Sonore microRendu

[jumper]

You can still interface with the microRendu once you find its IP address and enter it in your browser. You just won't have internet access unless you connect it to the router (wired or wirelessly, depending on your setup).

 

But once you set it up - you don't have to set it up every time it seems. Just open Roon again and it automatically finds the microRendu after it has booted up. Slick!

 

Interesting, thank you... So you can actually bypass your switch and router by going direct. Albeit with no internet access. It will be interesting to see if cutting out those components has any effect on SQ.

[Vinnie Rossi]

Interesting, thank you... So you can actually bypass your switch and router by going direct. Albeit with no internet access. It will be interesting to see if cutting out those components has any effect on SQ.

 

That's right! At least for AXPONA, I just want to load up my Macbook Air's (MBA) internal SSD with plenty of music for the show. I cannot directly connect from MBA to microRendu because there is no RJ45 (ethernet) jack on the MBA. If there was, then I want to believe I would be able to directly connect to microRendu via an RJ45 "crossover" (null-modem) cable. I have another macbook pro that I might try this with later...

 

So I need to connect my MBA wirelessly to the Belkin wifi bridge (or Airport Express), and the RJ45 output of Belkin goes to microRendu. That has been tested and works great! But no internet (no problem since the music is loaded already). I just want a dedicated private network between MBA and Belkin and microRendu for this application. I just don't trust hotel's connection for an audio show.

 

[At home when I want to download music online, it just switch the network on my MBA to my Airport Extreme Router

which is connected to the cable modem for high speed internet. Then I switch to the private network again. It happens in a manner of a few seconds].

 

While not a small and light at an iPad remote, the new Macbook Air I have is still the one with the smallest screen and it is super light, and makes for a good remote and interface to browse my music via Roon. I don't think you can run Roon directly on an iPad (just a Roon remote app which talks to your computer), but I think my MBA is smaller/lighter than the new iPad Pro anyway ;-)

 

I will say that using the Mac + Roon has been very easy so far, and since the Belkin is in the room with me, the connection on this private network has been solid - no dropouts. Hopefully it will be that way at the show!

 

Vinnie

[baddog]

That's right! At least for AXPONA, I just want to load up my Macbook Air's (MBA) internal SSD with plenty of music for the show. I cannot directly connect from MBA to microRendu because there is no RJ45 (ethernet) jack on the MBA. If there was, then I want to believe I would be able to directly connect to microRendu via an RJ45 "crossover" (null-modem) cable. I have another macbook pro that I might try this with later...

 

So I need to connect my MBA wirelessly to the Belkin wifi bridge (or Airport Express), and the RJ45 output of Belkin goes to microRendu. That has been tested and works great! But no internet (no problem since the music is loaded already). I just want a dedicated private network between MBA and Belkin and microRendu for this application. I just don't trust hotel's connection for an audio show.

 

[At home when I want to download music online, it just switch the network on my MBA to my Airport Extreme Router

which is connected to the cable modem for high speed internet. Then I switch to the private network again. It happens in a manner of a few seconds].

 

While not a small and light at an iPad remote, the new Macbook Air I have is still the one with the smallest screen and it is super light, and makes for a good remote and interface to browse my music via Roon. I don't think you can run Roon directly on an iPad (just a Roon remote app which talks to your computer), but I think my MBA is smaller/lighter than the new iPad Pro anyway ;-)

 

I will say that using the Mac + Roon has been very easy so far, and since the Belkin is in the room with me, the connection on this private network has been solid - no dropouts. Hopefully it will be that way at the show!

 

Vinnie

 

My understanding from Jesus, as I queried about this some time back, is that connecting a computer such as a Macbook or Mac Mini directly to the microRendu via ethernet will not work.

[Vinnie Rossi]

My understanding from Jesus, as I queried about this some time back, is that connecting a computer such as a Macbook or Mac Mini directly to the microRendu via ethernet will not work.

