Mystery revealed: UpTone Audio "UltraCap™ LPS-1"

[sandyk]

Thanks a lot Alex! The LT1963 looks very promising indeed since it is adjustable linear contruction. Better than anything else I have found so far on the consumer market (but have mainly searched for non-adjustable linear regulator though). It would be useful for many different setups. Your pre-caution are noted. I have just a couple of questions. The max current output is 1,5A. Is there a max current input as well? My BPS have a 3A output. Also, what happens when the voltage goes below the regulated value? Will the voltage be cut-off completely (ensuring no damage to the connected device)? If used with LPS-1 this would be interesting things to know.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Micael

It wouldn't matter if the supply was from a 100A.H. battery. The regulator will only draw the needed current to operate the device.There will be a lower fluctuating output voltage when the battery voltage is too low to provide the headroom necessary to remain in regulation, and it won't sound as good. Shortly after , I would expect the battery's internal protection to shut it down, resulting in no output, as if it has been switched off.

Alex

[Cornan]

Thanks Alex!

/Micael

[Superdad]

Hi Alex,

 

I'm looking forward to your release of the LPS-1 for my microRendu. Is the transferrable warranty and term going to be similar to the Regen. I love companies who back their products so well.

 

Thanks for your enthusiasm about the UltraCap™ LPS-1.

 

Yes, we intend to continue with the transferrable warranty policy, but a couple of things are weighing on my mind:

 

1) We of course can not cover misuse, and if someone fries the thing by using an inappropriate energizing supply (a non-regulated unit or one outside the specified current/voltage requirements), it would be good to have a way to know that. Our cost on the LPS-1 circuit board is going to be over $150, so swapping one out under warranty would be a much bigger hit than for something like a failed REGEN. (And we won't know about board repairability--always a daunting task on a complicated and dense surface mount design--until we see failures. Hopefully VERY few.)

 

2) We have had a few people contact us for repair of second-hand REGENs that we not functioning when they bought them. So far I have honored and repaired those, but I think it is quite inappropriate for someone to sell a non-functioning product with the expectation that the buyer will just get it swapped out with UpTone. To me that is taking advantage of our liberal policies, and if that keeps up I will have to get serious and write a formal, wordy warranty with restrictions.

 

Hopefully both of the above will be non-issuse with the LPS-1. But given that we price our products with far lower mark-up than traditional companies (overhead stays low by not advertising and not having a big staff), I do have to be sure our warranty policies don't back-fire on us. Of course, putting out reliable products is the first step.

 

Speaking of which, the powerful, beautiful, and incredibly reliable (only 1 field failure in 2+ years out of 300+ units) JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp, power-factor corrected, floating output ground, linear power supply is currently in stock with just 3 uncommitted units ready to ship. After these go (likely in just a week), we will be waiting on raw chassis, circuit boards, transformers, etc. for the next 50--so more finished JS-2s won't ship until mid-August. Anyone interested, please use the contact form on our web page if you want one this month or wish to reserve one from the mid-August dozen.

[sandyk]

Speaking of which, the powerful, beautiful, and incredibly reliable (only 1 field failure in 2+ years out of 300+ units) JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp, power-factor corrected, floating output ground, linear power supply

 

Perhaps due to being assembled with TLC, in a well suited environment, and painstakingly tested before despatch ? (smile)

[rickca]

That is correct Rick. We need to make one more round of preproduction boards. Too many significant (and physically/mentally challenging) hacks on the first ones to risk going straight to production once John incorporates them all.

 

But great progress is made every week, and you can bet that neither of us is wasting any time. But the board houses have turnaround times and this is a complex and expensive board.

 

So please don't make me guess just yet as to release date. I promise to post the moment production boards are on order with a delivery date.

Thanks all for your continued patience and enthusiasm.

Alex, I was simply trying to confirm that the John was still working with the pre-production board you got in early June, nothing more. I think it's awesome that you and John are being so open about your progress with the R&D process. It helps me appreciate the complexity of the project and how thoroughly you test your products.

[JohnSwenson]

Thanks John! Very nice and detailed explanation! Is there a simple way to know the amount of type 1 noises present on specific PSU's or is it only a matter of trial and error and getting the best possible power conditioner with line filter to limit the affects of type 1 noises (if using SPMS or LPS)?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Actually there are some types of power conditioners/filters that actually make the leakage current situation much worse. They have filters that deliberately couple higher frequency noise from hot/neutral to the safety ground pin (I assume because they presume that this "drains the noise" out of the mains) this can produce a much higher amount of leakage current on the GND pin only, which can cause really bizarre things to happen. Pair this with some forms of power conditioning that do some strange things with the safety GND and you can actually make big mess when trying to improve things.

 

There is no way ANY of this information is published by manufacturers and there is essentially nobody testing this stuff that knows this part of things and how to test for it. So yep, there is no way to tell.

 

John S.

