ECdesigns

[jwr159]

I could use some advice. I would like to figure out a way to integrate the U192ETL/DA96ETF into my AV system. 

 

My system currently is Apple TV --> HDMI --> Surround Receiver --> TV --> audio return --> Speakers. I am really disappointed with the sound quality with music. 

 

I'd like to go to just a two channel system for TV while using the U192ETL/DA96ETF for audio. But I am not sure how to best separate the video to the TV and the audio into a U192ETL.

 

The only solution can come up with is to replace the Apple TV with a Mac Mini. which I believe allows me to separately control the video and audio outputs. So the plan would be:

1. an HDMI output to the TV for video and 

2. USB output to the U192ETL/DA96ETF for audio. 

 

Are there any other alternatives? 

 

Huubster, you mentioned your system now includes a streamer with a USB out. Is the Innuos Zen musicserver capable of separating the audio and video signals and allow the video to pass through to the TV? Is there any device out there capable of doing this? 

 

Don't mean to hijack this thread. Just trying to figure out a way to integrate the fractal dac into my system.  

 

 

 

    

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

For Windows users, I have written (with Livecode) a little program to assist in copying music to USB keys. Please use it at your own risk

 

I wrote for my own use, in a limited time, so it is not "fancy" and has limited features. 

 

Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8HRZX_PDCjEqcdl8dBZS_LcKiOnKvGU/view?usp=sharing

 

It requires dBpoweramp, and Kid3. dBpoweramp is not free, but there is a trial version that could work. 

 

You will need to add to your system's environment variables the path to the location of the dBpoweramp program "CoreConverter.exe" (usually located in Program Files > dBpoweramp) and "Kid3-cli". Here is an explanation on how to do that (for Windows10): https://www.architectryan.com/2018/03/17/add-to-the-path-on-windows-10/

 

Here is the link to dBpoweramp: https://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm

Here is the link to Kid3:https://kid3.kde.org/

 

In Kid3, you need to ensure in the settings that both flac and wav files are read.

 

The program is not meant to "mass copy" music to USB keys, as it only lets you update one folder at a time. It could be useful if you do not want to convert your files beforehand, and it does ensure that the tags are compliant. A 200x200 image can be easily added to each folder.

 

The program works in the following way:

 

- select the USB key by clicking on the field at the top (initial value should be "H:\"). Make sure you select the root of the USB key. The program checks that the key selected contains a file "id.txt"

 

- click on "ReadKey". The program will automatically renumber all folders from 01-99 (so watch out you don't use it on your hard drive it if also happens to have a random "id.txt" file in its root...)

 

- click on the "Add Folder" button to add a folder

 

- drag a folder from the Explorer into the box below the folder list (when you drag it, you'll see a "+" indicating you can drop the folder in the field). For the time being, only flac and wav files are added. The folder will be scanned recursively for all music files, but a maximul of 99 tracks can be copied.

 

- you can also drag a playlist (format M3U)

 

- if the folder contains an image saved under the name "folder.jpg" (could extend that to other standard names), it will automatically be displayed, otherwise you can drag any image on the square which says "thumbnail". 

 

- the dragged folder's name (or the playlist's name) is used for the USB key folder name. You can obviously change it after in the explorer if needed.

 

- click on "Update Key" to copy the files to the selected folder of the USB key

 

When you update the key:

- the file is copied to the USB key and automatically numbered (from 01 to 99) in the order of the list, and the track title is added to the filename (if there is not title tag, then the filename is used instead)

- the file is automatically converted to wav (if it is flac) without any tags

- the existing tags (artist, album title, track title) are then added - if there are no tags, then the values "title", "artist" are used instead (and the filename for the track title). If an "album artist" tag is defined in your music files, instead of the "artist" tag, then that one will be used. 

- the track number is set sequentially

- the image (200x200) is added to the tags of the first track of the folder

- the image is also copied (200x200) to the corresponding folder of the USB key - not useful for the UPL, but the program displays it when you navigate in the folders.

