Next step up of Power Amp

[Jamesroy]

miniDSP, $799.00 will buy you possibly the biggest increase in SQ you'll ever purchase for that amount of money.

Surely more than any LPS can deliver.

https://www.minidsp.com/dirac-series/ddrc-22d

miniDSP DDRC-22D Dirac Live® 24/96 Room Correction Audio Processor Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Will that replace my REGEN and ifi NANO iDSD?

[Sal1950]

Will that replace my REGEN and ifi NANO iDSD?

 

Yes and yes.

Had to take a look at your ifi DAC to find out it only offers USB input and the miniDSP unit I pointed you to only offers SPDIF's out.

Now miniDSP also offers a different box the has the DAC built in but it is PCM only.

https://www.minidsp.com/dirac-series/ddrc-22da

If you have made much investment in DSD music files and are really concerned about DSD playback you may want to think about it a bit. Any DSP room correction is not compatible with DSD in any case.

IMO DSP offers more in real world SQ improvement for all of the PCM music you own, than DSD over PCM, but YMMV. The only way for you to know for sure would be to get the gear and listen.

The good news is you could then have both digital from ends running into your preamp and be able to switch between the two with a flick of the switch.

Your call, but understand DSP is the future of audio playback. It has already ruled the home theater and pro music scenes for some time, audiophiles are a bit behind the curve.

[Jud]

Yes and yes.

Had to take a look at your ifi DAC to find out it only offers USB input and the miniDSP unit I pointed you to only offers SPDIF's out.

Now miniDSP also offers a different box the has the DAC built in but it is PCM only.

https://www.minidsp.com/dirac-series/ddrc-22da

 

To eliminate any confusion, the answers regarding the original recommendation are no regarding the Regen (because the Regen is made specifically for a USB connection to the DAC, and the box Sal originally recommended is not a DAC nor does it use USB for audio input), and no regarding replacing your DAC, since the original recommendation does not include a DAC. The answers regarding the different box on the web page Sal links to above are still no regarding the Regen (again because this box doesn't use a USB connection for audio input), and yes regarding the DAC (because the box Sal links to includes a DAC). The DAC itself has more limited capabilities for music playback than the one Jamesroy already owns.

 

If you have made much investment in DSD music files and are really concerned about DSD playback you may want to think about it a bit. Any DSP room correction is not compatible with DSD in any case.

 

I don't know if Miska's HQPlayer will allow use of DSP (digital signal processing, usually adjustment of frequency response) with DSD files, but it will allow use of DSP with files that it converts to DSD (the DSP is applied before conversion to DSD.) So yes, DSP room correction can be applied while happily listening to DSD running through your DAC, and in fact this is quite possible with Jamesroy's current DAC and MacBook Pro, though not with the $799 substitute you are recommending.

 

IMO DSP offers more in real world SQ improvement for all of the PCM music you own, than DSD over PCM, but YMMV. The only way for you to know for sure would be to get the gear and listen.

The good news is you could then have both digital from ends running into your preamp and be able to switch between the two with a flick of the switch.

Your call, but understand DSP is the future of audio playback. It has already ruled the home theater and pro music scenes for some time, audiophiles are a bit behind the curve.

 

Certainly DSP would likely create a greater change in sound than most other changes Jamesroy might make, other than changes to the layout of his listening room (which could be as substantial as moving furniture, but could be as slight as moving his speakers a few inches). That's because it's the intent of DSP to change the original input signal, while all the other changes recommended here so far have been intended to more accurately bring the original input signal to the speakers. Many people think this is a great thing, while others don't feel this is the way for them. (I personally am not big on it because most DSP filters are minimum phase, which I don't feel works very well with my system, particularly my speakers.)

