Jump to content
IGNORED

ECdesigns


Recommended Posts

I have been reading this thread and the ECD website with great interest and am considering to get myself a U192ETL usb transport or UPL96ETL usb-stick transport.

 

My initial preference was the UPL96ETL as this appears to be a purer solution and I am already used an attached to playing network-less (and usb-less) from a standalone SD transport for which I fill an SD card ad hoc with wav (and DSD256) files. However, I became reluctant when I noticed the requirements for tagging the files with the UPL software; this seems to me too much much of a hassle.

 

As an alternative I am thinking of:

 

wtfplay standalone PC => usb cable => U192ETL => ElectroTos cable => Denafrips Terminator

 

Would this work?

 

I already tried the TosLink input on the Terminator and it is the best sound by far I have have heard with TosLink.

 

P.S. A layman's summary of the ECD principles, philosophy and possible setups would be welcome. The makers' brilliant minds may benefit the products but do not always benefit the readability of the product descriptions.

 

audio system

 

Link to comment

A few comments:

 

- the upcoming batch of U192ETL should offer essentially the same quality as the UPL96.According to ECD, there will always remain a small difference between the two, but the U192ETL will offer very satisfying quality. With the current units, the gap is more significant. I only use the UPL96ETL and am really eager to getting an upgraded U192ETL to finally have all my music available without the hassle of USB keys...

 

- with the U192ETL, I do not think there will be any benefit in using wtfplay, but of course you can test that for yourself when you get it. I tried wyfplay with the current U192ETL and heard no benefit. 

 

- my personal feeling, at this point, is that the combination of the U192ETL and the Fractal DAC is going to outperform the Terminator with the same source. I ageee the Terminator does have a good toslink input. I heard the Terminator on many occasions, and a few times with the previous UPL. A lot of the increase in sound quality in the current units comes from the new Fractal DAC, and the use of the new protocol between the Fractal DAC and the source. By using either source (U192ETL or UPL96ETL) with the Terminator,  I do not see how it could reach the same level as what I am hearing today. Once again, this is my personal "feeling", and  there is no way of knowing for sure until a comparison is done.

 

I would recommend getting both the U192 and the Fractal DAC and then deciding which DAC you wish to keep :)

Link to comment

Thanks!

 

27 minutes ago, hopkins said:

- with the U192ETL, I do not think there will be any benefit in using wtfplay, but of course you can test that for yourself when you get it. I tried wyfplay with the current U192ETL and heard no benefit.

 

Do you mean no benefit compared to using the wtfplay PC directly into another DAC?

Or compared to using U192ETL with another source?

 

Quote

- my personal feeling, at this point, is that the combination of the U192ETL and the Fractal DAC is going to outperform the Terminator with the same source. I ageee the Terminator does have a good toslink input. I heard the Terminator on many occasions, and a few times with the previous UPL. A lot of the increase in sound quality in the current units comes from the new Fractal DAC, and the use of the new protocol between the Fractal DAC and the source. By using either source (U192ETL or UPL96ETL) with the Terminator, I do not see how it could reach the same level. Of course there is no way of knowing for sure until a comparison is done.

 

Apart from SQ there is also the Terminator's versatility compared to the ECD's limitations, offering more possibilities to compare different setups, with more file formats.

 

Currently an SDTrans384 SD transport is on its way to me. Looking only at SQ, I would then be interested in this comparison:

 

SDTrans384 => I2S => HDMI/LVDS cable => Terminator

UPL96ETL => ElectroTos => Fractal DAC

 

However, we are talking about two esoteric products (SDTrans and ECD) so it is not very likely that someone will compare these setups any time soon -- unless it is me 🙂

 

 

audio system

 

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, hopkins said:

- the upcoming batch of U192ETL should offer essentially the same quality as the UPL96.According to ECD, there will always remain a small difference between the two, but the U192ETL will offer very satisfying quality. With the current units, the gap is more significant. I only use the UPL96ETL and am really eager to getting an upgraded U192ETL to finally have all my music available without the hassle of USB keys...

Once I heard about this interesting new development, narrowing the gap between the 2 USB transports I ordered the updated U192ETL and the Fractal DAC at the weekend. I'll be able to give my opinion against my current setup sometime soon. According to John the improvement to the U192 further reduces the interference from the source and everything connected to it. Looking forward to testing this out.

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Once I heard about this interesting new development, narrowing the gap between the 2 USB transports I ordered the updated U192ETL and the Fractal DAC at the weekend. I'll be able to give my opinion against my current setup sometime soon. According to John the improvement to the U192 further reduces the interference from the source and everything connected to it. Looking forward to testing this out.

 

Do you have an idea as to when the new units will be available ? Knowing it is "in the works" it becomes increasingly frustrating to have to deal with USB keys... Patience is not my virtue :)

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

SDTrans384 => I2S => HDMI/LVDS cable => Terminator

I have been running a similar modified SD card player which is highly rated on here:

https://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541&start=160#p87293

SDCard Player > I2S  > HDMI/LVDS > PS Audio Junior DAC. I found far superior to any other inputs I have tried, with big reduction in the 'digital' sound so I am looking forward (and have high hopes) to see whether this development from ECD can improve on this...