 

Each track takes a few seconds to copy (on a standard USB key). There is a counter that is incremented with each file successfully copied. If you get an error, it will be displayed in the box at the bottom left. You should then delete the corresponding folder on the USB key in the explorer, and try again !

 

Have fun...

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

As @Norton pointed out to me, the UPL can be used in addition to the U192 (USB). That's how I think I will be using it as well. Hence the program will make it simpler for me: I keep my music library "as is" in its current format(s) and folders, and just copy some albums, using a limited set of keys, when I want to sit down and enjoy them with maximum fidelity (a bit like having a vinyl collection). 

 

[M_audio]

2 hours ago, jwr159 said:

I could use some advice. I would like to figure out a way to integrate the U192ETL/DA96ETF into my AV system. 

 

My system currently is Apple TV --> HDMI --> Surround Receiver --> TV --> audio return --> Speakers. I am really disappointed with the sound quality with music. 

 

I'd like to go to just a two channel system for TV while using the U192ETL/DA96ETF for audio. But I am not sure how to best separate the video to the TV and the audio into a U192ETL.

 

The only solution can come up with is to replace the Apple TV with a Mac Mini. which I believe allows me to separately control the video and audio outputs. So the plan would be:

1. an HDMI output to the TV for video and 

2. USB output to the U192ETL/DA96ETF for audio. 

 

Are there any other alternatives?     

 

Try looking for HDMI Audio De-embedder or HDMI Audio extractor. Most have however an Optical out, for that case you would need an Optical to USB-Converter..sound would still be better than it is now, but for sure not as good as it could, because of multiple conversions of the signal.
What about your Surround Receiver, does it have Optical out for Audio and does it work? For that you would still need Optical to USB, but usually HiFi converters do the opposite - USB to Toslink.

It would be better with MacMini & USB audio out into U192ETL (and even better with a Recklocker between it.)
USB cables make also a big difference in sound (depending on the rest of the chain)

[jwr159]

 

I woll look for a audio de-embedder or extractor with USB output. 

 

My original plan was to get rid of the surround receiver all together, replace with an audio amp, and then use an optical to USB converter from an output of the TV and into the U192ETL. 

 

I do not believe optical to USB converters exist. I have look and found nothing.

 

Hence, the idea of replacing the Apple TV device with the Mac Mini.

 

Assuming there is no other solution, I am fine using a reclocker for the USB output of the Mini. 

[M_audio]

7 minutes ago, jwr159 said:

 

I woll look for a audio de-embedder or extractor with USB output. 

 

My original plan was to get rid of the surround receiver all together, replace with an audio amp, and then use an optical to USB converter from an output of the TV and into the U192ETL. 

 

I do not believe optical to USB converters exist. I have look and found nothing.

 

Hence, the idea of replacing the Apple TV device with the Mac Mini.

 

Assuming there is no other solution, I am fine using a reclocker for the USB output of the Mini. 

Yes a good amp instead of receiver is the best solution. However the route via TV into U192 is not so good, because of many signal conversions which will only degrade the signal.

You dont need a reclocker for the USB out from Mac Mini, but it makes the signal better. Direct output from Mini into U192 works too.
But a decent Reclocker with its own LPSU should help, taking into account that Mac Mini does not have the best PSU and it is also integrated into it. A Reclocker with its own LPSU has the advantage of using the clean power from the LPSU and passing it into U192, instead of passing directly the dirty congested power from Mac Mini. 

[Huubster]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

For Windows users, I have written (with Livecode) a little program to assist in copying music to USB keys. Please use it at your own risk

 

I wrote for my own use, in a limited time, so it is not "fancy" and has limited features. 

 

 

That's a really neat feature @hopkins! I will try it soon, only tried the UPL with a few albums on a 4gb stick I had laying around, tomorrow I expect my 256gb stick to arrive for some proper testing 😁

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I found a little issue in my program: filenames containing '&' generate an error, which I reported to dbpoweramp... 