 

If Jamesroy wants to try DSP, the Umik-1 microphone is available for $75 and there is free DSP software that works very well with it. (https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 and https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew) I would also recommend Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" book and DVD set for $50, which contains thorough instructions on setting up a listening room. (Get Better Sound - Online Store)

 

That's a total of $125 versus $800, and Jamesroy would wind up with an education in listening room layout that would serve him well whether or not he wants to use DSP, plus a DAC (the one he already owns) that is capable of playing higher resolution PCM and DSD files that the Dirac DAC cannot.

[Sal1950]

To eliminate any confusion, the answers regarding the original recommendation are no regarding the Regen (because the Regen is made specifically for a USB connection to the DAC, and the box Sal originally recommended is not a DAC nor does it use USB for audio input), and no regarding replacing your DAC, since the original recommendation does not include a DAC. The answers regarding the different box on the web page Sal links to above are still no regarding the Regen (again because this box doesn't use a USB connection for audio input), and yes regarding the DAC (because the box Sal links to includes a DAC). The DAC itself has more limited capabilities for music playback than the one Jamesroy already owns.

 

 

 

I don't know if Miska's HQPlayer will allow use of DSP (digital signal processing, usually adjustment of frequency response) with DSD files, but it will allow use of DSP with files that it converts to DSD (the DSP is applied before conversion to DSD.) So yes, DSP room correction can be applied while happily listening to DSD running through your DAC, and in fact this is quite possible with Jamesroy's current DAC and MacBook Pro, though not with the $799 substitute you are recommending.

 

 

 

Certainly DSP would likely create a greater change in sound than most other changes Jamesroy might make, other than changes to the layout of his listening room (which could be as substantial as moving furniture, but could be as slight as moving his speakers a few inches). That's because it's the intent of DSP to change the original input signal, while all the other changes recommended here so far have been intended to more accurately bring the original input signal to the speakers. Many people think this is a great thing, while others don't feel this is the way for them. (I personally am not big on it because most DSP filters are minimum phase, which I don't feel works very well with my system, particularly my speakers.)

 

If Jamesroy wants to try DSP, the Umik-1 microphone is available for $75 and there is free DSP software that works very well with it. (https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 and https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew) I would also recommend Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" book and DVD set for $50, which contains thorough instructions on setting up a listening room. (Get Better Sound - Online Store)

 

That's a total of $125 versus $800, and Jamesroy would wind up with an education in listening room layout that would serve him well whether or not he wants to use DSP, plus a DAC (the one he already owns) that is capable of playing higher resolution PCM and DSD files that the Dirac DAC cannot.

 

You seem to be mis-reading his questions or just trying to confuse the issue.

"Will that replace my REGEN and ifi NANO iDSD?"

Still yes and yes as neither would have been compatible with the first SPDIF only box I recommended and so would no longer be usable. Same with the second box I linked as it would replace his whole current front end and the Regen would have no USB signal to effect.

 

The only way to do DSP in conjunction with DSD is to,

1. Process a original PCM file before resampling to DSD.

2. Resample a DSD file to PCM, process it, then resample back to DSD. It could be done in a couple of ways but seems a bit convoluted and silly IMO DSD will soon be history in any case, it's at a dead end.

 

There are a number of ways to accomplish DSP. The fully integrated Dirac Live system would make the whole process 10 times more user friendly, not requiring the huge learning curve of the path you mention. A mid road approach in both complexity and cost would be using the AcourateDRC software $90, and a $395 OpenDRC box w/mic.

 

I'm sure Jamesroy has now been fully confused and scared off DSP, further discussion is fruitless.

[Jud]

 

There are a number of ways to accomplish DSP. The fully integrated Dirac Live system would make the whole process 10 times more user friendly, not requiring the huge learning curve of the path you mention.

 

Let's see - Your "10 times more user friendly" method requires learning the Umik-1, same as mine; learning DSP software, same as mine (except instructions for using the software I suggested are right at the Umik-1 website); and unlike mine, learning to use a new DAC. Oh, and $675 extra, which doesn't seem too friendly to the user.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Let's see - Your "10 times more user friendly" method requires learning the Umik-1, same as mine; learning DSP software, same as mine (except instructions for using the software I suggested are right at the Umik-1 website); and unlike mine, learning to use a new DAC. Oh, and $675 extra, which doesn't seem too friendly to the user.

