Help- Overwhelmed in Trying to Move to NAS Streaming

[Cary]

Hi,

 

I have been reading through posts here and other sites over the past few weeks and am completely overwhelmed. A little of where I am and where I want to be.

 

I am a longtime audiophile. My main system consists of a Pioneer Transport to Bel Canto Dac, to an Adcom GFP-750 Preamp and a Sunfire Amp and Magnapan 3.5s with a Velodyne helping out the bottom end. Over the past several years I have started streaming some from my computer, running Jriver through Airfoil to an Airport express, then toslink to an old Cal Audio DAC and then to my preamp. I use Jremote to control Jriver when listening to the system and have approximately 10,000 songs on the computer. I have all my house wired up with Ethernet running through a 16 port Cisco gigabit switch and prefer to use that when possible as it is the most reliable.

 

Sound quality is decent, but nothing to write home about. Also, I have been buying new music in 96khz/24bit and it has to be downsampled to 44.1 for the Airport. I like the Ipad interface for Jriver, but want to get away from having to boot up the computer, run airfoil and jriver to listen to the system. For me it is a pain, for my wife it is a battle that she only wins about 25% of the time.

 

Thinking I had the issue licked, I have ordered a Synology DS115 and WD Red 2Tb drive. To render this, I ordered a Bluesound Node 2. This seemed to be a good solution, but then I found the Bluesound requires that you add songs to a playlist in order to play them. I don't use playlists. I scroll through by artist, then select the album and/or song I want and hit play. I want to be able to do this with any system I use.

 

In looking further it appears the Auralic Mini may be the solution as its Lightning iPad app appears to function how I like, but I am unsure, as I have been completely overwhelmed when the discussion turns to what media server software to run on the NAS. The Google Chromecast Audio also looks like a potential solution, as it will pass 96/24, which is all I need right now. It looks like the Chromecast Audio could stream from the NAS to a decent Dac and work well, but I cannot figure out how the NAS would do it and how I could control it with an Ipad or Iphone.

 

If anyone could point me in how to best accomplish my goals, with trying to keep the budget below $600 and placing a very strong emphasis on ease of use, ease of setup and reliability.

 

Thank you

[Paul R]

Wow! In deep there mate!

 

First, is there any reason to not just put the Mac Mini in your system? If you are using it for other purposes (email, etc.) why not just buy another Mini or an Intel NUC or something like that to be a music server?

 

That is what you are trying to do, in essence, with the NAS. And that would work very well if you did not want high res (or even DSD) music. But with that, you need a more powerful computer that what comes with the NAS. Whether or not that computer is wrapped in an Auralic chassis or not is pretty much irrelevant.

 

Were it me, I would purchase either a small i5 based NUC, or an i5/i7 based Mac Mini (2.4gHz or above) and connect that into your system. If you don't want to store the music on that computer, then just store the music on your NAS and "mount" the NAS shared folder on the computer. They load the computer with JRMC and voila! Everything works, at full resolution, and you can even transcode PCM to DSD if you wish.

 

You could then use your existing Mac Mini to RIP CD's into your collection at any time, or download new music and store it on the NAS.

 

Alternately, you could go the Sono's route, which works just as well, though it is limited to 16/44.1, the same as Airplay. The Sono's controller is very easy and intuitive on your iPad (though, honestly, I like JRemote just a tiny bit better). As a side bonus, it adds dozens of streaming sources for your wife to choose from, including Apple Music. Sweet. My wife adores her Sono's speakers and Playbar.

 

-Paul

[Cary]

Paul, thank you. No mac mini, Jriver currently sites on a Dell Precision Workstation. I have contemplated trying the NUC with the NAS, but found that even more overwhelming than buying a box, plugging it in and configuring, as my understanding with the NUC is that I have install OS and then configure it, plus run a monitor and keyboard.

[danghony]

This is one of the reasons I went with the Sony Hap z1. Everything sits on the device and when you want to listen to music just turn it on and go. The computer stuff is fine for me but not very family friendly. I have an integrated dac in my secondary system using my surface pro 3 and foobar it locks up from time to time and I can't use the computer.

