Ars prepares to put “audiophile” Ethernet cables to the test in Las Vegas

[esldude]

I feel like I just got slapped by Karl Popper. (You are of course right, although he might have said "corroborate".)

 

Should that be re-phrased? Getting popped by Karl Popper.

[mmerrill99]

I agree, the money being charged for such cable is a rip off.

How about a drop of 5dB in noise rather than frequency changes though?

 

See my experiences lead me to the opposite conclusion. I once believed I could trust my own ears, it became apparent I couldn't. And not because I have lousy hearing ability (it does seem at least roughly average), but because the way human hearing works you can't trust anyone's hearing in many circumstances.

 

I agree about the hand waving on ethernet differences. To me to be worth the high end money, it should be something as obvious as a 3 db drop at the frequency extremes. Something that is not necessarily stupendously obvious, yet enough it would be quite simply heard in a few tens of seconds of listening with comparison to the other version of the signal. That sort of difference isn't as obvious as some believe, but is something that can reliably be discerned.

[audio6]

I recently discovered one good reason to avoid super cheap ethernet cables. While attempting to remove the cable from the back of my computer, the stupid cheap plastic locking clip broke off. Then, while attempting to remove, sans clip, I accidentally cut the cable in half. I now have a permanently attached piece of cable sticking out the back. I'll drill it out some day.

[Audio_ELF]

I recently discovered one good reason to avoid super cheap ethernet cables. While attempting to remove the cable from the back of my computer, the stupid cheap plastic locking clip broke off. Then, while attempting to remove, sans clip, I accidentally cut the cable in half. I now have a permanently attached piece of cable sticking out the back. I'll drill it out some day.

If just the outer part of the plastic clip has snapped off, you should be able to use a small flat bladed screw driver to release the catch.

 

If the whole locking clip has broken off then the plug should just pull out without it.

[audio6]

If just the outer part of the plastic clip has snapped off, you should be able to use a small flat bladed screw driver to release the catch.

 

If the whole locking clip has broken off then the plug should just pull out without it.

 

Hi Eloise,

 

As luck would have it, it didn't break deep enough to where it would just pull out, and a little too deep for the quick half-arsed attempt with the readily available flat-head. I'll give it a try with a smaller, flatter tool some day, but need to unplug to access properly and just didn't want to deal with it yet. Maybe tomorrow.

 

Thanks.

[jabbr]

Gallery: we tear apart a $340 audiophile Ethernet cable and look inside | Ars Technica

[YashN]

Looks like a well thought out cable to me, twisted pair shielded, then re-double-shielded, with silver plated copper as core conductor. The braided shield looks to have a high optical coverage.

 

No idea what effect it has if any, never had the opportunity of testing one.

[Nikhil]

Anyone know the "results" of the Ars Technica challenge?

 

 

Gallery: we tear apart a $340 audiophile Ethernet cable and look inside | Ars Technica

 

Looks like a really well made cable to me. Still expensive but the extensive shielding is impressive up close. From the light blue color of the wire it looks like they are using Supra cable (which is not a knock by the way). Supra has been one of the most respected "no nonsense" cable brands in Europe for years.

[wgscott]

They are apparently still writing them up, and collating an accompanying video.

[jabbr]

Looks like a well thought out cable to me, twisted pair shielded, then re-double-shielded, with silver plated copper as core conductor. The braided shield looks to have a high optical coverage.

 

No idea what effect it has if any, never had the opportunity of testing one.

 

Well, considering you can get this: 9 ports Gigabit Ethernet Optical Fiber Switch with 8 SFP ports and 1*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45-in Network Switches from Computer & Office on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group , and a $5 fiberoptic cable, that well thought out Ethernet cable is certainly well thought out to efficiently separate you from your $$

[firedog]

They are apparently still writing them up, and collating an accompanying video.

It will be interesting to me to see who "took the test" and if they publish any individual results. What will they say if one or two individuals had a statistically significant ability to differentiate between the 2 cables, but the average doesn't show that?

[esldude]

It will be interesting to me to see who "took the test" and if they publish any individual results. What will they say if one or two individuals had a statistically significant ability to differentiate between the 2 cables, but the average doesn't show that?