In the meantime I added a little feature to delete the key in the application's database so you don't need to swap keys - each time you update the key and insert it back in the UPL the ECD app scans it again automatically. Obviously you need to run my program on the same computer as you run the ECD app for that to work... 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I prepared another version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jTni1ApO7Q2SOINI80USpZwxE_QMORh8/view?usp=sharing

 

- bug with filenames fixed

- drives are displayed in a pull-down list, and the drive label (corresponding to what you see in the ECD app) is displayed

- image is automatically resized to 300x300 instead of 200x200 (it still loads quickly in the ECD app)

- you can select the ECD app's database with the button at the bottom. If you do, then the key is reset in the database when you update it in my program. You then only need to insert it in the UPL and it will be updated automatically in the ECD app. The location of the ECD app's database should correspond to the path shown below (replace my name with your Windows logon name)

 

Enjoy.

 

 

If anyone plays with it and can think of other features, let me know. I could include other file types (only wav and flac so far), or other image names to look for when a folder is uploaded.

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Forgot to include some files (dll for access to the database) - this includes a zipped folder, the app needs to be run from the folder: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vp2jPSLRFw2saRmwl6TMoj81u3KReIo8/view?usp=sharing

[Huubster]

It took a bit of fiddling, a few trail and errors and some additional help from @hopkinshimself and I got the upl tool up and running today. A very conveniant tool I must say!

 

Once the album art is properly prepared, either embedded in tags or part of the album directory, it's drag and drop and the rest is taken care of during copying.

 

Thanks for sharing such a helpful tool with the ECD community! 👍

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I made a few cosmetic changes, and added instruction on this page: https://github.com/paulstephane/UPL_Accessory

 

A link to a zip file is given in the "Download" section of the instructions. The zip file should be extracted to your computer and will contain a folder with an application called "Launcher.exe". The app needs to be run from within the folder, and all the other files in the folder are needed and should not be renamed. 

 

@Huubster i did not yet add an option to sort folders by name, will get to that this weekend.

 

I will also add other file types this weekend. 

 

Hopefully this will make things a little easier, at least at the beginning. 

 

The programs kid3 and dbpoweramp no longer have to be added to Window's environment variables (too complicated) but you still have to identify their location on the settings page. 

 

Hope there are no bugs, but if any I will upload a new version in GitHub and let you know in this thread. 

 

I send a link to ECD to let them review the content of the page, given the fact that I mention their (awesome) product and link to their page. 

 

Any suggestions are more than welcome

 

The source code is included on github. Its not very pretty, and will improve it and add comments so that anyone with some development skills can use it to make their own version. 

 

A version for Mac or Linux could easily be made. It would require a few changes to the code (which I may do anyway) and a beta-tester! 

 

I'll also try to design a nice icon for the app... 

 

 

[jwr159]

It it acceptable to ask what type of customer support others have received from EC Designs? 

 

Their web site says they are shipping only within the EU due to shortages due to COVID 19. I have emailed them twice explaining that I am located outside the EU and asked for some clarity on when they may be able to ship outside the EU. So far, the emails have been ignored. 

 

I need a new DAC. Have narrowed my choices down to EC Designs or a DAC from Audial. I would be willing to wait a month or two if I had some clarity from EC Designs. But the lack of a response has me leaning toward just getting the Audial . 

 

 

[Huubster]

9 minutes ago, jwr159 said:

It it acceptable to ask what type of customer support others have received from EC Designs? 

 

Their web site says they are shipping only within the EU due to shortages due to COVID 19. I have emailed them twice explaining that I am located outside the EU and asked for some clarity on when they may be able to ship outside the EU. So far, the emails have been ignored. 

 

I need a new DAC. Have narrowed my choices down to EC Designs or a DAC from Audial. I would be willing to wait a month or two if I had some clarity from EC Designs. But the lack of a response has me leaning toward just getting the Audial . 

 

 

 

I wouldn't worry about customer service, but having a bit of patience is handy and please understand that ECDesigns is being ran by a brilliant man currently foccused on producing more units to sell..

[M_audio]

I have received a super support from them. I broke the input of the XTOS (1st version of U192ETL), and shipped it to them to repair it - i received first class support from their side.
 