[rickca]

I think it is quite inappropriate for someone to sell a non-functioning product with the expectation that the buyer will just get it swapped out with UpTone.

That's really pretty disgusting behavior.

[Cornan]

Actually there are some types of power conditioners/filters that actually make the leakage current situation much worse. They have filters that deliberately couple higher frequency noise from hot/neutral to the safety ground pin (I assume because they presume that this "drains the noise" out of the mains) this can produce a much higher amount of leakage current on the GND pin only, which can cause really bizarre things to happen. Pair this with some forms of power conditioning that do some strange things with the safety GND and you can actually make big mess when trying to improve things.

 

There is no way ANY of this information is published by manufacturers and there is essentially nobody testing this stuff that knows this part of things and how to test for it. So yep, there is no way to tell.

 

John S.

 

Thanks a lot John! By your brilliant posts I am starting to get a broader picture why external grounding make such a good improvement. I have noticed that different power filters sounds very different...from really good to really bad. Would it be a better option to use isolation power transformers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer plus a star grounded power strip (as for example Music Line Powerigel http://www.music-line.biz/cms/powerigel.500.0.html) instead of power conditioner/filter for the best result?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[rrwwss52]

Thanks for your enthusiasm about the UltraCap™ LPS-1.

 

Yes, we intend to continue with the transferrable warranty policy, but a couple of things are weighing on my mind:

 

1) We of course can not cover misuse, and if someone fries the thing by using an inappropriate energizing supply (a non-regulated unit or one outside the specified current/voltage requirements), it would be good to have a way to know that. Our cost on the LPS-1 circuit board is going to be over $150, so swapping one out under warranty would be a much bigger hit than for something like a failed REGEN. (And we won't know about board repairability--always a daunting task on a complicated and dense surface mount design--until we see failures. Hopefully VERY few.)

 

2) We have had a few people contact us for repair of second-hand REGENs that we not functioning when they bought them. So far I have honored and repaired those, but I think it is quite inappropriate for someone to sell a non-functioning product with the expectation that the buyer will just get it swapped out with UpTone. To me that is taking advantage of our liberal policies, and if that keeps up I will have to get serious and write a formal, wordy warranty with restrictions.

 

Hopefully both of the above will be non-issuse with the LPS-1. But given that we price our products with far lower mark-up than traditional companies (overhead stays low by not advertising and not having a big staff), I do have to be sure our warranty policies don't back-fire on us. Of course, putting out reliable products is the first step.

 

Speaking of which, the powerful, beautiful, and incredibly reliable (only 1 field failure in 2+ years out of 300+ units) JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp, power-factor corrected, floating output ground, linear power supply is currently in stock with just 3 uncommitted units ready to ship. After these go (likely in just a week), we will be waiting on raw chassis, circuit boards, transformers, etc. for the next 50--so more finished JS-2s won't ship until mid-August. Anyone interested, please use the contact form on our web page if you want one this month or wish to reserve one from the mid-August dozen.

 

Thanks Alex!

[JohnSwenson]

A quick update on the LPS-1 progress.

 

I have done everything I can on the existing prototype. There are quite a few hacks to the board. It is now working extremely well, running all voltages up to an amp ouput and running from several feeder supplies including the 7.5V MeanWell that comes with the regen.

 

Unfortunately many of the hacks are very fragile, so further attempts at testing cause them to break which takes a couple hours to track down what happened, then fix it ...

 

So I have stopped using this board (I'm not sure if I want to frame it and hang it on the wall or what) and went to putting all the changes into an updated board which hopefully will be the final pre-production prototype.

 

I have just finished the layout of the new board, I want to give it a couple days of staring at it to see if I come up with any problem, and then we send it off to get built. The way things have been going, probably somewhere around mid August (maybe), how is that for weasel words.

 

Due to the fragility of the current board I have not been able to do any listening tests, just functionality tests and some measurements.

 

I know it has been a long time coming, but it is finally working and working well.

 

John S.

[earnmyturns]

I know it has been a long time coming, but it is finally working and working well.

Thank you for your detailed LPS-1 development updates, they give us an inside view of good engineering practice that is too rarely seen. Junior engineers, in their youthful impatience and self-assurance, sometimes don't want to accept that you can only do so much debugging and patching before you have to redesign and build again, otherwise they spend most of their effort fixing new bugs introduced by their patches. Your development updates really bring this out!

[Astralark]

Hello everyone, I have a question. Does LPS-1 help to isolate noise to mR from AC ? Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Freann]

Yes. That is the reson for its existanse. As explained further up this thread.

[adamaley]

I may have missed it - does the LPS-1 have more than one power output?

 

Edit - no worries, found my answer.

[Superdad]

Quick update:

 

UltraCap LPS-1 cases are in and look great (pics later). The final pre-production boards arrived to John's place today and he is reporting excellent and full function of all circuits, with just one part change and some troubleshooting of the power-off reset circuit needed. That plus last programming and thermal tests (during my visit to his place last week I gave him a case to aid in thermal checks).

