HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[Bimmer100]

35 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

I couldn't get the old Holo and new Singxer driver to co-exist. I had to uninstall one, then re-install the other to compare them. Not the best way to do a comparison, but I was curious. Don't know if the two new drivers can coexist. Sounds like they might, according to Tim.

They are signed drivers which means one device per driver...

my setup is HoloAudio drivers via usb on spring Dac 

and singxer drivers via usb on su1

 

 

coexist? Sure I guess. But you can swap the driver for each device. However I doubt you can compare each driver as having any difference in sound quality whatsoever. However they are slightly improved from previous version

[Bimmer100]

20 minutes ago, elan120 said:

This sounds like the case here...on the other hand, the hew Holo driver playing upsampled DSD512 seem to be quite good.  I will need to take some more time to see whether it is same or better than the Singxer driver.

Same  

comparison wont be worth the effort to be honest. I believe the version on our site has a Kitsunetuned logo on the systray icon. I might update the singxer driver to have a different systray icon than a generic window. Personally I think it’s hard to see or distinguish the program with that icon being so generic

 

My of has over 20 items in the systray. I like having the kitsune logo as it’s easy to spot in midst of many programs in the systray 

[Bimmer100]

2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Curious to hear if it's any better than the new Singxer driver... although I find this hard to imagine, since they are most likely based on the same XMOS driver template.

 

No, don’t bother wasting your time

[Bimmer100]

On 12/13/2017 at 2:23 PM, Boleary3 said:

I have an opportunity to hear this DAC, Kitsune edition,  in my room but have a few questions. I currently have an Yaggdrasil and I don't use a pre-amp. Volume is controlled digitally via XXHighEnd playback software. Can the HOLO DAC be run without a pre-amp? Anyone tried it? Thanks in advance for replies.

Depends on your gear. One of my setups I have a KTE spring and elac element amp to power elac uf5 slim towers. Another setup I use a iFi pro ican which actually can be used as a killer preamp  

 

we recommend you strongly consider XLR balanced with your amp to pre amp. Sound quality will be optimal and much better common mode noise rejection. But it’s not the end of the world if you have to use rca SE. however if you are in the market to buy new gear than choose balanced!  And I don’t want to start any argument with anyone about balance vs single ended.: spare me, spare us all.  My recommendations stand for xlr/balanced.

[Bimmer100]

I apologize for bringing up the subject of balanced and SE. good lord we have gone off on a tangent when the topic is suppose to be the Dac. Lol

 

I should have known better.  

[Bimmer100]

Please contact me again about that fuse. Depending on when you bought it and what model, that may of been a possibility. But reach out to me again with our contact form. It seems if you sent a message it may of been stopped with captcha or wasn’t completed. I’m happy to help with that.

 

for the record, the dac has a massive O type transformer. Only the Kitsunehifi models have dual switching trafo. 110/220.

and yes. 2A SB 5x20mm is for 220v and it will actually run with this fuse. But barely, and only with stable power. But it will blow eventually with the right conditions. But with average power usually will blow fairly soon. 

 

For 110v the correct fuse is indeed 4A SB 5x20mm

this is with worst case scenario a fuse that will also blow and protect the dac but under very unlikely conditions a fuse ever will blow unless it’s either incorrect value or serious power issues

but that is what fuses are for. 

 

Hopefully will hear from you soon,  tubedriver. I don’t know your name so can’t look up your order. Otherwise I would of contacted you directly.  I want to be sure you are taken care of. 

[Bimmer100]

A few quick responses.

thr new v4.55.0 driver is only for spring2 and not for spring 1. So please do not use this driver since it will not work. 

 

And at this time there is no upgrade for spring1 to spring2. We continued to bring out spring2 as an evolution of the spring1. They are very similar in performance. And we are using components that should not have supply issues like with the spring1. We are confident this is every bit as good as the spring1 was and have some new features that our customers had asked for. Such as the remote control (L2 and KTE models only) and also less hot analog outputs. Spring1 is 5v/2.5v for XLR/RCA and Spring2 is 4v/2v for XLR/RCA. So those with sensitive preamps it will be a better match to use spring2. Really little difference but small change for those who requested this. The new display has more data, or 3 information areas to show sample rate, digital input and mode(NOS or OS etc) 

the dac module is improved slightly to support dsd1024 and pcm1.536M however will require a fairly fast computer to upsample to these rates as one may imagine. The same src is used as spring1.

the usb module is improved quite a bit as far as firmware goes. It has over twice the efficiency as the standard firmware and optimized for the new dac module. 