[wgscott]

If you don't want to store the music on that computer, then just store the music on your NAS and "mount" the NAS shared folder on the computer. They load the computer with JRMC and voila! Everything works, at full resolution, and you can even transcode PCM to DSD if you wish.

 

I just did that in a hotel room, with my laptop, many miles from my NAS at work (and using Audirvana). Worked flawlessly.

[Cary]

It's not a matter of not wanting the music stored on the computer, it is not wanting to have to have the computer up and running and opening two programs to get it to stream to the stereo which is in another room.

[Paul R]

Paul, thank you. No mac mini, Jriver currently sites on a Dell Precision Workstation. I have contemplated trying the NUC with the NAS, but found that even more overwhelming than buying a box, plugging it in and configuring, as my understanding with the NUC is that I have install OS and then configure it, plus run a monitor and keyboard.

 

I wan't clear. You only need a monitor, mouse, and keyboard the first time you setup the computer. After that, it just runs "headless" - and you can do that with a NUC or a Mac, either one. NUC's are sold on Ebay with Windows pre-installed, and of course, all Macs come with MacOS preinstalled.

 

On the (hopefully) very rare occasions you actually need to access the console of a music server machine, you "remote" into it, using VNC for a Mac or Microsoft Remote desktop for a Windows machine. Clients for both are available for a couple dollars on iPads, and clients for both are available at no cost on both Windows and Mac laptops and desktops.

 

The key to that configuration being stable is simple - do not use it as a computer. Read your email, browse the web, etc. on another computer.

[jrobbins50]

Here's what I would consider.

 

When you get your new Synology NAS, install three packages on it: Java, Minimserver and BubbleuPnP. All free, but I would encourage a $25 donation to Minimserver and BubbleuPnP for the hard work of maintaining their respective excellent programs. Minimserver will become your music player (it apparently requires Java to function, hence that installation). You would output the NAS via ethernet to a renderer. I have the REFStream from Bel Canto, which is fabulous but outside your price point. I see that Sonore has a new renderer called the Sonic Orbiter for a mere $300. The renderer converts the ethernet input signal into an USB or optical output for your Bel Canto DAC. The Bel Canto renderer, and according to the Sonore website, the Sonic Orbiter, support bitstreams through 24/192 and up into DSD territory. So, it's pretty future proof for the moment. To control everything, you'll have to spend a $100 to get an Android tablet, if you, like me, use iPhone for your regular use. BubbleuPnP runs on the tablet to control the selection of albums, songs, playlists and volume. As a bonus, BubbleuPnP supports the TIDAL streaming service and through the Bel Canto renderer it sounds fabulous -- and hopefully, the Sonore product would do well, too. You need to set up the renderer as an OpenHome renderer by checking a box within the BubbleuPnP setup on the NAS after installing the software there. You use mode 3a with the Sonore renderer. You will be able to see your entire file structure -- all your music folders and the songs within -- and just click on what you want to hear. No playlist development required. A further bonus is that the Sonic Orbiter apparently is ROON compatible, so if someday you subscribe to that control/player software, your renderer would already do it. I'm anticipating that Bel Canto's support for ROON in its renderer is not far off. In any case, this is a $450 solution for you (including donations to the software developers) that I bet will really kick it. It took me a bit to get it up and running, but it is extremely stable and is the best I've used. The best article on setting up a renderer that I have seen, and that is recommended by Bel Canto's John Stronczer, is the MSB Technology network renderer module manual. http://www.msbtech.com/support/RendererManual.pdf. Now you have your new year's weekend project. Have fun. Cheers. JCR

[speavler]

oh i tried jriver and airfoil combo at one point with music stored in a NAS. i could stand it for about a weekend. I preferred using itunes and the apple remote. then i went mac mini with audirvana plus in stand-alone mode, so no more itunes, and that's when things got good sound-wise. I'm now using the aries mini. i failed to get it set up reliably with my NAS, so i bought an SSD drive, installed it into the aries, and copied my library onto it. now i no longer need the mac mini or my nas up and running to play music, only to rip and then copy onto the aries. very reliable and easy setup. i like the integration with Tidal. drawbacks are - ipad is required (iphone app currently in beta), if you're not interested in Tidal then the pricing is less attractive.

