Help- Overwhelmed in Trying to Move to NAS Streaming

[Cary]

Details really matter in computer audio (or anything else involving computers.) I'd suggest that you learn more about the details involved in other approaches before you buy gear that works differently than what you know how to use. Asking a question about gear on an audiophile forum is not a good way to learn.

 

It is amazing how complex it is and the plethora of options.

 

At this point, I am leaning towards the Jriver ID, as I like (and am used to) their interface and Jremote. I am also considering canning the NAS, and getting one with a built in 1tb drive. The sole reason for the NAS was to allow access without the computer and to allow other devices to access the music (i.e. my son's computer, Roku for bedroom), but it appears the Id will do this with the build in drive. I am leaning towards outputting into a USB-SPDIF adaptor and running that into my Bel Canto Dac (which it turns out is a Dac 1, not 1.1 so 96/24 bit). While DSD and 192/24 look interesting, the bottom line is that 98% of what I have is redbook, with a few 320k MP3 files and the rest in 96/24. Ultimately I may try a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit, as I do have Schiit Modi for my desk (Maverick Audio Integrated and Peachree 4.5 speakers) that I like.

 

Finally, I really need to focus on some work to the living/listening area. We replaced the carpet with hardwood a few months ago and it is way to live now. My wife has been looking for a large area rug, but time to push her to get one. We also have a bank of windows that are causing a reflection, which we need to put roman shades on, which will help.

[Old Listener]

It is amazing how complex it is and the plethora of options.

 

At this point, I am leaning towards the Jriver ID, as I like (and am used to) their interface and Jremote. I am also considering canning the NAS, and getting one with a built in 1tb drive. The sole reason for the NAS was to allow access without the computer and to allow other devices to access the music (i.e. my son's computer, Roku for bedroom), but it appears the Id will do this with the build in drive. I am leaning towards outputting into a USB-SPDIF adaptor and running that into my Bel Canto Dac (which it turns out is a Dac 1, not 1.1 so 96/24 bit). While DSD and 192/24 look interesting, the bottom line is that 98% of what I have is redbook, with a few 320k MP3 files and the rest in 96/24. Ultimately I may try a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit, as I do have Schiit Modi for my desk (Maverick Audio Integrated and Peachree 4.5 speakers) that I like.

 

Finally, I really need to focus on some work to the living/listening area. We replaced the carpet with hardwood a few months ago and it is way to live now. My wife has been looking for a large area rug, but time to push her to get one. We also have a bank of windows that are causing a reflection, which we need to put roman shades on, which will help.

 

I don't think that you mentioned your son's computer or the Roku in the bedroom. You need to be thorough about fully defining your requirements before you look for solutions. Some sample questions you might answer for your own use:

 

Son's computer: Do you want your son to be able to play music stored on your system on speakers attached to his computer? What kind of computer is it? What s/w does he use to play music now?

 

Roku: Do you want to play music stored on your system on speakers attached to the roku device? What model is it? What protocols can it use to get music from your computer? (Logitech Squeezebox, DLNA/uPnP, file level access to a shared device, MPD)

 

The advice I and others have given might still be appropriate but until you have fully described your requirements, we don't really know.

[DavidL]

Here's what I would consider.

 

When you get your new Synology NAS, install three packages on it: Java, Minimserver and BubbleuPnP. All free, but I would encourage a $25 donation to Minimserver and BubbleuPnP for the hard work of maintaining their respective excellent programs. Minimserver will become your music player (it apparently requires Java to function, hence that installation). You would output the NAS via ethernet to a renderer. I have the REFStream from Bel Canto, which is fabulous but outside your price point. I see that Sonore has a new renderer called the Sonic Orbiter for a mere $300. The renderer converts the ethernet input signal into an USB or optical output for your Bel Canto DAC. The Bel Canto renderer, and according to the Sonore website, the Sonic Orbiter, support bitstreams through 24/192 and up into DSD territory. So, it's pretty future proof for the moment. To control everything, you'll have to spend a $100 to get an Android tablet, if you, like me, use iPhone for your regular use. BubbleuPnP runs on the tablet to control the selection of albums, songs, playlists and volume. As a bonus, BubbleuPnP supports the TIDAL streaming service and through the Bel Canto renderer it sounds fabulous -- and hopefully, the Sonore product would do well, too. You need to set up the renderer as an OpenHome renderer by checking a box within the BubbleuPnP setup on the NAS after installing the software there. You use mode 3a with the Sonore renderer. You will be able to see your entire file structure -- all your music folders and the songs within -- and just click on what you want to hear. No playlist development required. A further bonus is that the Sonic Orbiter apparently is ROON compatible, so if someday you subscribe to that control/player software, your renderer would already do it. I'm anticipating that Bel Canto's support for ROON in its renderer is not far off. In any case, this is a $450 solution for you (including donations to the software developers) that I bet will really kick it. It took me a bit to get it up and running, but it is extremely stable and is the best I've used. The best article on setting up a renderer that I have seen, and that is recommended by Bel Canto's John Stronczer, is the MSB Technology network renderer module manual. http://www.msbtech.com/support/RendererManual.pdf. Now you have your new year's weekend project. Have fun. Cheers. JCR

 

Now you've introduced a requirement for an additional user it makes even more sense to follow this advice, rather than pursue the general-purpose-computer to USB route which most other posters are recommending.

