Next step up of Power Amp

[Jamesroy]

There is no best answer to your question. The speaker maker lists recommended power. Expensive can sound better than cheap. More power usually goes louder. All amps sound different. Unless you want someone to tell you specifically what to buy what more can anyone do?

Your correct. Tuesday I'll call Paradigm since my speakers aren't even listed there any more. Thank you

[Sal1950]

I have been doing some research but most of you guys know more than I. I'm also a profession Photographer and that would be like me expecting someone who uses a smart phone and trying to take Photographs with it to know the benefits of a good camera over some toy in a phone. I would help them.

 

The power thing is pretty gray

If you have a very powerful amp and turn it up too loud it could damage a speaker.

If you have too small a amp and turn it up till it's distorting and clipping, that could damage a speaker.

I'd recommend getting a amp at least at the manufacturers spec'd limit and just keep the volume at a sane level. You'll hear the strain if your pushing it with either approach.

 

As to sound quality I still would refer you back to my first post here,

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f23-dsp-room-correction-and-multi-channel-audio/next-step-power-amp-29408/#post569338

Your B&K is an excellent amp and upgrades can make a minor difference but nothing is gonna part the waters as some would suggest. Visit a dealer and try to borrow something in the $2-3k range for a weekend. That range of money can buy you the best sound available today minus a $5k custom CNC machined billet aluminum case or 20 year warranty. Don't be afraid to ask, they want to sell product.

Or call Audio Advisor and tell them you want to demo a Parasound A 21 MSRP $2500 I've done a quite a bit of business with them over 25 years they have always been very accommodating.

Parasound Halo A21 Stereo Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor

 

Or lastly, once again look into miniDSP room correction. That WILL give a SQ boost that you can really hear for less than a $1k

[Jamesroy]

The power thing is pretty gray

If you have a very powerful amp and turn it up too loud it could damage a speaker.

If you have too small a amp and turn it up till it's distorting and clipping, that could damage a speaker.

I'd recommend getting a amp at least at the manufacturers spec'd limit and just keep the volume at a sane level. You'll hear the strain if your pushing it with either approach.

 

As to sound quality I still would refer you back to my first post here,

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f23-dsp-room-correction-and-multi-channel-audio/next-step-power-amp-29408/#post569338

Your B&K is an excellent amp and upgrades can make a minor difference but nothing is gonna part the waters as some would suggest. Visit a dealer and try to borrow something in the $2-3k range for a weekend. That range of money can buy you the best sound available today minus a $5k custom CNC machined billet aluminum case or 20 year warranty. Don't be afraid to ask, they want to sell product.

Or call Audio Advisor and tell them you want to demo a Parasound A 21 MSRP $2500 I've done a quite a bit of business with them over 25 years they have always been very accommodating.

Parasound Halo A21 Stereo Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor

 

Or lastly, once again look into miniDSP room correction. That WILL give a SQ boost that you can really hear for less than a $1k

Ya that Parasound is so far out of my price range it's not even funny. Thanks

[Sal1950]

Ya that Parasound is so far out of my price range it's not even funny. Thanks

 

I fully understood that, but you asked,

"So what do you think the least expensive I could expect and an improvement over my B&K"

 

[Jamesroy]

I fully understood that, but you asked,

"So what do you think the least expensive I could expect and an improvement over my B&K"

 

Wow I didn't realize the B&K was that good that it would need to push me up into that high of a price range for an improvement.

[Jud]

Wow I didn't realize the B&K was that good that it would need to push me up into that high of a price range for an improvement.

 

B&K is good. Whether $2500 is necessary to improve on it - well, it is at least in one person's subjective opinion, and not in other folks' subjective opinions. I suppose that leaves you no worse off than when you started the thread, but I'm not sure it's been of any benefit....

