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3 minutes ago, hopkins said:

The top of the units have a plastic film protection sheet you can take off, to reveal the glossy cover. No effect on the sound 😁

I know... :) thanks

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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Just having short listening session this evening between other tasks.

 

Have to say this is a mesmerising sound quality! Not the only aspect of the sound but the acid test for me is with troublesome cymbals and sibilance on some favourite tracks - the ECD combo passed with flying colours which shows the removal of a layer that makes me relax deeply. To be honest I just want to listen but have to tear myself away...

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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Wow, more happy ECD owners coming in, nice to see!

 

@bodiebill: I did experiment with different USB cables, going from my streamer to the U192, and it sure makes a difference. So completely immune to noise or whatever magic is in those 'audiophile' cables, is the U192 not. I play with the first version though, not the updated version.

 

Sometimes I tell myself it's about time I get on the phone and call John and request for the update. Though I have a very rare thing happening to me currently. I'm so happy with the sound as is, that I'm actually reluctant to sent my U192 back in for an update. In normal life my body screams for updates, the sooner the better, but not now, with this awesome trio comfortably sitting on my audiorack. Actually I'm patiently waiting on @hopkinsfindings, and probably will give John a call right after reading the first results.... :D 

 

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@bodiebill interesting findings. Am eager to do some experimenting soon (will be able to compare with the UPL, and compare wtfplay vs foobar, but not USB cables), and am curious to see if you will reach the same conclusions regarding "immunity" with the FractalDac (though my understanding is that this would not be linked to the DAC at all, but who knows...).

 

Reading over John Brown's explanations - for example recently on his DIYAudio thread, he states that the U192 offers "band limited (20MHz) output for minimum noise injection into the DAC". So "minimum" not being zero, I assume you could still hear differences - but then why would the U192 with a non-audiophile PC (simple USB cable) be "undistinguishable" from the UPL96 (quoting him), which itself has very low noise  ? Comparing previous versions of the UPL always offered better performance (to my and others' ears) than USB sources - whether wtfplay, or other sophisticated sources... so that is not consistent - or is my reasoning flawed ? Many questions still !

 

Small question - when using Foobar2000 did you bypass Windows audio, using Asio4All, for example, to make sure playback is "bit perfect"  ?

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27 minutes ago, hopkins said:

... and am curious to see if you will reach the same conclusions regarding "immunity" with the FractalDac (though my understanding is that this would not be linked to the DAC at all, but who knows...).

 

As I understand this alleged immunity should be the result of the U192 + Fractal DAC combination, where the former is a prerequisite for the latter to make any sound at all. So not sure what you mean to say in brackets.

 

27 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Reading over John Brown's explanations - for example recently on his DIYAudio thread, he states that the U192 offers "band limited (20MHz) output for minimum noise injection into the DAC". So "minimum" not being zero, I assume you could still hear differences - but then why would the U192 with a non-audiophile PC (simple USB cable) be "undistinguishable" from the UPL96 (quoting him), which itself has very low noise  ? Comparing previous versions of the UPL always offered better performance (to my and others' ears) than USB sources - whether wtfplay, or other sophisticated sources... so that is not consistent - or is my reasoning flawed ? Many questions still !

 

Valid questions. For the reasons you mention I expect full immunity to be too good to be true, but we will find out...

 

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Small question - when using Foobar2000 did you bypass Windows audio, using Asio4All, for example, to make sure playback is "bit perfect"  ?

 

No, I did not go through that trouble.

What Windows player SW could you recommend? I might try XXHighEnd. But to be honest, I am relieved I got rid of Windows (an OS that needs a lot of 'taming') for audio playback.

(I still use Windows on a control PC with JRiver as database, or with UPPlay/Minimserver when I use the HX500 as UPnP renderer.) 

 

audio system

 

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The brackets were simply to state that maybe something had escaped me. Anyway, lets see what happens when the FractalDac comes into the equation.

 

For Windows, Foobar is ok as a start, and you can follow the instructions here to use it with Asio4All: https://headphoneaddict.com/howto-run-bit-perfect-foobar-tutorial/

 

The images in the link are gone, so I included below a screen copy showing where you set the output using the Asio4All component in Foobar. You need to double-click on the highlited (blue) line, to get the ASIO4ALL popup that lets you select your sound card (in this example I don't have the U192 connected to my PC)

Foobar1.JPG.366deaad5092e8ada8b8db9231af6f9e.JPG

 

All you need is to download and install Asio4All, and the corresponding foobar component. One small thing to keep in mind, is that the sound card (ECD U192) will be used in "exclusive" mode, and if you want to alternate between different apps you cannot have them open at the same time. This would not be a problem using your windows PC to communicate with the HX500 however. 

 

Using Asio4All is not going to change the "noise" level of the PC, but may avoid bit-manipulations in windows. Make sure you set the volume to 100% in foobar as an added precaution...

 

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50 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

A PC/Windows foobar2000 => usb => U192ETL => ElectroTos => Terminator
B PC/Linux wtfplay => usb => Terminator

 

Interesting that with B>>A the better software of the source outperforms the better hardware of the USB Interface.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop/u192etl

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Based on XMOS XU208.