[Old Listener]

It's not a matter of not wanting the music stored on the computer, it is not wanting to have to have the computer up and running and opening two programs to get it to stream to the stereo which is in another room.

 

Cary, I'd suggest that avoid buying more gear that you don't understand in detail. Instead, simply what you have. You know how to use JRiver s/w.

 

Paul gave you good advice. Buy a small cheap computer and place it near your stereo equipment. Connect it to your DAC via Toslink or a Some possibilities:

 

- Buy a Mac Mini and put JRiver s/w on it. You can buy one with a 1 TB hard drive. If that is enough storage for your music files you are set. Just copy copy you files to that hartd drive and import them in JRiver. If 1 TB isn't enough, you can addd a 2 TB external drive or use the NAS. (A NAS adds complexity, something you might want to avoid.) Connect the Mini to your DAC via toslink.

 

- Buy a NUC (with room for a 2.5" drive), install Windows, memory and a hard drive or SSD. If the NUC has an optical port, use that to connect to your DAC. If not, buy a USB to COAX or Toslink convertor.

 

- Buy a pre-configured NUC with memory, hard drive and a OS installed. JRivewr sells a Linux based unit they call the ID. You can get one with a 2 TB hard drive. The Linux version of JRiver may be limited with respect to the Windows version. It may not have facilities for ripping CDs. You could continue to use your Dell PC for ripping CDs.

 

- Buy a cheap laptop. It will already have memory. hard drive and OS installed. That may be more cost effective that a Mac Mini or a Windows NUC.

 

Don't get obsessed about having to turn a computer on and having to start start programs:

 

- a simple menu command in JRiver specifies that JRiver is started whenever the computer is turned on.

 

- A mini, NUC or laptop uses very little power - 10-15 watts. If you leave your stereo gear on, leave the computer on. If you turn the stereo gear on at the beginning of the listening session, turn the computer on then.

 

If you do these simple things, your system will be ready to use when you pick up the tablet. You'll use the same process to select and play music.

 

If you are happy with the streaming services that you currently use, this approach should work just fine.

[Cary]

Ok. I am going to do some more reading on the NUCs, as I do like Jriver.

[iamimdoc]

"Buy a pre-configured NUC with memory, hard drive and a OS installed."

 

Could you suggest a few devices/websites/retailers that have noiseless (or virtually nosieless) NUCS you know will run J. River, decode DSD, that utilize and have Windows already installed

 

Thanks and Happy New Years to all

[Paul R]

"Buy a pre-configured NUC with memory, hard drive and a OS installed."

 

Could you suggest a few devices/websites/retailers that have noiseless (or virtually nosieless) NUCS you know will run J. River, decode DSD, that utilize and have Windows already installed

 

Thanks and Happy New Years to all

 

To start, there are always the great C.A.P.s servers designed and detailed here by our host. You can buy some models prebuilt and loaded from Andrew over at Small Green Computer.

 

Computer Audiophile - C.A.P.S.

Computer Audiophile Pocket Server

 

Then try out Amazon (Not EBay! My Bad!) for some pretty good deals. Even better if you are handy with a screwdriver. This is not quite a turnkey experience, but it close...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXD54250WYKH1-Core-i5-4250U-Graphics/dp/B00HZDLNWO/ref=sr_1_17?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1451596675&sr=1-17&keywords=Intel+NUC

 

There there is the J. River ID - http://jriver.com/id

 

These might get you thinking. It is truthfully just as good sounding and far easier to me to by a little Mac though.

[Old Listener]

"Buy a pre-configured NUC with memory, hard drive and a OS installed."

 

Could you suggest a few devices/websites/retailers that have noiseless (or virtually nosieless) NUCS you know will run J. River, decode DSD, that utilize and have Windows already installed

 

 

Dsclaimer: I don't have a NUC but I have tracked them since 1st intro and expect to buy one as the basis for my MusicPC's next iteration.

 

Google "NUC fanless" and you will find alternatives. Logic supply is one.

 

Recent generations of cpus used in NUCs use less power which allows for different fan control. And it can be tweaked in the BIOS according to recent reports.

 

If you mean convert DSD <--> PCM, Go with an i3, i5 or i7 rather than a atom architecture CPU.