 

The internet GUI would not work (for initial setting up), but for playing w/o internet it *should* work with a crossover

cable. I'll test and report back on this soon...

 

If it has already been proven elsewhere to not work, then sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

Vinnie

[baddog]

@Vinnie - I look forward to the results of your testing, if it works that would be wonderful ( in fact, I hope that it does ). I am only reporting what I heard from Jesus, but perhaps my question to him was "malformed". I do appreciate your updates.

 

-- Former Saugus, Natick, North End, Allston, Waban, Fenway resident....

[simonhiggs]

The internet GUI would not work (for initial setting up), but for playing w/o internet it *should* work with a crossover

cable. I'll test and report back on this soon...

 

If it has already been proven elsewhere to not work, then sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

Vinnie

 

The Mac's ethernet port should be auto sensing - no need for a x-over cable. If the uRendu needs a DHCP server to assign an IP, then (I think) internet sharing (on the mac) will do this.

 

edit - just tried with a Raspberry Pi, and LanScan to scan 'bridge100' - this works.

 

Simon.

[Vinnie Rossi]

Follow-up:

 

1) I connected an Airport Express (replaced the Belkin) and confirmed that I was able to get this chain to work:

 

Macbook Air >> wifi >> Airport Express >> RJ45 >> MicroRendu >> USB >> LIO dac

 

No connection to the internet - still seems to work fine.

 

So I think this proves that even if you don't have an internet connection, you can still use a MicroRendu with your computer - but only after you set it up your microRendu with the web interface via MySonicorbiter GUI (e.g. select App "Roon Player" or "Squeezelite," etc). But then it seems you don't have to have an internet connection to still get your computer to talk to the microRendu via a router.

 

I hope this makes sense and is just something to note - and not necessarily the best way for your applications and needs.

 

 

2)

The Mac's ethernet port should be auto sensing - no need for a x-over cable. If the uRendu needs a DHCP server to assign an IP, then (I think) internet sharing (on the mac) will do this.

 

edit - just tried with a Raspberry Pi, and LanScan to scan 'bridge100' - this works.

 

Simon.

 

Hi Simon,

 

Well, I tried with my other Macbook (with ethernet jack directly connected to microRendu)... no luck, yet. The reason is that the other macbook does not have Roon, and I could not go in via the web GUI to change to something else (e.g. Airplay, to do a simple test with iTunes).

 

I can only guess that if I did have Roon on this macbook, and set it up properly, and then did a direct connection of it to the microrendu, it would work. The macbook did say that it was connected to the microRendu, but I couldn't go into the GUI and change the App (even though I was connected to the internet via my wifi router, as the microRendu was not connected to that router). Make sense?

 

After the show I'll see if I can load Roon on this macbook (with ethernet jack) and try again.

 

----

 

Closing thoughts for tonight:

 

1) I hope my posts so far have not been confusing to future microRendu customers. I just want to get these findings out there in case they will be useful for some situations. The main one being:

 

Q: "I don't have my router in my listening room / I can't get RJ45 to my listening room - so now what?"

 

A: I was able to get an Apple Airport Express (and a Belkin wireless bridge) to work - clean / no dropout issues here. And I know JR mentioned before that another solution is ethernet over your AC power outlets. Never tried one of those devices and don't think I can bring myself to.... mentally, I have a hard time mixing my AC power and network signals, although I'm sure it works fine ;-)

 

2) Getting both the microRendu and Roon set up has been a breeze, and I am enjoying both very much! I have no plans to

go back to using a direct connection from computer to dac. This sounds too good! When the official production versions ship, you are all in for a real treat sonically! I look forward to reading user impressions, and wish the Sonore team a successful product launch!

 

3) If you're coming to AXPONA, please stop over and say hi. The microRendu will be with me in Room 336.

 

Vinnie

[juanitox]

great news , a new airport express with a clean 3.3V 1A Dc supply seems a great solution to feed the Microrendu and cheaper than tweaking a DC supply for the Computer ..