 

I switched from a Mac Mini/Audirvana/USB set up to a NAS system similar to jrobbins50 but using a Sonore Rendu as renderer (much less expensive than the Bel Canto one). Very happy with the sound quality which matches or exceeds that from my PS Audio Perfect Wave transport.

[Cary]

Thanks for all the help. I didn't include my son's computer or the Roku in the beginning as I the one thing I had figured out was they could access the NAS.

 

I think I am going to go with Paul's suggestion. I am going to get a Jriver Id with a 1tb drive (have 250gb of music) and use that as the storage, renderer, and DLNA server for my Son's computer and the Roku. I am going to skip the NAS as the only purpose for it was to hold the music for it to be available when my computer was off, something I believe the Id will handle.

 

To me this gives the most turnkey solution with the least management. I am sure that this technology will move forward rapidly in the 4-5 years the Id will likely last.

[jacrider]

Sorry to be jumping around, but there are so many options and as a result, no clear path.

 

What would happen if I just used the Synology NAS as my server and outputted from its USB to a USB dac and put the money into a better DAC?

 

While this might seem an unusual suggestion as this forum seems to really like JRiver, have you looked at the Plex Media Server?

 

It is free, can run on your NAS or any old computer. It has great library management features.

 

For music distribution study RasPlex which is a streaming operating system for the Raspberry Pi. I have a digital out board for mine (HiFiBerry - High quality Raspberry Pi Audio | Audiophile 24/96, 24/192 sound cards (Audio DAC and SPDIF out) for the Raspberry Pi, audio out, audio cards, audio projects) and it feeds a NAD D1050 DAC. I am able to enjoy 192/24 FLAC files and they sound beautiful.

 

None of these are expensive. Plex is controlled via any Android or iOS device. The Raspberry Pi is run headless.

 

Nice for me is that my wife and kids can all easily play music without me needing to get involved. That makes it a success on its own.

[ringenesherre]

Or Plex Media Server on the Synology and stream via an Apple TV 4 + (HDMI) DAC - basically (except for the HDMI part) my setup

[agillis]

Don't attach your DAC to a NAS. It's best to keep your NAS away from your listening room so you don't have to hear the spinning drives. Also I'm not sure what player software you can run on a NAS.

 

jrobbins50's suggestion of using the Sonicorbiter SE is a good one and here is why...

 

1. It costs about the same as the Jriver ID but does a lot more.

2. It will work with jRiver. Just put it in DLNA mode

3. It has a SPDIF output. You don't need a SPDIF converter.

 

It supports Roon and USB DACs. Two possible future upgrades for you.

 

As for a NAS you may want to consider a microJukebox. it has CD ripping built in.

[Cary]

While this might seem an unusual suggestion as this forum seems to really like JRiver, have you looked at the Plex Media Server?

 

It is free, can run on your NAS or any old computer. It has great library management features.

 

For music distribution study RasPlex which is a streaming operating system for the Raspberry Pi. I have a digital out board for mine (HiFiBerry - High quality Raspberry Pi Audio | Audiophile 24/96, 24/192 sound cards (Audio DAC and SPDIF out) for the Raspberry Pi, audio out, audio cards, audio projects) and it feeds a NAD D1050 DAC. I am able to enjoy 192/24 FLAC files and they sound beautiful.

 

None of these are expensive. Plex is controlled via any Android or iOS device. The Raspberry Pi is run headless.

 

Nice for me is that my wife and kids can all easily play music without me needing to get involved. That makes it a success on its own.

 

Looked these over and while neat, they require a lot of work to setup. They also don't offer the onebox solution that the Id does with the integrated drive.

[Cary]

Don't attach your DAC to a NAS. It's best to keep your NAS away from your listening room so you don't have to hear the spinning drives. Also I'm not sure what player software you can run on a NAS.

 

jrobbins50's suggestion of using the Sonicorbiter SE is a good one and here is why...

 

1. It costs about the same as the Jriver ID but does a lot more.

2. It will work with jRiver. Just put it in DLNA mode

3. It has a SPDIF output. You don't need a SPDIF converter.

 

It supports Roon and USB DACs. Two possible future upgrades for you.

 

As for a NAS you may want to consider a microJukebox. it has CD ripping built in.

 

I looked at these, but they don't support Jriver on them.

[master]

Here's what I would consider.