[Jamesroy]

B&K is good. Whether $2500 is necessary to improve on it - well, it is at least in one person's subjective opinion, and not in other folks' subjective opinions. I suppose that leaves you no worse off than when you started the thread, but I'm not sure it's been of any benefit....

Thanks for the reply. Your so Right

[Ajax]

On the Nords: what is downside to getting the stereo version? I.e., two monos in one chassis? Please indulge the newbie question.

 

Hi sockpit,

 

After reading comments here at CA and other forums about the hypex amps I took the plunge and ordered the Nord One UP Hypex NCore NC500DM Stereo Amplifier with the Sonic Imagery 994 Op Amps to drive my ATC SCM 19 speakers. Before doing so I checked with Colin North of Nord (based in the UK and good bloke to deal with and very much a one man band) if there was any sonic benefit in going with 2 x mono version vs stereo and he advised not in his opinion.

 

Quote from Nord site:

 

"Stereo NC500DM Amplifier with true dual mono design delivering the best possible sound from the NCore NC 500 for the most demanding speakers and those wishing the ultimate bass control and sound."

 

Hypex Amps, Abrahamsen Audio, IPL Acoustic Speakers

 

The Nord stereo amp produces 400W RMS into 8 ohms and easily drives the relatively insensitive ATCs (84db) to VERY loud volumes without a hint of distortion. IMO the sound is transparent and voices are very natural, it just does its job and gets out of the way. Check out this thread which outlines my and kilroy's journey.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f12-headphones-and-speakers/atc-scm19-speakers-and-matching-amp-29518/

 

I'm in Aus and I paid around 1400 GBP including VAT and shipping, which equates to about US$2k. Delivery took only 10 days from order. Excellent value and highly recommended .... the hype is justified IMO.

 

All the best,

 

Ajax

[Jamesroy]

Hi sockpit,

 

After reading comments here at CA and other forums about the hypex amps I took the plunge and ordered the Nord One UP Hypex NCore NC500DM Stereo Amplifier with the Sonic Imagery 994 Op Amps to drive my ATC SCM 19 speakers. Before doing so I checked with Colin North of Nord (based in the UK and good bloke to deal with and very much a one man band) if there was any sonic benefit in going with 2 x mono version vs stereo and he advised not in his opinion.

 

Quote from Nord site:

 

"Stereo NC500DM Amplifier with true dual mono design delivering the best possible sound from the NCore NC 500 for the most demanding speakers and those wishing the ultimate bass control and sound."

 

Hypex Amps, Abrahamsen Audio, IPL Acoustic Speakers

 

The Nord stereo amp produces 400W RMS into 8 ohms and easily drives the relatively insensitive ATCs (84db) to VERY loud volumes without a hint of distortion. IMO the sound is transparent and voices are very natural, it just does its job and gets out of the way. Check out this thread which outlines my and kilroy's journey.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f12-headphones-and-speakers/atc-scm19-speakers-and-matching-amp-29518/

 

I'm in Aus and I paid around 1400 GBP including VAT and shipping, which equates to about US$2k. Delivery took only 10 days from order. Excellent value and highly recommended .... the hype is justified IMO.

 

All the best,

 

Ajax

Ya I just talked to the Paradigm people and with the 100 S Speakers I have I'd have to spend at least 2k to notice a difference. Too much at this time.

[sockpit]

Hi sockpit,

 

After reading comments here at CA and other forums about the hypex amps I took the plunge and ordered the Nord One UP Hypex NCore NC500DM Stereo Amplifier with the Sonic Imagery 994 Op Amps to drive my ATC SCM 19 speakers. Before doing so I checked with Colin North of Nord (based in the UK and good bloke to deal with and very much a one man band) if there was any sonic benefit in going with 2 x mono version vs stereo and he advised not in his opinion.

 

Quote from Nord site:

 

"Stereo NC500DM Amplifier with true dual mono design delivering the best possible sound from the NCore NC 500 for the most demanding speakers and those wishing the ultimate bass control and sound."