 

It is easy to dismiss or deny it, especially if you have not tried it, but Dirac calibration is actually much simpler and more user friendly than learning to use and apply REW for a first time user. They are not close. Of course, if you place no $ value on your own time in learning, REW is cheap indeed. I also think the notion that equivalent results are obtainable, especially in the time domain due to Dirac's mixed filters, is highly debatable.

 

$675? Isn't that the price for a full 8 channel version of Dirac for a PC or MAC? The stereo version is about half that price.

 

Incidentally, I agree with Sal. DSP EQ, even if it requires conversion of DSD to PCM, is easily worthwhile vs. "Pure" DSD playback. My DAC handles either, and DSP EQ wins easily.

[17629v2]

"I have been doing some research but most of you guys know more than I."

 

Kilroy is right. Some of us may know more than you, but that doesn't mean you should buy something based on our recommendations. Regardless of what anyone tells you, we all have different taste in gear, and no one can say the sound quality of one design is better than another. The only thing worse than buying a component that you don't like, is when you let someone else make the decision for you. Then it really hurts.

[Jamesroy]

Let's see - Your "10 times more user friendly" method requires learning the Umik-1, same as mine; learning DSP software, same as mine (except instructions for using the software I suggested are right at the Umik-1 website); and unlike mine, learning to use a new DAC. Oh, and $675 extra, which doesn't seem too friendly to the user.

So what is your thoughts on [h=1]DDRC-22DA[/h]Digital to Analog Dirac Live® correction DSP with SPDIF/AES-EBU/Toslink Input

800 bucks

I guess I'll have to see how much I can get for my REGEB and ifi NANO DSD

[Jud]

So what is your thoughts on DDRC-22DA

 

Digital to Analog Dirac Live® correction DSP with SPDIF/AES-EBU/Toslink Input

800 bucks

I guess I'll have to see how much I can get for my REGEB and ifi NANO DSD

 

Here are your choices:

 

- Do nothing. $0

 

- Spend $50 on Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" book and DVD set to learn how to set up your listening room for best sound; plus $75 for an Umik-1 microphone and free Room EQ Wizard software to help you with the setup suggestions in the Smith book and DVDs, and perhaps for some DSP (digital signal processing) adjustments to your sound if you can't get everything sounding great by just moving stuff around. Total of $125 but maximum time and learning effort on your part to master the DSP software.

 

- Spend $321 for Acourate room correction software plus $75 for the Umik-1 mike. Total of $396 for more user friendly DSP software, though you'd forego the Jim Smith Book and DVD set.

 

- Spend $395 for an OpenDRC hardware box plus Umik-1 mike and $91 for a dedicated version of Acourate room correction software to use with it. $486 total for somewhat less effort and time spent learning DSP software, though you'd miss out on Jim Smith's book on room setup unless you wanted to go for another $50.

 

- Spend $437 for Dirac Live, the Cadillac of room correction software, plus $75 for the Umik-1 mike. Total of $512 for very powerful and easier to use DSP software, but foregoing Jim Smith's room setup advice.

 

- Spend $800 on the DDRC-22DA DAC with Umik-1 mike and Dirac software included. You'd have the nice software and the mike, but the DAC isn't as capable in some areas as the one you currently have, and you'd forego Jim Smith's room setup advice.

 

Those are the choices I'm aware of on the DSP (digital signal processing) path. Others may suggest yet more options. Up to you which if any sounds most attractive to you.

[Sal1950]

Without getting into any preference for one system over the other, I think you might find it valuable to read just the first eight or nine paragraphs of this tutorial on Acourate DSP. Not really for the praise of Acourate over any other, but more so for Bob Katz and Dominique Bassal's opinion on DSP and room correction in general.

