do you think the least expensive I could expect and an improvement over my B&K Reference 200.2 225w rms?

[kilroy]

Here's another off-topic but relevant post. I just pulled the Nord UP monos out of my system. No matter the hype my class A amp just sounds more natural, and better, in my opinion.

[Jamesroy]

Here's another off-topic but relevant post. I just pulled the Nord UP monos out of my system. No matter the hype my class A amp just sounds more natural, and better, in my opinion.

Thanks but what size power would go with my Paradigm 100 S series speakers?

[kilroy]

Thanks but what size power would go with my Paradigm 100 S series speakers?

 

That is clearly stated on Paradigm's website.

[Jamesroy]

That is clearly stated on Paradigm's website.

I meant from a users point of view. Thanks

[kilroy]

Honestly I have no idea what you're talking about. More power usually means higher volume. Every amp has its own sound. If you don't know what you want or aren't willing to do your own legwork it's doubtful anyone here can help you.

[Jamesroy]

Honestly I have no idea what you're talking about. More power usually means higher volume. Every amp has its own sound. If you don't know what you want or aren't willing to do your own legwork it's doubtful anyone here can help you.

I have been doing some research but most of you guys know more than I. I'm also a profession Photographer and that would be like me expecting someone who uses a smart phone and trying to take Photographs with it to know the benefits of a good camera over some toy in a phone. I would help them.

[kilroy]

There is no best answer to your question. The speaker maker lists recommended power. Expensive can sound better than cheap. More power usually goes louder. All amps sound different. Unless you want someone to tell you specifically what to buy what more can anyone do?