 

Hypex Amps, Abrahamsen Audio, IPL Acoustic Speakers

 

The Nord stereo amp produces 400W RMS into 8 ohms and easily drives the relatively insensitive ATCs (84db) to VERY loud volumes without a hint of distortion. IMO the sound is transparent and voices are very natural, it just does its job and gets out of the way. Check out this thread which outlines my and kilroy's journey.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f12-headphones-and-speakers/atc-scm19-speakers-and-matching-amp-29518/

 

I'm in Aus and I paid around 1400 GBP including VAT and shipping, which equates to about US$2k. Delivery took only 10 days from order. Excellent value and highly recommended .... the hype is justified IMO.

 

All the best,

 

Ajax

 

Thanks much for this report and the link to the other thread. These amps continue to intrigue me. I have a class D by Emerald Physics (100.2SE) that is built in Colorado and features an analogue power supply. EP's website leaves something to be desired, but it's been a great sounding amp for my little system. Am wondering if popping 2K for the Nord would appreciably top it. I'd have a lot more wattage, but then again my listening room is a small 11x14x8 foot office! Best,

[Jamesroy]

Thanks much for this report and the link to the other thread. These amps continue to intrigue me. I have a class D by Emerald Physics (100.2SE) that is built in Colorado and features an analogue power supply. EP's website leaves something to be desired, but it's been a great sounding amp for my little system. Am wondering if popping 2K for the Nord would appreciably top it. I'd have a lot more wattage, but then again my listening room is a small 11x14x8 foot office! Best,

I'm sorta newB but my old B&K 225 rms sounds goo. When I posted I was looking for something just a little better because I only have just a little money, I got a wide range of responses. But after calling Paradigm (my speakers) they confirmed I'd have to spend at least 2k to hear a difference over my B&K. So that shut the door on that wish list.

[Tone Deaf]

I agree. I am curious as to what you are hoping to improve in your current system. Your components seem pretty well balanced from a performance perspective to me.

 

I agree with your decision. Above was my response from early in the thread. I am still curious as to what you were hoping to achieve with a better amp.

 

If you were looking for an incremental improvement and you are still using the supplied power supply for your Regen, I wonder if you might get a nice little bump in sound quality simply by replacing the supplied MeanWell with a better supply. The "El Cheapo" mentioned in the Regen thread would be relatively inexpensive to try, with possibly something like the soon to be available UpTone LPS-1 being on the high end of choices.

 

Happy Listening!

[Jamesroy]

I agree with your decision. Above was my response from early in the thread. I am still curious as to what you were hoping to achieve with a better amp.

 

If you were looking for an incremental improvement and you are still using the supplied power supply for your Regen, I wonder if you might get a nice little bump in sound quality simply by replacing the supplied MeanWell with a better supply. The "El Cheapo" mentioned in the Regen thread would be relatively inexpensive to try, with possibly something like the soon to be available UpTone LPS-1 being on the high end of choices.

 

Happy Listening!

Is t possible you could tell me a little more about what you call "supplied MeanWell with a better supply" Thanks Oh and whats the suggested price of the LPS-1? Thank You

[Sal1950]

Ya I just talked to the Paradigm people and with the 100 S Speakers I have I'd have to spend at least 2k to notice a difference. Too much at this time.

 

LOL, So they agreed with what I've been saying since page 1.

[Sal1950]

B&K is good. Whether $2500 is necessary to improve on it - well, it is at least in one person's subjective opinion, and not in other folks' subjective opinions. I suppose that leaves you no worse off than when you started the thread, but I'm not sure it's been of any benefit....

Your right, just a guess on my part.

Paradigm just told him around $2K, close enough I'd say.