 

All the parts are at the board house, so after final PCB revisions and sending of files, the clock will start on production. Guess I'd best start work on a web page. :)

 

--Alex C.

[Distinctive]

So, I take it that a new PCB is not required for the remaining bugs?

[Superdad]

So, I take it that a new PCB is not required for the remaining bugs?

 

Well the PCB will be revised for production, but the changes are such that it won't require another round of expensive preproduction test boards--nor the extra time to wait for them. Thank goodness!

[rickca]

Very good news, Alex. Will the PnP machine you're getting for John's lab be able to produce a prototype board for something as complex as the UltraCap LPS-1?

[JohnSwenson]

Very good news, Alex. Will the PnP machine you're getting for John's lab be able to produce a prototype board for something as complex as the UltraCap LPS-1?

 

Yes, that is the idea, that I can do prototypes of any complexity myself, which will save a LOT of money and time. I just got the table it will be attached to put together, the kit is here, now I have to get it built!

 

The table is from Ikea, but it was on carpet, so I put some speaker spikes on a sheet of plywood and screw eyes on the top of the plywood and the bottom of the table top and used bungee cords to make trusses connecting them. Then I put two concrete blocks on the plywood, it is now VERY stable and rigid.

 

John S.

 

[JohnSwenson]

What you have all been waiting for -- LPS-1 listening tests!

 

I now have two LPS-1 boards that seem to be working perfectly so I decided to finally do a quick listening test.

 

The existing system is very simply: microRenu feeding Bottlehead DAC trhough my own custom designed "hard adapter", audio going to pair of Dave Slagle autoformer volume controls and then to the power amp, (only commercially bought part of the system), feeding the "bazookas" my own Lowther systems (suspended from the ceiling). The microRendu and DAC fed by a JS-2, so there are only two power supplies in the system.

 

This system is sounding REALLY good (I think Alex liked it too).

 

I added the LPS-1 after the JS-2, WOW, another big notch in realism, aliveness etc etc. The detail is even better, but it doesn't really seem like it, everything is now just realistically put together, nothing is "sticking out", it is just "organically" there. It has become almost impossible to listen to the sound, you are just drawn into the music.

 

Then I swapped out the JS-2 for the infamous 7.5V MeanWell, it wasn't quite as good, better than the JS-2 without the LPS-1, but not quite as good as the JS-2 driving the LPS-1. Who knows, it might be the infamous "SMPS" noise on the AC line getting into the power amp. Or not. But that supply was completely cold, it's getting a little better as it warms up.

 

So first ever impression of the LPS-1 is: WOW.

 

Now back to the salt mines.

 

John S.

 

PS more listening to come over the next few days.

[Distinctive]

Isn't this contradicting your initial statement that the quality of the PS that powers the LPS-1 won't matter? This might be the very reason for why acquiring the LPS-1 in the first place.....(?)

[jtwrace]

Isn't this contradicting your initial statement that the quality of the PS that powers the LPS-1 won't matter? This might be the very reason for why acquiring the LPS-1 in the first place.....(?)

 

Yes and it shouldn't from my experience. Doesn't really make sense.

[sandyk]

Yes and it shouldn't from my experience. Doesn't really make sense.

 

Just like John has said with his JS1, I find even the best of PSUs sound better followed by a JLH PSU add on, and even then, the type of preceding rectifier diodes, and the type and brand of the earlier filter capacitors still influences the sound too . As good as it is, the JLH PSU add-on can still be influenced by the quality of the preceding supply, and even whether it was an SMPS or a Linear PSU.

As I remarked earlier in the thread, I wouldn't be surprised if the different makes of ultra-caps sounded a little different too.

I used to believe that the better the system was, the less further SQ improvements you could make with further PSU improvements due to the law of diminishing returns, but this hasn't turned out to be correct, as the better the system is, the EASIER it seems to be to hear further improvements or changes.

[Distinctive]

The whole point with this PS was to completely eliminate any bad influence from the power feed, IMO (but I understand that this will not sell any JS-2's - Ahmmmmm.....). So there I said it!

So, I guess I am off the waiting list as it now seems.

[sandyk]

The whole point with this PS was to completely eliminate any bad influence from the power feed, IMO (but I understand that this will not sell any JS-2's - Ahmmmmm.....). So there I said it!

So, I guess I am off the waiting list as it now seems.

 

Is that REALLY possible ?

It does NOT mean that you can't achieve remarkable sounds improvements though.

In fact, a Sydney member and another friend are using JLH PSU add-ons in their servers from the already better than average supply rails from a HDPlex 300W PSU with quite worthwhile improvements when supplying internal SSDs and a USB Regen.

A Sydney E.E. friend once said the attached to me after a major PSU improvement using a JLH PSU add-on

It's funny, but it's not only that the SQ is better, it also seems to make the music more coherent so that it is captivating to listen to for its own sake. Result!

That's rather similar to what John is saying, isn't it ?