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Do you have an idea as to when the new units will be available ? Knowing it is "in the works" it becomes increasingly frustrating to have to deal with USB keys... Patience is not my virtue :)

John said soon ie within a week or so - on the site it says 3-4 weeks so fingers crossed ... and yes likewise I was not keen on getting into another card/sticks kind of set up so this development is very interesting.. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I have been running a similar modified SD card player which is highly rated on here:

https://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541&start=160#p87293

SDCard Player > I2S  > HDMI/LVDS > PS Audio Junior DAC. I found far superior to any other inputs I have tried, with big reduction in the 'digital' sound so I am looking forward (and have high hopes) to see whether this development from ECD can improve on this...

 

Yes, read that also. Though much cheaper (and needing some DIY skills), it seems to be in the same league as the SDTrans384.

 

(In the meantime I am using a HXMelody HX500, which is already very good with SD card and I2S. See below.)

 

 

audio system

 

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Clear, thanks. And that is due to proper isolation from the source I guess.

 

That is my understanding.

 

Tweaking the source to reduce the processor's activity, read files from memory, use battery or linear power supplies, etc, is simply not sufficient. 

 

The fact that one can today tweak all this and impact the sound quality does not mean you are actually getting the best sound quality! 

 

Even if you did miraculously have a really clean signal from a PC, the USB chip that converts this incoming signal will itself generate interferences as well. Dealing with them is not so simple. ECD's solution for this is novel, and effective (based on measurememts and listening). 

 

Adressing interferences within the USB adapter seems to be the only solution, or having a dedicated player that will essentially do the same. 

 

Vis a vis dedicated players like the SDTrans or the UPL, you also have processing activity and potentially connections (such as i2s) that carry large bandwidth and noise.

 

Once all this is achieved it can all be destroyed if the DAC is not able to transcribe the digital signal to analogue precisely 🙁

 

Once the analogue signal comes out of the DAC, there are also lots of opportunities to mess things up, but that is going to be the next chapter of ECD's lasting contributions to audio 😉

 

As always, "experts" will certainly debate this, and i will just trust my hearing. 

Link to comment

I also spend a lot of time tweaking. Sure, it has been fun at times, but retrospectively completely futile. 

 

I basically stopped a couple years ago when I heard the previous UPL (with the previous MOS16 DAC, and even better with the Terminator). I got a sense that they were on to something that one could simply not compete with, regardless of how much you invested in the source. 

 

When they came out with the first improvement, the ElectroTOS connection (but still using the standard spdif protocol), that they kindly retrofitted on my old UPL, things sounded better, and that was also encourageing and served as a confirmation. 

 

Then they mentionned their work on their new DAC, and practically a year went by. The wait was well worth it, and I think everyone who has heard it understands. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

 

Yes, read that also. Though much cheaper (and needing some DIY skills), it seems to be in the same league as the SDTrans384.

 

(In the meantime I am using a HXMelody HX500, which is already very good with SD card and I2S. See below.)

 

Thanks, yes I saw your thread. It was fun to mod/DIY and power with Ian Canadas Ultracap supply. If the EC products come close or even better with streaming this is the promised land... :)

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, hopkins said:

the upcoming batch of U192ETL should offer essentially the same quality as the UPL96.According to ECD, there will always remain a small difference between the two, but the U192ETL will offer very satisfying quality. With the current units, the gap is more significant.

On reflection, I   do think it is unfortunate that the upcoming  batch get the mods with no word on upgrading existing units.  I can understand this, say a year or more into manufacture, but a bit much to learn, in effect, that something bought when first released just a few weeks ago is already  superseded.

 

Having said that, really  enjoying my UPL/DAC96 (especially via HP for some reason, which is unusual for me ) and have dug out my Resonessence Mirus to compare with SD card input.

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Are you a clairvoyant?

Struggling to exercise discipline 😐

 

I'm not saying my glass sphere can predict the future, but I definitlely saw something suspicious in there.. 

 

Besides that, I'm just a fanboy, can't help it 😎

Link to comment
On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 7:07 PM, hopkins said:

Imagine getting a very clean sound, with zero interference, from a simple PC (with foobar, Roon, Qobuz, whatever...). No need for audiophile USB cables, linear power supplies, reclockers, ethernet regenerators, or fancy servers. 

This is going to be fun 🤣

 

So FLAC from Qobuz is no problem for playback with the ECdesigns devices?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
26 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

So FLAC from Qobuz is no problem for playback with the ECdesigns devices?

Thanks

 

Matt

FLAC is fine with the DAC96ETF and U192ETL pairing (I have used with Qobuz without any problems) .  It’s just the UPL96ETL usb stick transport that requires WAV.  Note DAC processes up to  24/96, while U192 goes to 24/192.  I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to play Qobuz 24/192 with the combo (I didn’t try).  Their previous MOS16 DAC processing was limited to 16 bit but was quite happy with a 24/96 stream (just dithered to 16 bit) for example.

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Norton said:

FLAC is fine with the DAC96ETF and U192ETL pairing (I have used with Qobuz without any problems) .  It’s just the UPL96ETL usb stick transport that requires WAV.  Note DAC processes up to  24/96, while U192 goes to 24/192.  I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to play Qobuz 24/192 with the combo (I didn’t try).  Their previous MOS16 DAC processing was limited to 16 bit but was quite happy with a 24/96 stream (just dithered to 16 bit) for example.

 

Would be niice to know if it makes sense to go for Qobuz Studio up to 24/192 or if Qobuz HiFi is the better option.in this case.

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...