[Tone Deaf]

Is t possible you could tell me a little more about what you call "supplied MeanWell with a better supply" Thanks Oh and whats the suggested price of the LPS-1? Thank You

 

MeanWell is just the brand name of the power supply that Alex provides with the Regen. The MeanWell power supply that came with your Regen can used with the LPS-1, so one will save a few dollars if the LPS-1 is purchased with out a "feeder" power supply. Here is a link to the LPS-1 thread - pricing is in the first post.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/mystery-revealed-uptone-audio-ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-a-28609/

 

I would be much more confident recommending something like the LPS-1 if you had plans to acquire a DAC that could be powered by it, or a microRendu, where you could be pretty much guaranteed of a quite noticeable sound quality improvement with the LPS-1. That way if it turned out that the improvements with the Regen were still subtle, you could repurpose it for the other component without regret.

 

But if you think you might want to go down this route, I am certain a post in the Regen thread will get you plenty of suggestions over a range of prices.

[Jamesroy]

MeanWell is just the brand name of the power supply that Alex provides with the Regen. The MeanWell power supply that came with your Regen can used with the LPS-1, so one will save a few dollars if the LPS-1 is purchased with out a "feeder" power supply. Here is a link to the LPS-1 thread - pricing is in the first post.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/mystery-revealed-uptone-audio-ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-a-28609/

 

I would be much more confident recommending something like the LPS-1 if you had plans to acquire a DAC that could be powered by it, or a microRendu, where you could be pretty much guaranteed of a quite noticeable sound quality improvement with the LPS-1. That way if it turned out that the improvements with the Regen were still subtle, you could repurpose it for the other component without regret.

 

But if you think you might want to go down this route, I am certain a post in the Regen thread will get you plenty of suggestions over a range of prices.

Thanks for the tip and link.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Ya that Parasound is so far out of my price range it's not even funny. Thanks

 

 

So, get the Parasound A23 instead of the A21. The A23 is under $1,000. Both are similar John Curl designs.

 

I have two A23s. A reviewer friend has a $10k Wilson Watch subwoofer. Wilson recommended a bridged A23 as an amp to drive it, and this was to a guy who was preparing a review of their product.

[Jamesroy]

So, get the Parasound A23 instead of the A21. The A23 is under $1,000. Both are similar John Curl designs.

 

I have two A23s. A reviewer friend has a $10k Wilson Watch subwoofer. Wilson recommended a bridged A23 as an amp to drive it, and this was to a guy who was preparing a review of their product.

Thanks but it looks like it has the same watts 225 as my B&K? Although I don't understand the ohms part.

[Jamesroy]

So, get the Parasound A23 instead of the A21. The A23 is under $1,000. Both are similar John Curl designs.

I have two A23s. A reviewer friend has a $10k Wilson Watch subwoofer. Wilson recommended a bridged A23 as an amp to drive it, and this was to a guy who was preparing a review of their product.

Thanks but it looks like it has the same watts 225 as my B&K? Although I don't understand the ohms part.

[Sal1950]

Thanks but it looks like it has the same watts 225 as my B&K? Although I don't understand the ohms part.

 

The "ohms" refers to the the impedance of the intended speaker. Differect speakers have different imput impedance. Yours are rated at "8 ohms compatible" but measure closer to 4. At this point not something you have to be concerned about but when comparing 2 amps you just want to compare apples to apples. (X watts into X ohms).

Your B&K series 2 was spec'd to deliver 220 wpc into 8 ohms.

Specifications - B&k Reference 200.1 Owner's Manual [Page 13]

In VERY short it would be about twice as powerful as th A23 which is spec'd at 125 WPC into 8 ohms.

I don't believe you wanted to go down in power.

[Jamesroy]

The "ohms" refers to the the impedance of the intended speaker. Differect speakers have different imput impedance. Yours are rated at "8 ohms compatible" but measure closer to 4. At this point not something you have to be concerned about but when comparing 2 amps you just want to compare apples to apples. (X watts into X ohms).

Your B&K series 2 was spec'd to deliver 220 wpc into 8 ohms.