[jwr159]

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

 

I guess I am just getting a bit frustrated. I am ready to move forward, but can't. Audial makes among the very best implementations of a TDA1541 DAC . Their Model S readily beats the typical modern gear from Chord, Schiit, iFi, etc. I think you need to spend crazy money to beat it. So the questions is waiting for the fractal dac worth the wait?  Is this thing that much better? I guess patience is a virtue.... 

 

 

[M_audio]

EC Designs started with TDA1541 chip, but it had its inherent limitations which cannot be changed (internal architecture, input limitations). So even their 1st design Mosaic T DAC is better than TDA1541, because that's where they overcome TDA1541 limitations.

In their current version, Fractal DAC, they go back to this 1st design in the overall architecture - outboard USB to Optical converter, and DAC with external PSU, exactly like the Mosaic DAC was, but with further enhancements in the internal DAC and USB converter (U192) architecture.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

57 minutes ago, jwr159 said:

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

 

I guess I am just getting a bit frustrated. I am ready to move forward, but can't. Audial makes among the very best implementations of a TDA1541 DAC . Their Model S readily beats the typical modern gear from Chord, Schiit, iFi, etc. I think you need to spend crazy money to beat it. So the questions is waiting for the fractal dac worth the wait?  Is this thing that much better? I guess patience is a virtue.... 

 

 

 

Any comments from people who have heard the Fractal DAC (using either of ECD's sources) are probably not going to make your choice any easier... 

 

I understand that they are completing a new set of units, as pointed out by Huubster, and yes, sometimes responses to email take a while. They do have a phone number on their website and you could try that, at least to know if non EU sales are an option. 

[jwr159]

Thanks all for the responses.

 

Yes, I am familiar with TDA1541 thread on the DYI Audio and understand that EC Designs has moved on. That's what I find intriguing about the fractal DAC and why I am willing to take a leap and buy w/o first hearing.   

 

While obviously comments from others who have the fractal dac is no substitute for listening to one for yourself, I do think the impressions of others is valuable. Anyone willing to share their personal impressions, especially compared to other DAC they have used, would be welcome from my perspective. 

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

What I meant to say is that all comments so far seem very positive. I had planned a comparison with other DACs next week but it is postponed. I assume only a few units have been sold so far, as I have not seen feedback on any other site. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that people tend to be skeptical about gear that is not expensive. Sometimes the skepticism even turns into defensiveness. 

 

It is also "novel" and very different from the usual DACs. No oversized power supply, no DSD, no upsampling, a wierd input, no fancy filtering, etc... Nothing that people can relate to and know. 

 

Unless they can get it reviewed by an "authority", it may take some time before they get the recognition they deserve.

[jwr159]

Hopkins, I am sure anyone following this thread would be very interested in your impressions after comparing to other dacs. if not too much trouble, please post. 

 

The fractal dac is disruptive for sure. And EC Designs is the type of entity i like to support. Small, innovative, cutting edge, huge value. What's not to like! 

[Huubster]

A friend of mine has the Fractal DAC and he will be comparing it to a DCS Bartok soon.. I will not be present myself but I will report back when he shared their findings

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I uploaded another version  (see https://github.com/paulstephane/UPL_Accessory to download).

- added the ability to sort the folders alphabetically

- added the following file formats in addition to flac and wav - aiff, m4a, ape, ogg

- fixed a little bug (database file could not be removed or saved from one session to another)

 

Thinking of adding another screen to allow dragging multiple folders and copying them all at once. I would then have to change the way images are selected, by adding multiple cover art names (folder.jpg, cover.jpg, etc...) or picking up the image already stored in the source track's tags. 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Here's a picture of the ECD set in action. 

 

 

[jwr159]

Nice set up Hopkins. I see that you are all in with EC Designs. I am not at all familiar with their amps, which apparently they no longer make since they are not posted on their web site. Can you explain a bit about them and what speakers are you using? 

 

I am thinking ahead a bit with the assumption I will eventually be able to purchase the U192ETL  USB transport and DA96ETF DAC. With this combination, is there any value in using a USB regen/reclocker device between the source (a computer) and the transport? Or does the U192ETL eliminate noise/jitter issues with the incoming USB signal during the conversion to Toslink? Any opinions?