The overall spring1 vs spring2 comparisons are marginal and was not released to be considered an upgrade of the spring1 but rather a continuance or an already great dac with a few improvements. Personally I would not strongly recommend anyone to “upgrade” from spring1 to spring2 since it’s a somewhat small difference imho. Otherwise we would of changed the name if we felt it was a big enough difference or improvement from the spring1. We do have a few units that will be available to those who would like to review the spring2, just contact me about this directly. Our May dac will be a step above and our official flagship dac due for release in the near future. The May will be a two chassis design and having the most advanced architecture for the dac module, also most advanced power supply circuit. Abother notable feature will be the high spec preamp and headamp that is based on our Azure which has 8amp modules and over 400transistors. as well as some new innovations that may come as a surprise. This will be an exciting release.

 

 

and lastly one commmented about psu with the spring as having two transformers. The second one is specifically when in standby (spring1) or mute (spring2) - this mode swaps from otype to sealed trafo and turns off the output stage. Essentially mute and standby are the same and save a small amount of power yet keeps the dac module at ideal thermal stability. The otype is a much better transformer and capable to handle the dac when under load. The sealed transformer is enough for sitting idle. It’s not a common feature you will find in other products so wanted to clarify on this.

 

hope this helps answer everyone’s questions.

 

[Bimmer100]

Please note. This is a new product and we had report yesterday of some bug/glitch related to volume control within the operating system. One user had reported this glitch where volume has remained at 100% within the operating system control. We were able to recreate the issue and addressed this immediately. We are testing and finalizing a new firmware for the usb module to address this issue. Should be available on our website today or tomorrow. Some users may want to load this firmware whom already taken delivery of their spring2. Instructions will be avail on our website on how to do this.

 

best

-Tim

[Bimmer100]

@mevdinc

 

the best I can tell you is 2019 and likely midyear. 

[Bimmer100]

Please be sure you are loading the firmware to the correct usb module. Instructions are included. This firmware update applies to models that have the Xu208 xmos module. Not the earlier xmos U8 module found in early Spring v1 dacs. 

[Bimmer100]

You must have windows pc to update firmware. Which all firmware for all Xu208 modules are included in this driver pack in a different folder with instructions.

 

only windows allows update of firmware. 

Those with Linux will need to figure on borrowing a windows laptop or something.

 

 

[Bimmer100]

Basically to find out if your module is xmos U8 or XU208 you will need to find out its firmware. It can be found in windows7/8/8.1/10 etc. the systray is where our drivers have the Asio control panel. A small icon to open up the program and find its firmware version.

any firmware that is 20.00 or newer is xu208. If the firmware is less than this than it is u8. Example : 16.95 is U8 xmos. 

 

Common firmwares for Xu208 May be 20.16-21.16 etc. and each is specific for the model. Like cyan dsd or pcm, Spring1 or spring2. 

[Bimmer100]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Does it have any effect on the DAC (SQ?) if one is using the Spring's I2S input?  In other words, is this only firmware for the XMOS chip? I am assuming so.

 

This is only firmware for the usb input. As Hdmi i2s does not use xmos. I2S users can ignore this update if they chose to.

 

there are multiple firmware on the dac, and this is simply just for usb input. Sorry if there was some confusion.

[Bimmer100]

37 minutes ago, TubeDriver said:

 

I'll answer my own question.  I updated my Holo Spring 1 with UX208 board to the 21.16 firmware.  Works fine and the sound is much more focused and holographic now.  Surprisingly different, you need to hear this to believe it.  I had upgraded the USB board a while back (U8 to UX208) and never updated the firmware until now.

 

Sorry I didn’t reply earlier. But yes. This is for all Xu208 modules in our products. This firmware is a nice improvement as many have commented so far. It’s highly optimized compared to standard xmos firmware that is used in many other products on the market. 