[kblundy]

That's right! At least for AXPONA, I just want to load up my Macbook Air's (MBA) internal SSD with plenty of music for the show. I cannot directly connect from MBA to microRendu because there is no RJ45 (ethernet) jack on the MBA. If there was, then I want to believe I would be able to directly connect to microRendu via an RJ45 "crossover" (null-modem) cable. I have another macbook pro that I might try this with later...

 

So I need to connect my MBA wirelessly to the Belkin wifi bridge (or Airport Express), and the RJ45 output of Belkin goes to microRendu. That has been tested and works great! But no internet (no problem since the music is loaded already). I just want a dedicated private network between MBA and Belkin and microRendu for this application. I just don't trust hotel's connection for an audio show.

 

[At home when I want to download music online, it just switch the network on my MBA to my Airport Extreme Router

which is connected to the cable modem for high speed internet. Then I switch to the private network again. It happens in a manner of a few seconds].

 

While not a small and light at an iPad remote, the new Macbook Air I have is still the one with the smallest screen and it is super light, and makes for a good remote and interface to browse my music via Roon. I don't think you can run Roon directly on an iPad (just a Roon remote app which talks to your computer), but I think my MBA is smaller/lighter than the new iPad Pro anyway ;-)

 

I will say that using the Mac + Roon has been very easy so far, and since the Belkin is in the room with me, the connection on this private network has been solid - no dropouts. Hopefully it will be that way at the show!

 

Vinnie

 

Vinnie, Apple make a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor for MBA or for the earlier models USB to Ethernet - that would give you a wired solution.

[pipis2010]

Could someone please help me out configuring the following? I am quite confused at least in my head:

 

I have a computer running Daphile (LMS) with an internal HDD with my music library. I have it setup to upsample everything to DSD256. Directly connected via usb is my iFi DAC. The computer is connected via Ethernet to my wireless router.

 

How would I go about it connecting the microRendu in this setup?

 

I know there is an easier solution via LMS/NAS, but I have become fond of Daphile and would like to continue using it, if possible. Many thanks in advance!

[firedog]

Could someone please help me out configuring the following? I am quite confused at least in my head:

 

I have a computer running Daphile (LMS) with an internal HDD with my music library. I have it setup to upsample everything to DSD256. Directly connected via usb is my iFi DAC. The computer is connected via Ethernet to my wireless router.

 

How would I go about it connecting the microRendu in this setup?

 

I know there is an easier solution via LMS/NAS, but I have become fond of Daphile and would like to continue using it, if possible. Many thanks in advance!

 

You connect the network end of the microRendu to your network router, and the USB end to the USB input on your DAC. You then choose one of the playback modes in the microRendu and playback your music from the Linux computer using the appropriate playback software for the microRendu mode you've chosen. The playback software in the computer needs to be told that it is outputting audio to the microrendu mode. Audio goes over the network to microrendu, and the microrendu then outputs it to the DAC over USB.

[pipis2010]

You connect the network end of the microRendu to your network router, and the USB end to the USB input on your DAC. You then choose one of the playback modes in the microRendu and playback your music from the Linux computer using the appropriate playback software for the microRendu mode you've chosen. The playback software in the computer needs to be told that it is outputting audio to the microrendu mode. Audio goes over the network to microrendu, and the microrendu then outputs it to the DAC over USB.

 

Thank you, but I know all this.

 

I guess my question is how would Daphile find my DAC via Squeezelite output, since the mR would be connected to the DAC?

In other words, where do I setup in the mR settings how to find the Daphile computer and how to setup Daphile to find the Squeezelite output of mR?

 

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I think some people use LMS already, so they may help...

[lossless72]

Hi, any lan cable used from NAS to mircoRendu you guys will recommend ?

[vortecjr]

Thank you, but I know all this.

 

I guess my question is how would Daphile find my DAC via Squeezelite output, since the mR would be connected to the DAC?