Jud's eval of the systems is pretty fair, there's a lot of info here and elsewhere, do a bit of homework

One point is if you look at something like the Dirac DRC/DAC, don't sell anything till you've listened for a while, you might decide it's worth it to keep both.

[Jamesroy]

Without getting into any preference for one system over the other, I think you might find it valuable to read just the first eight or nine paragraphs of this tutorial on Acourate DSP. Not really for the praise of Acourate over any other, but more so for Bob Katz and Dominique Bassal's opinion on DSP and room correction in general.

Jud's eval of the systems is pretty fair, there's a lot of info here and elsewhere, do a bit of homework

One point is if you look at something like the Dirac DRC/DAC, don't sell anything till you've listened for a while, you might decide it's worth it to keep both.

Wow I didn't expect that. My biggest problem with getting the book is some rooms are just not capable of redesign. Like mine with open space behind my sofa into the kitchen and a vaulted ceiling in my main room. There is just no other wall to have my system backed up against. Thank you all for your feedback. I'm finally convinced that I'll keep the power amp. One thing I haven't added to my equipment list on the form is I have a Klipsch Reference R-10SW sub which was fairly inexpensive and added some bottom end to my tall room.

[Sal1950]

Wow I didn't expect that. My biggest problem with getting the book is some rooms are just not capable of redesign. Like mine with open space behind my sofa into the kitchen and a vaulted ceiling in my main room. There is just no other wall to have my system backed up against. Thank you all for your feedback. I'm finally convinced that I'll keep the power amp. One thing I haven't added to my equipment list on the form is I have a Klipsch Reference R-10SW sub which was fairly inexpensive and added some bottom end to my tall room.

Dang, I forgot the actual link. Maybe you found it?

Computer Audiophile - Acourate Digital Room and Loudspeaker Correction Software Walkthrough

Forgive an old mans mis-adventure. LOL

Cheers

[Jamesroy]

Dang, I forgot the actual link. Maybe you found it?

Computer Audiophile - Acourate Digital Room and Loudspeaker Correction Software Walkthrough

Forgive an old mans mis-adventure. LOL

Cheers

68 yr's old here

[Jamesroy]

Dang, I forgot the actual link. Maybe you found it?

Computer Audiophile - Acourate Digital Room and Loudspeaker Correction Software Walkthrough

Forgive an old mans mis-adventure. LOL

Cheers

So this is now something different from Dirac Live Room Correction Suite?

[Sal1950]

So this is now something different from Dirac Live Room Correction Suite?

 

Yes, take another quick look at Jud's last post for a quick over view.

I know it can be very confusing. At the most basic DRC (Digital Room Correction) takes a measurement of your systems frequency response at the listening chair with a microphone, then creates a filter to make corrections so that response will be flat. Then somehow introduces that correcting file into your system.

There are a number of different software's available to take the measurement and create the correcting file. Then there are a number of different ways the correcting file can be introduced into the system. Each has various means of hand holding available to get you from A-Z.

Some are quite easy to learn, others not so.

[Jamesroy]

Yes, take another quick look at Jud's last post for a quick over view.

I know it can be very confusing. At the most basic DRC (Digital Room Correction) takes a measurement of your systems frequency response at the listening chair with a microphone, then creates a filter to make corrections so that response will be flat. Then somehow introduces that correcting file into your system.

There are a number of different software's available to take the measurement and create the correcting file. Then there are a number of different ways the correcting file can be introduced into the system. Each has various means of hand holding available to get you from A-Z.

Some are quite easy to learn, others not so.

I'm 68 I need the easy ones? Please?

[Sal1950]

I'm 68 I need the easy ones? Please?

Fully understood!

So we fall back to my original recommendation of the miniDSP Dirac system. Get the DDRC-22DA box you asked about and you can just plug in a toslink feed from your Audivarna and into the preamp. After working thru the measurement routine you'll be ready to go.

And be instantly able to compare by just switch between inputs on the pre-amp.

In the end if your not happy for any reason, you could put the rig for sale here or ebay and get 75% of your money back pretty fast.

