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Is this fake hi-res? An argument between vendors


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Album: Tord Gustavsen, "What was said"

 

At highresaudio.de, they offer the following note with this album:

Please Note: We offer this album in its native sampling rate of 44.1 kHz, 24-bit. The provided 96 kHz version was up-sampled and offers no audible value!

 

I like that they do this - and they do it often. Feel like they are protecting me from being ripped off.

 

But I saw that the other download sites are all offering this in 24/96, even those that have a good reputation for not selling upsampled material. So I wrote a couple of the other vendors:

 

Acc'd to competing site "hiresaudio.com" the native resolution of the album is 24/44.1, and not the 24/96 you are selling. They specifically say the 24/96 is an upsample.

 

Your response?

 

Here's the answer I received from prostudiomasters.com:

 

 

Thank you for your message and my apologies for the delay answering your question. I include below the response from our engineering team along with a promo code for a 20% discount with our compliments.

 

*************

 

We screen each incoming title for utilized frequency spectrum and bit resolution upon receipt. If the content of this title did originate from a 44.1 kHz source, we would not expect to observe legitimate musical content above 22.050 kHz.

 

Attached you will find three screenshots from our analyses of this title which demonstrate what appears to be legitimate musical content above 22.050 kHz. The first two (Tracks 3 and 4) contain vocals with upper partials reaching at least 28 kHz, without any trace of imaging artifacts. The second (Track 2) displays the noise-like spectrum of a closed hi-hat extending all the way until 48 kHz, the Nyquist limit of a 96 kHz file, which strongly suggests that the native sampling rate of this title is higher than 44.1 kHz.

 

All the best,

 

Jordan

ProStudioMasters Engineering Team

 

Here are the screenshots:

 

What_Was_Said_-_Track_3.png

 

What_Was_Said_-_Track_2.png

 

What_Was_Said_-_Track_4.png

 

 

 

First, just for giving me such a serious answer, I'll probably buy a couple of albums from them.

 

Second, what do you guys think?

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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First, just for giving me such a serious answer, I'll probably buy a couple of albums from them.
I am a regular customer of ProStudioMasters. In many cases, they sell the same hi-res recordings offered by HDTracks or Acoustic Sounds at the same price or less in $Cdn that the others charge in $US, a significant difference. Not to mention that they offer regular discounts to subscribers to their Newsletter.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Hi Firedog,

 

Matter in difference of prices upsampled and non-upsampled stuff?

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To tell the story, you'll need FFT graph instead of spectogram IMHO.

 

Yes!

And use a combination of static spectogram, static FFT and real-time FFT (set to high resolution) to dig even deeper.

Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000  / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II

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It's odd that the Rainbow Studio Oslo would record (or master) this album in 24/44 only, when most other recent ECM recordings made there are 24/96.

 

I looked up a few from the two last years on Discogs and then findhdmusic, and they were all released in 24/96

 

https://www.discogs.com/label/263914-Rainbow-Studio?sort=year&sort_order=&page=9

 

Maybe there was something wrong with the files that highresaudio.de got. Or the other albums could be upsampled as well.

Claude

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Here are the screenshots:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24528[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24529[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24530[/ATTACH]

 

First, just for giving me such a serious answer, I'll probably buy a couple of albums from them.

 

Second, what do you guys think?

 

That does not appear to be an upsampled file. While the spectral content above 22 kHz is mostly worthless, it is clearly not aliasing artefacts from a resampling filter. Whether you want to pay extra for a band of noise and a couple of a cymbal hits is up to you.

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That does not appear to be an upsampled file. While the spectral content above 22 kHz is mostly worthless, it is clearly not aliasing artefacts from a resampling filter. Whether you want to pay extra for a band of noise and a couple of a cymbal hits is up to you.

 

I'm actually not going to buy that album. I just came across it and decided to compare prices across the various sites, as I often do. That's when I noticed that highresaudio.de noted that it wasn't true 24/96, and though I'd see what the other labels said about it. So far only prostudiomasters answered me at all.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Looks similar to the earlier Tord Gustavsen ECM release, the Ground...

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f15-music-general/question-tord-gustavsen-ground-high-resolution-truth-19897/

 

I must ask: are you serious?

 

They do not look at all similar. The Ground looked very much like it was upsampled. What Was Said certainly does not look upsampled.

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I must ask: are you serious?

 

They do not look at all similar. The Ground looked very much like it was upsampled. What Was Said certainly does not look upsampled.

 

Yes, goldsdad, I was serious.

 

The noise in both graphs looks pretty similar to me in both recordings.

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