Specifications - B&k Reference 200.1 Owner's Manual [Page 13]

In VERY short it would be about twice as powerful as th A23 which is spec'd at 125 WPC into 8 ohms.

I don't believe you wanted to go down in power.

Thank You I read the specs just the opposite. I'll wait for the new REGEN if that would make a difference?

[Sam Lord]

So what do you think the least expensive I could expect and an improvement over my B&K Reference 200.2 225w rms?

 

I do expect the least expensive Nord, UcD-based (not as good as the nCore500-based models) would be an improvement. BUT I think you should go upscale from that...so not yet.

 

Because you said you wanted a $900 amp, I addressed your question that way. I didn't bother repeating the good advice you've gotten from others here urging that you upgrade other things first. I *should* have said that. I agree that you would need to spend a lot, I think around $1600, to get a keeper amplifier. Understand, your amp should be perhaps your last purchase in any round of upgrades. It can easily last 20 years. So it's worth waiting until you *can* afford a great amp before buying.

 

Your B&K doesn't suck, I've heard lots of B&Ks over the years and consider them good, musical amps. You have plenty of power now. Those Paradigms should be able to rock pretty hard with circa 350 watts into 4 Ohms. So I think the advice on getting, say, an affordable DC supply makes sense. You could get an even-better DAC like the Schiit Bifrost Multibit for $600...that's a monster, I love it. I just now ordered a Modi Multibit for a gift. You could get some good outlets like Hubbell hospital-grade plugs and run fatter wire to dedicated breakers...it might fit that budget. Lots of choices. Your speakers would be happy with 1000W amps, but why bother until you can get truly great ones? I think you should research just what your amp power means, and decide how much you need.

 

Here's another off-topic but relevant post. I just pulled the Nord UP monos out of my system. No matter the hype my class A amp just sounds more natural, and better, in my opinion.

 

I applaud your speaker choice, I have the older SCM20SL (passive) which is about the same as the newer SCM19. Or did you get the SCM40s? What Class A amp are you trying out? How much muscle?

[Jamesroy]

I do expect the least expensive Nord, UcD-based (not as good as the nCore500-based models) would be an improvement. BUT I think you should go upscale from that...so not yet.

 

Because you said you wanted a $900 amp, I addressed your question that way. I didn't bother repeating the good advice you've gotten from others here urging that you upgrade other things first. I *should* have said that. I agree that you would need to spend a lot, I think around $1600, to get a keeper amplifier. Understand, your amp should be perhaps your last purchase in any round of upgrades. It can easily last 20 years. So it's worth waiting until you *can* afford a great amp before buying.

 

Your B&K doesn't suck, I've heard lots of B&Ks over the years and consider them good, musical amps. You have plenty of power now. Those Paradigms should be able to rock pretty hard with circa 350 watts into 4 Ohms. So I think the advice on getting, say, an affordable DC supply makes sense. You could get an even-better DAC like the Schiit Bifrost Multibit for $600...that's a monster, I love it. I just now ordered a Modi Multibit for a gift. You could get some good outlets like Hubbell hospital-grade plugs and run fatter wire to dedicated breakers...it might fit that budget. Lots of choices. Your speakers would be happy with 1000W amps, but why bother until you can get truly great ones? I think you should research just what your amp power means, and decide how much you need.

 

 

 

I applaud your speaker choice, I have the older SCM20SL (passive) which is about the same as the newer SCM19. Or did you get the SCM40s? What Class A amp are you trying out? How much muscle?

Thanks I'm sticking with my B&K for awhile.

[Sal1950]

Thanks I'm sticking with my B&K for awhile.

miniDSP, $799.00 will buy you possibly the biggest increase in SQ you'll ever purchase for that amount of money.

Surely more than any LPS can deliver.

https://www.minidsp.com/dirac-series/ddrc-22d

miniDSP DDRC-22D Dirac Live® 24/96 Room Correction Audio Processor Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com