 

 

[Bimmer100]

12 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I tried to make a warranty claim a while back for my Cyan DSD (left channel noise) but Holo never responded to me. Are they still in business?

Yes, Holoaudio is doing well.

did you purchase at KitsuneHiFi? Or where from? Let me know and I’ll get things rolling for you if need be. Forward me any emails if you tried contacting us, and I’ll help you out.

 

 

best

-Tim

KitsuneHiFi and HoloAudioUSA

 

[Bimmer100]

Looks like you contacted us on Jan16th 2019. We replied jan 18th 2019 and again jan 22nd 2019 confirming a warranty claim and was preparing a replacement unit. We had never recirved any follow up emails from you so we figured maybe you the issue resolved itself as being something  else or if it persisted than you would have directly contacted us some time from Jan 2018 til now. Good thing I check these forums often. Our email response likely ended up in your junk folder or was overlooked?. However you could have tried to contact us again. 

If for any reason anyone contacts us and we don’t get back to you within a couple business days, just shoot us another email. We usually reply to 99.9% or all emails right away. In this case we still did, but must assume your junk mail folder caught this email. 

 

Your dac is still under 3 year warranty and you purchased it dec2017.  No worries. It’s a quick and painless process to get a replacement. It’s a very uncommon thing for this to happen. You actually were the 5th customer to purchase a cyan? And only a very small percentage of the first batch had a known issue that was quickly remedied and all other dacs are rock solid reliable. We replaced all dacs that had any issues. Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Best

 

-Tim

 

[Bimmer100]

The May dac is complete or finalized for L1 and L2 models but we are working on the KTE still. As some parts for this model are in production and hope to be ready at end of this month to early Jan. Will be accepting preorders soon however. The May dac you may have seen at audio science review was loaned from Jeff for that particular situation. It’s NOT a production color chassis and a special edition for demo use. Basically a way to mark them for demo/not for resale. They are bronze and red. These will not be sold. The final version is black chassis and copper sides/buttons as all have grown to love. Our company colors essentially. 
but I have a demo model May as well, and will be arranging/scheduling demos to reviewers who are interested. The Demo Model I have is also L2 model. 
 

and yes, it’s epic. I’m quite thrilled with this dac and cannot wait to hear from everyone on their thoughts too! If you had read the review already you may know it’s likely the best measured r2r dac, and measures better than many OS dacs as well. Truly an engineering achievement.

 

[Bimmer100]

1 hour ago, exdmd said:

Holo Audio May is not officially released yet but ASR managed to get a pre-release review sample supposedly out later this year. Since ASR believes DACs that measure well all sound the same there is absolutely no indication of how it sounds.

For those familiar with our sound signature. The May dac has the known house sound we are known for. It’s more refined with even better sound staging. Basically like a Spring2 on steroids. It’s surely a dac that sets the bar.

 

We have done some improvements to the design as one may see in the photos. There is a dedicated dac module for each channel. And they have been vastly improved. The KTE model will have hand picked modules that also will have emi/rf shielding for each that will be black and copper finish. We have some exclusive components this time around and those with a trained eye will notice some special things in our dac.  The transformers are a very unique flatwire design that has outperformed even silver wire transformers with lower noise and leakage than anything we have tested. Basically the ideal transformer for audio. And there are two of them this time. So you may wonder if it consumes more power... yes, and we had built in a slow start circuit when powered up. Unlike the spring or spring2 which powers on from the backside only. The May powers up from the back however does not turn on until the front power button is pushed and held down for a few seconds. This is the slow start circuit and many customers requested to have access to the power in the front instead of reaching around to the back... this can be difficult for some setups with restricted access. 
 

the May dac has a significantly improved screen that is exclusive to the model. It had fantastic viewing angles and very good contrast levels. It looks generally the same at first glance, however notably better if one was to compare to other models. And many may have read about our PLL circuit? It’s world class to say the least. Note that jitter is basically a thing of the past as all the digital inputs are reclocked and you will get incredible performance from any of the digital devices you hook up to the May dac. I think most users will have a jaw dropping experience from this feature. We probably spent more time in R&D perfecting this key feature of the May.  Jeff has said he would not be surprised if this might be the strongest PLL in the audio in the industry.

below is a 1khz sine wave (750ns) with PLL enabled and also disabled in other image.  Basically at this level is immune to jitter.