[Jamesroy]

Fully understood!

So we fall back to my original recommendation of the miniDSP Dirac system. Get the DDRC-22DA box you asked about and you can just plug in a toslink feed from your Audivarna and into the preamp. After working thru the measurement routine you'll be ready to go.

And be instantly able to compare by just switch between inputs on the pre-amp.

In the end if your not happy for any reason, you could put the rig for sale here or ebay and get 75% of your money back pretty fast.

Thanks but why not just send it back to where I bought it and get 100% back?

[Jud]

Wow I didn't expect that. My biggest problem with getting the book is some rooms are just not capable of redesign. Like mine with open space behind my sofa into the kitchen and a vaulted ceiling in my main room. There is just no other wall to have my system backed up against. Thank you all for your feedback.

 

As I mentioned earlier, Jim Smith's book has all sorts of suggestions, including many that don't require a lot of rearranging. As a result of one suggestion I moved my speakers 10 inches, which resulted in an improvement.

 

Getting things set up as well as you can in your room within the constraints you have relates to digital room correction the same way getting a photo set up correctly in the first place relates to Photoshop manipulation.

[Jamesroy]

Here are your choices:

 

- Do nothing. $0

 

- Spend $50 on Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" book and DVD set to learn how to set up your listening room for best sound; plus $75 for an Umik-1 microphone and free Room EQ Wizard software to help you with the setup suggestions in the Smith book and DVDs, and perhaps for some DSP (digital signal processing) adjustments to your sound if you can't get everything sounding great by just moving stuff around. Total of $125 but maximum time and learning effort on your part to master the DSP software.

 

- Spend $321 for Acourate room correction software plus $75 for the Umik-1 mike. Total of $396 for more user friendly DSP software, though you'd forego the Jim Smith Book and DVD set.

 

- Spend $395 for an OpenDRC hardware box plus Umik-1 mike and $91 for a dedicated version of Acourate room correction software to use with it. $486 total for somewhat less effort and time spent learning DSP software, though you'd miss out on Jim Smith's book on room setup unless you wanted to go for another $50.

 

- Spend $437 for Dirac Live, the Cadillac of room correction software, plus $75 for the Umik-1 mike. Total of $512 for very powerful and easier to use DSP software, but foregoing Jim Smith's room setup advice.

 

- Spend $800 on the DDRC-22DA DAC with Umik-1 mike and Dirac software included. You'd have the nice software and the mike, but the DAC isn't as capable in some areas as the one you currently have, and you'd forego Jim Smith's room setup advice.

 

Those are the choices I'm aware of on the DSP (digital signal processing) path. Others may suggest yet more options. Up to you which if any sounds most attractive to you.

It sounds like with all your choices may have a difficult time learning the DSP software. I mean I saw some charts and sound and to me It looked like a I would have to be a sound engineer. I didn't see you mention Dirac Live Room Correction Suite?

[Jud]

I didn't see you mention Dirac Live Room Correction Suite?

 

?? See the last two choices.

[Jamesroy]

?? See the last two choices.

OK thanks I didn't read it close enough. Did you use any of these?

[Jud]

OK thanks I didn't read it close enough. Did you use any of these?

 

Nope, haven't tried them. I plan to move some time in the next year, so I may get the mike and try the free DSP software as part of getting things set up as well as possible in the new place. I find the "difficult" software often helps me understand things a little better and actually makes it easier for me in the end, but that's just my own learning style.

[Jamesroy]

Nope, haven't tried them. I plan to move some time in the next year, so I may get the mike and try the free DSP software as part of getting things set up as well as possible in the new place. I find the "difficult" software often helps me understand things a little better and actually makes it easier for me in the end, but that's just my own learning style.

I'm in a tight finical situation so thats why all the questions. What mic would you be purchasing? They offer Dirac Live Room Correction Suite demo I'm trying to download it but what good would it be without there mic. I've already ask them that but haven't got a response.

[Jud]

What mic would you be purchasing?

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1