In other words, where do I setup in the mR settings how to find the Daphile computer and how to setup Daphile to find the Squeezelite output of mR?

 

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I think some people use LMS already, so they may help...

 

On our end you put the microRendu in SqueezeLite mode. In LMS you just select the unit from the player list. I'm not sure what you need to do on the Daphile end or if it will even stream to external devices. You have to ask Daphile to clarify.

[vortecjr]

Hi, any lan cable used from NAS to mircoRendu you guys will recommend ?

 

Blue Jeans Cable, CAT 6A Ethernet cable (Belden wire) with floating shield.

[firedog]

Thank you, but I know all this.

 

I guess my question is how would Daphile find my DAC via Squeezelite output, since the mR would be connected to the DAC?

In other words, where do I setup in the mR settings how to find the Daphile computer and how to setup Daphile to find the Squeezelite output of mR?

 

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I think some people use LMS already, so they may help...

you need LMS running on your network. In LMS, you pick the mR as the player. If you have the microR in SL mode, they should see each other over the network

[pipis2010]

you need LMS running on your network. In LMS, you pick the mR as the player. If you have the microR in SL mode, they should see each other over the network

 

By selecting mR as the player, all DSD upsampling continues to happen as normal (on the server side of LMS)? Sorry if this is a noob question!

[Al Jones]

Can we have confirmation from Jesus or John Swenson that microrendu only needs network connection for initial setup and occasional firmware updates?

 

Other than that, would an Ethernet crossover cable between music PC and microrendu be fine?

 

And if it works, would a direct connection compromise isolation audibly?

 

Shortening cables and keeping switches, routers, etc. out of the chain seems like a good idea.

[rickca]

So I think this proves that even if you don't have an internet connection, you can still use a MicroRendu with your computer - but only after you set it up your microRendu with the web interface via MySonicorbiter GUI (e.g. select App "Roon Player" or "Squeezelite," etc). But then it seems you don't have to have an internet connection to still get your computer to talk to the microRendu via a router.

 

 

Well, I tried with my other Macbook (with ethernet jack directly connected to microRendu)... no luck, yet. The reason is that the other macbook does not have Roon, and I could not go in via the web GUI to change to something else (e.g. Airplay, to do a simple test with iTunes).

 

I can only guess that if I did have Roon on this macbook, and set it up properly, and then did a direct connection of it to the microrendu, it would work. The macbook did say that it was connected to the microRendu, but I couldn't go into the GUI and change the App (even though I was connected to the internet via my wifi router, as the microRendu was not connected to that router). Make sense?

So maybe we just need a command line interface to talk to the micro rendu? Vinnie, I don't understand why you need Roon to get to the web GUI.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Follow-up:

 

1) I connected an Airport Express (replaced the Belkin) and confirmed that I was able to get this chain to work:

 

Macbook Air >> wifi >> Airport Express >> RJ45 >> MicroRendu >> USB >> LIO dac

 

No connection to the internet - still seems to work fine.

 

So I think this proves that even if you don't have an internet connection, you can still use a MicroRendu with your computer - but only after you set it up your microRendu with the web interface via MySonicorbiter GUI (e.g. select App "Roon Player" or "Squeezelite," etc). But then it seems you don't have to have an internet connection to still get your computer to talk to the microRendu via a router.

 

I hope this makes sense and is just something to note - and not necessarily the best way for your applications and needs.

 

 

2)

 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Well, I tried with my other Macbook (with ethernet jack directly connected to microRendu)... no luck, yet. The reason is that the other macbook does not have Roon, and I could not go in via the web GUI to change to something else (e.g. Airplay, to do a simple test with iTunes).

 

I can only guess that if I did have Roon on this macbook, and set it up properly, and then did a direct connection of it to the microrendu, it would work. The macbook did say that it was connected to the microRendu, but I couldn't go into the GUI and change the App (even though I was connected to the internet via my wifi router, as the microRendu was not connected to that router). Make sense?