 

[Bimmer100]

11 hours ago, ted_b said:

Tim,

I'm VERY interested once the room is done, but by then others will hopefully have chimed in.  Nice work by you, Jeff (of course) and others.  What are the PCM/DSD rates available?

 

Really wish ASR 7 page "review" thread would have had at least some words about sq. 

Let’s just say it won’t dissapoint! I’m confident in saying that. I’m loving this dac and truly excited to get it to you if you would like to test it. Then you can give your feedback.

 

 

[Bimmer100]

10 hours ago, rickca said:

ASR review says $4K.  I guess the Kitsune edition will be more.

Price for the L1 is actually just a bit little under 4K.

and L2 is just a over 4K and KTE is Under 5K a bit.

 

final prices will be up late this month 

[Bimmer100]

On 12/10/2019 at 5:42 PM, Milt99 said:

To be accurate, the much reviled(here) Amir did not do the measurements.

It was done independently by a member in China who also measured the Spring LVL 2.

He did a few more measurements requested by forum members

 

I point blank asked him about the SQ, he replied that he really liked it and was seriously considering buying the demo unit.

IMO, this could be serious competition for the Terminator.

I would say that Holo Audio has come up with a winna

 

If Amir was to contact me I could arrange for him to test it too. I believe he is a local member of the audio club here. Pacific Northwest Audio Society. 
 

hopefully will have the KTE May early Jan.

[Bimmer100]

53 minutes ago, analogue said:

Haven't gone thru this thread, nor am that knowledgeable about the HOLO r2r dac.

So here are some questions:

 

Is the "base" dac of the HOLO sourced from an OEM? E.g., Soekris?

Is there any similarity (OEM or otherwise) to DENAFRIPS (also a discrete r2r dac, AFAIK).

We do not source our dac module from anyone. We have designed them completely from scratch. Our own design and implementing unique tech like our linear compensation. There is a specific Parallel resistor networks for pcm content with its advanced architecture as well as a dedicated resistor network for dsd content. There isn’t really anything like it. 
so I hope this answers your question. And no, not really anything similar between them other than they are discrete. 

[Bimmer100]

7 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

 

Tim, I don't know if Amir would solicit a loan from you but I'm positive if you contacted him he would be happy to measure the May.

He seems to be really into this as are the forum members & it wouldn't hurt sales

Plus it would be great to see the production version of the May.

Forum members, including myself, like to see the insides of the gear as well.

I think your products have a distinct advantage over Denafrips with you being located in the US.

Best of luck with the new product, it measures superbly, looks great & exudes quality & great design, imo.

Milt, the May that was measured was a Level 2 May dac. There is no difference from the retail dac other than the chassis color. So that is what you can expect for Level 2 May dac. 
the KTE version will have a couple other changes to it. As does the L1

 

all the retail versions come in the classic black and copper finish. 
 

the demo models are that champagne and red color to distinguish them “not for resale”. Basically we were playing with colors and didn’t want the handful of chassis to go to waste so made them into demo models but they have the full on retail electronic components if you will.

 

 

[Bimmer100]

57 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Thanks, Tim.

I figured as much.

Clever idea making unique demo units never seen that before.

 

Sorry but I likely would pass on the May in the demo finish compared to the Spring.

Yeah, I love excellent SQ but I also love understated gear design.

I'm superficial that way 😎

OTOH with a decent discount...

Yea, personally I don’t care for the champagne and red either. And will not be any option for anyone who wants one. As they simply are not available! Only black and copper!!

[Bimmer100]

9 minutes ago, Foggie said:

@Bimmer100 Has there been any discussion in designing an Ethernet input to the Holo DACs?

There has been discussion of a DDC with Ethernet however cannot really say much more. But it won’t be anytime soon. We have this May dac to finish up with the KTE model and next will be working on the Serene flagship headamp/preamp. More will be announced at that launch most likely.