 

When you get your new Synology NAS, install three packages on it: Java, Minimserver and BubbleuPnP. All free, but I would encourage a $25 donation to Minimserver and BubbleuPnP for the hard work of maintaining their respective excellent programs. Minimserver will become your music player (it apparently requires Java to function, hence that installation). You would output the NAS via ethernet to a renderer. I have the REFStream from Bel Canto, which is fabulous but outside your price point. I see that Sonore has a new renderer called the Sonic Orbiter for a mere $300. The renderer converts the ethernet input signal into an USB or optical output for your Bel Canto DAC. The Bel Canto renderer, and according to the Sonore website, the Sonic Orbiter, support bitstreams through 24/192 and up into DSD territory. So, it's pretty future proof for the moment. To control everything, you'll have to spend a $100 to get an Android tablet, if you, like me, use iPhone for your regular use. BubbleuPnP runs on the tablet to control the selection of albums, songs, playlists and volume. As a bonus, BubbleuPnP supports the TIDAL streaming service and through the Bel Canto renderer it sounds fabulous -- and hopefully, the Sonore product would do well, too. You need to set up the renderer as an OpenHome renderer by checking a box within the BubbleuPnP setup on the NAS after installing the software there. You use mode 3a with the Sonore renderer. You will be able to see your entire file structure -- all your music folders and the songs within -- and just click on what you want to hear. No playlist development required. A further bonus is that the Sonic Orbiter apparently is ROON compatible, so if someday you subscribe to that control/player software, your renderer would already do it. I'm anticipating that Bel Canto's support for ROON in its renderer is not far off. In any case, this is a $450 solution for you (including donations to the software developers) that I bet will really kick it. It took me a bit to get it up and running, but it is extremely stable and is the best I've used. The best article on setting up a renderer that I have seen, and that is recommended by Bel Canto's John Stronczer, is the MSB Technology network renderer module manual. http://www.msbtech.com/support/RendererManual.pdf. Now you have your new year's weekend project. Have fun. Cheers. JCR

 

+10 to this solution, some of the best advice ever.

 

I pretty much run a similar system with NAS, MinimServer, and BubbleUPNP. It's not just the components, the ease of use, or even the complexity of it all - it is also the best sound ever that I have experienced/continue to enjoy from my setup.

 

The only other components that I have additionally are a Chromecast Audio and a Raspberry Pi.

 

Do give it some thought, I'm sure you will experience sonic bliss and a finely tuned set up that works exactly the way you want it to and without hassles.

 

PS: I have used JRiver in the past, and on a $2000 PC build, and my new setup of less than $500 slaps it silly every which way.

[Albrecht]

Thanks for all the help. I didn't include my son's computer or the Roku in the beginning as I the one thing I had figured out was they could access the NAS.

 

I think I am going to go with Paul's suggestion. I am going to get a Jriver Id with a 1tb drive (have 250gb of music) and use that as the storage, renderer, and DLNA server for my Son's computer and the Roku. I am going to skip the NAS as the only purpose for it was to hold the music for it to be available when my computer was off, something I believe the Id will handle.

 

To me this gives the most turnkey solution with the least management. I am sure that this technology will move forward rapidly in the 4-5 years the Id will likely last.

 

Yes, - and you should do what you think is best. The core purpose of a NAS is the distribution of media to multiple sources. I live in a duplex with a shared NAS for the building. At any one moment, we can have as many as 15 devices accessing it. We have photos, music videos, AIFF & Flac files, and movies. We do "police" the drive, but the hardest part is really getting it set up in the first place. Our drive has been up and on all of the time for 4 years. Once the drive is up and running, it's incredibly convenient.

 

My personal opinion is that if you have a music playback device that can't be made to work well & easily with a NAS, - (and has that purpose & capability), then you need to look to another device that does. I run LMS, and other server/playback software, - and LMS works great, day in day out, the supported network playback devices are incredibly easy to use, and it's an amazing way to listen to music.

[Cary]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions and advice. Ultimately I decided to go with the Jriver Id with a a built in 1TB drive and skip the NAS altogether. I am running the Id to a Schiit Audio Bifrost Multibit. It took a little on the setup side for me, but works and sounds wonderful. I am able to burn CD's on my desktop and have the files automatically push to the Id by using Microsoft's SynToy and task scheduler. The Bifrost Multibit replaces my Bel Canto Dac 1 as well as my Cal Audio Gamma which was converting audio from the TV. Finally, I am able to access the ID from all the Roku's in the house and other computers in the house to play the music on the Id.

[Old Listener]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions and advice. Ultimately I decided to go with the Jriver Id with a a built in 1TB drive and skip the NAS altogether. I am running the Id to a Schiit Audio Bifrost Multibit. It took a little on the setup side for me, but works and sounds wonderful. I am able to burn CD's on my desktop and have the files automatically push to the Id by using Microsoft's SynToy and task scheduler. The Bifrost Multibit replaces my Bel Canto Dac 1 as well as my Cal Audio Gamma which was converting audio from the TV. Finally, I am able to access the ID from all the Roku's in the house and other computers in the house to play the music on the Id.

 

I'm glad you found a good solution for you. Enjoy!