 

After the show I'll see if I can load Roon on this macbook (with ethernet jack) and try again.

 

----

 

Closing thoughts for tonight:

 

1) I hope my posts so far have not been confusing to future microRendu customers. I just want to get these findings out there in case they will be useful for some situations. The main one being:

 

Q: "I don't have my router in my listening room / I can't get RJ45 to my listening room - so now what?"

 

A: I was able to get an Apple Airport Express (and a Belkin wireless bridge) to work - clean / no dropout issues here. And I know JR mentioned before that another solution is ethernet over your AC power outlets. Never tried one of those devices and don't think I can bring myself to.... mentally, I have a hard time mixing my AC power and network signals, although I'm sure it works fine ;-)

 

2) Getting both the microRendu and Roon set up has been a breeze, and I am enjoying both very much! I have no plans to

go back to using a direct connection from computer to dac. This sounds too good! When the official production versions ship, you are all in for a real treat sonically! I look forward to reading user impressions, and wish the Sonore team a successful product launch!

 

3) If you're coming to AXPONA, please stop over and say hi. The microRendu will be with me in Room 336.

 

Vinnie

Hi Vinnie - Connecting straight from your laptop running Roon to the microRendu with an Ethernet cable will only work if you manually set the IP address on both the laptop and the microRendu. The microRendu will also need it's default gateway set to the address of your laptop.

 

I've done this with the Sonicorbiter SE.

[agillis]

John, I still don't get the decision to use a micro SD for the OS rather than some nonvolatile memory. Wouldn't NVM be faster and more reliable?

 

We need a way to save the settings, load new software updates,etc and the SD cards we are using are very fast. Boot time is usually less then 20 seconds. If the SD card ever fails it will be very easy to replace unlike a solution that is soldered to the board.

 

The music is played back from RAM so music is never written to the SD card. Actually very little is ever written to the SD card.

[agillis]

This is Andrew I build all the software for the microRendu. I want to clarify running the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE with a direct Ethernet connection.

 

We always recommend connecting the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE directly to your router with an Ethernet cable. The reason we recommend this configuration is we know this will work. You go to sonicorbiter.com and it will show you all the microRendu or Sonicorbiter SE units on your network.

 

You can connect the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE directly to a computer via an Ethernet cable. You don't even need a crossover cable. A standard Ethernet cable will work.

 

BUT once you do this sonicorbiter.com will not work!! You need to do the following.

 

Set up a DHCP server to give the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE an IP address. Set up some kind of DNS server so the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE can resolve IP address.

 

You then need to make sure all your software such as LMS, jRiver, or Roon is set up to work without the internet.

 

If all of this is not configured correctly it simply won't work!

 

The only time I can think you would want to do this is for a show when you want to demo a unit with no internet or you live in an area with no internet.

 

For shows I usually use a small Linux box running DD-WRT. DD-WRT can be configured to create a "closed" network. I then attach my laptop, my microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE to the router, and connect my ipad to it via wifi.

 

So the short answer is you may be able to get the microRendu or the Sonicorbiter SE directly connected to a computer via an Ethernet cable working. But PLEASE don't ask for support if you can't get it to work. Even if you do get it working you may experience dropouts, 20-30 delays before music plays, etc. These problems are caused by your "closed" network not being configured correctly.

[The Computer Audiophile]

It's here!!!

 

[Vinnie Rossi]

So maybe we just need a command line interface to talk to the micro rendu? Vinnie, I don't understand why you need Roon to get to the web GUI.

 

Hi Rickca,

 

Sorry - you don't need Roon to get the web GUI. But you need the web GUI to select the "Roon Player" app.

 

 

Hi Agillis,

 

Thank you for your response to this - makes sense now.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Awesome - looking forward to reading your review! Will you be at AXPONA next week?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Vinnie

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris,

 

Awesome - looking forward to reading your review! Will you be at AXPONA next week?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Vinnie

See you in Chicago in a week Vinnie.