[Cary]

Looking hard at the Jriver Id. What would be a decent $300 usb dac? Prefer stuff on the warm side rather than analytical?

[Cary]

Another alternative I am considering is the Jriver Id and canning my Adcom Preamp and Bel Canto using a Cambridge Audio 851D Dac as my Dac and Preamp.

 

Thanks

[Paul R]

Looking hard at the Jriver Id. What would be a decent $300 usb dac? Prefer stuff on the warm side rather than analytical?

 

iFi iDSD Nano, with an iFi iUSB Power would make a very nice setup with an ID. (In fact, I have one setup like that here...)

 

-Paul

[Ajax]

Looking hard at the Jriver Id. What would be a decent $300 usb dac? Prefer stuff on the warm side rather than analytical?

 

See if you cam listen to one of these iFi Nano, Meridian Explorer 2, Audioquest Dragonfly 2

 

Good luck,

 

Ajax

[Old Listener]

Looking hard at the Jriver Id. What would be a decent $300 usb dac? Prefer stuff on the warm side rather than analytical?

 

I'll let others comment on the DAC choices. Any reason that you don't want to use one of the DACs that you already own?

 

Before you take the plunge on the JRiver Id, check the JRiver forum for information on the Ids capabilities. It uses the Linux version of the JRiver s/w and I belueve that version has some limitations. I'd check the "JRiver Id -- Hardware by JRiver" and the " JRiver Media Center 20 for Linux" sections. After you have browsed existing threads, start a new thread and ask any remaining questions that you have.

 

Good luck.

[Cary]

My current Dacs only do toslink or spdif, no USB. Also, my Bel Canto is limited to 96/24, but that is less of an issue.

 

What about using one of those USB to SPDIF converters?

[Old Listener]

My current Dacs only do toslink or spdif, no USB. Also, my Bel Canto is limited to 96/24, but that is less of an issue.

 

What about using one of those USB to SPDIF converters?

 

That might be a good choice if you like the Bel Canto.

[Cary]

Sorry to be jumping around, but there are so many options and as a result, no clear path.

 

What would happen if I just used the Synology NAS as my server and outputted from its USB to a USB dac and put the money into a better DAC?

[davide256]

Sorry to be jumping around, but there are so many options and as a result, no clear path.

 

What would happen if I just used the Synology NAS as my server and outputted from its USB to a USB dac and put the money into a better DAC?

 

 

Done it, it sucks.

 

The Aries mini will take you all of 10 minutes to setup but does require an iPad. Most of that time will be after you tell the Aries to run Lightning server on the Synology NAS, as it scans your media and builds a directory. You shouldn't need to turn on Diskstation or Minimserver if you choose to use Lightning DS server...however Minimserver provides DSD transcoding which the Aries does not, causing me to flip back and forth between the 2 if I want to play DSD files to my non DSD DAC. Just be sure you have fast network (Wifi N or hardwired Ethernet connection) to avoid slow scan times or high rez playback failures.

 

The Aries like my NAS works 7x24 without a glitch.

[kennyb123]

however Minimserver provides DSD transcoding which the Aries does not, causing me to flip back and forth between the 2 if I want to play DSD files to my non DSD DAC.

 

The Aries will convert DSD to PCM on the fly if DoP is disabled in LDS.

[Old Listener]

Sorry to be jumping around, but there are so many options and as a result, no clear path.

 

What would happen if I just used the Synology NAS as my server and outputted from its USB to a USB dac and put the money into a better DAC?

 

Davide256 and kenny123 seem to be referring to using the Symology as a DLNA/uPnP server with the Aries mini to render the audio. You'd need to buy the Aries Mini and play music through it. This isn't what you asked for.

 

The Synology NAS may have USB ports but that doesn't mean that you can connect a DAC to one of those ports and play audio. The purpose of the Synology NAS is to serve files to other computers. In recent years. NAS devices often can function as DLNA servers. Playing audio through the NAS's USB port may not be supported or if so, may not be very well supported. Be prepared to depend on your own troubleshooting skills.

 

Details really matter in computer audio (or anything else involving computers.) I'd suggest that you learn more about the details involved in other approaches before you buy gear that works differently than what you know how to use. Asking a question about gear on an audiophile forum is not a good way to learn.