 

Apparently XMOS-based devices could make use of driver from a different manufacturer as mentioned below

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-d30-dsd-dac-xmos-cs4398.821559/page-32#post-15232589

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/topping-d30-no-official-xmos-windows-10-drivers.842912/

 

Current driver version for XMOS is 4.86.0.42594 and they're including ASIO support already

 

http://www.soncoz.com/uploads/1/2/7/2/127246176/soncoz_usb_audio_dfu_tool.zip

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/USB Drivers/v4.86.0/Bryston_USB_DriverSetup_v4.86.0.exe

 

If that weren't working, please try 4.82.0 instead

 

http://jlsounds.com/uploads/JLsounds_USBAudio_v4.82.0.exe

http://www.tphifi.net/drivers/topping_usbaudio_setup_v4.82.0.zip

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/A18/Gustard_UsbAudio_v4.82.0_setup.exe

https://fichiers.touslesdrivers.com/64808/Audeze_UsbAudio_v4.82.0_2020-01-17_setup.exe

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/USB Drivers/v4.82.0/Bryston_USB_DriverSetup_v4.82.0.exe

https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/manuals/MUTEC_USB2.0_Audio_Driver_V4.82.0_03-2020.zip

https://spl.audio/wp-content/uploads/_downloads/SPLelectronics_TUSBAudio_v4.82.0_2020-01-17_setup.exe

https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360006976798/USB2.0_driver_v4.82.0.zip

 

ASIO support

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio

https://www.foobar2000.org/getcomponent/d1b6ccaf4206736daadadd72667d49c3/658d864c9811f00c8c93d781f8f30c61/foo_out_asio.fb2k-component

 

WASAPI output support

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi

https://www.foobar2000.org/getcomponent/0db74e427a9da7d9477e3a6ef8864d99/c0d1ceba18d6aa494838a34485b4bc0a/WASAPI.fb2k-component

 

WASAPI shared output

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapis

https://www.foobar2000.org/getcomponent/6e1b053a3b9e3b06eef8d25bb81d9db4/7b1a39511d0d385bb30dec8f0e09ebb2/foo_out_wasapis.fb2k-component

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9 hours ago, hopkins said:

and am curious to see if you will reach the same conclusions regarding "immunity" with the FractalDac (though my understanding is that this would not be linked to the DAC at all, but who knows...).


The immediate difference  being that only with the DAC96 is the ElectroTos interface being deployed, rather than Spdif via optical.  Whether and how this will affect “source-independence” I don’t have sufficient  technical understanding to know, and of course in back to back listening  comparisons there could be a whole range of reasons why the DAC96 will sound different,  unconnected to the interface.  Certainly my UPL into my Oppo205 didn’t sound anywhere near as good as with the DAC96.

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9 hours ago, hopkins said:

One small thing to keep in mind, is that the sound card (ECD U192) will be used in "exclusive" mode, and if you want to alternate between different apps you cannot have them open at the same time. This would not be a problem using your windows PC to communicate with the HX500 however.

 

This would be no problem as my UPnP setup is

 

(1) Windows control PC with UPPlay and Minimserver (not in audio room, powerful i9, formerly heavy lifting HQPlayer embedded server; this is also used for format conversions, JRiver database etc.)

=>

(2) audio PC (in audio room, small footprint & low power, Linux or Windows ad lib)

=>

(3) DAC

 

Better sounding is the one box setup with just (2) => (3) where the PC has local files (preferably copied to Optane nvme disk, SATA disabled).

 

And even better is the minimal setup with SD transport and I2S.

 

These setups show increasing SQ and decreasing convenience.

 

This may seem a bit off topic, but I hope the ECdesigns gear can overhaul this layout by conjoining SQ and convenience.

 

audio system

 

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1 hour ago, hopkins said:

I completely agree with Norton concerning the value of the Fractal DAC and don't think it is really worthwhile speculating too much about the U192 performance in another context. 

 

Still I find it encouraging that the U192ETL apparently already makes a positive difference on its own, i.e. without the Fractal DAC.

 

audio system

 

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18 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Still I find it encouraging that the U192ETL apparently already makes a positive difference on its own, i.e. without the Fractal DAC.

 

Yes, I did not mean to discourage you or imply that they were not useful. You did note less effect of the source - of course its disappointing you don't immediately notice "full immunity" (which as ECD pointed out will probably never be fully achieved), but lets see what happens with the Fractal DAC thrown in there. I'm also curious to have your feedback on the comparison to the Terminator. 

 

This is all very interesting and exciting to follow 😊

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4 hours ago, hopkins said:

...and some pretty novel amplification solutions. As he said "more about this later". 

Interesting news, thanks for posting as I was starting to wonder about amplification. Although everything sounds perfect as it now stands and I stayed up too late last night lost in the music ... 

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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I am intently following this thread and remain interested in the U192ETL/Fractal combination, but am somewhat dismayed that there is still no shipping outside of the EU. 

 

I do have a dumb question. With either a Toslink or Coax source, what options or solutions are available to use the U192ETL/Fractal DAC? Is there a way to do a conversion to USB? Or any chance EC Designs comes out with an Coax/SPDIF/Toslink version of the  U192ETL? 

 

Thanks 

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