 

Well, you might expect results of a few to meet the 95% mark just at random. For instance if 15/20 (meets 95% levels) , and you give this 20 trial test to 100 people. You would expect at random, 2 or 3 to get 15 or more and 2 or 3 to get 5 or fewer. To determine if those few were actually able to hear what most can't you would want to give them the test again. This something that probably won't happen in this case (and usually doesn't in most cases).

[firedog]

Well, you might expect results of a few to meet the 95% mark just at random. For instance if 15/20 (meets 95% levels) , and you give this 20 trial test to 100 people. You would expect at random, 2 or 3 to get 15 or more and 2 or 3 to get 5 or fewer. To determine if those few were actually able to hear what most can't you would want to give them the test again. This something that probably won't happen in this case (and usually doesn't in most cases).

 

Okay, that's fine. But it also limits the conclusions you can draw from the test: you can draw a conclusion that most people can't hear the difference but not that the cables don't make any difference.

[Tony Lauck]

Okay, that's fine. But it also limits the conclusions you can draw from the test: you can draw a conclusion that most people can't hear the difference but not that the cables don't make any difference.

 

A slight correction. You can draw a conclusion that most of the people didn't hear a difference, but not that the cables don't make any difference.

 

Unless you have a population in mind and reason to believe that the population in the study was representative you are limited to conclusions about the people who actually participated. From the conclusion that they didn't hear a difference, it is not reasonable to conclude that they couldn't hear a difference under different circumstances. The result of these experiments are relative to time, place and person and generalization is done at one's peril.

[YashN]

that well thought out Ethernet cable is certainly well thought out to efficiently separate you from your $$

 

Not mine: I'm not buying it

[plissken]

Looks like a well thought out cable to me, twisted pair shielded, then re-double-shielded, with silver plated copper as core conductor. The braided shield looks to have a high optical coverage.

 

No idea what effect it has if any, never had the opportunity of testing one.

 

Honestly looks like about any other double shielded industrial rated cable.

 

I wonder if Belden or other use masking tape in their assemblies?

[plissken]

It will be interesting to me to see who "took the test" and if they publish any individual results. What will they say if one or two individuals had a statistically significant ability to differentiate between the 2 cables, but the average doesn't show that?

 

What would they say if they had 10 people tossing dice with every change. 1-3 is A and 2-6 is B?

[plissken]

Okay, that's fine. But it also limits the conclusions you can draw from the test: you can draw a conclusion that most people can't hear the difference but not that the cables don't make any difference.

 

That is why this needs to be done in a well controlled blind at an Audio show. It needs to be done with people that are confident in their hearing or with a not so huge ego to protect.

[esldude]

A slight correction. You can draw a conclusion that most of the people didn't hear a difference, but not that the cables don't make any difference.

 

Unless you have a population in mind and reason to believe that the population in the study was representative you are limited to conclusions about the people who actually participated. From the conclusion that they didn't hear a difference, it is not reasonable to conclude that they couldn't hear a difference under different circumstances. The result of these experiments are relative to time, place and person and generalization is done at one's peril.

 

Yes, this is the more correct interpretation.

[esldude]

That is why this needs to be done in a well controlled blind at an Audio show. It needs to be done with people that are confident in their hearing or with a not so huge ego to protect.

 

I don't know, I have seen plenty who for one reason or another are very confident in their hearing. They didn't hear especially well in many of those cases.

 

Now if you mean trained listeners, yes that would be an improvement. People given a basic hearing test to confirm well functioning hearing, and then trained to hear differences. The ego thing gets in the way. Experience doing some blind testing some of which you hear and some of which you don't either makes big egos smaller or causes them not to agree to take part any longer.

 

So this wasn't a research quality blind test. It will be interesting either way. The hyperbole spilled out endlessly about some of this stuff isn't well controlled whatsoever either.

[plissken]

I don't know, I have seen plenty who for one reason or another are very confident in their hearing. They didn't hear especially well in many of those cases.

 

Now if you mean trained listeners, yes that would be an improvement. People given a basic hearing test to confirm well functioning hearing, and then trained to hear differences. The ego thing gets in the way. Experience doing some blind testing some of which you hear and some of which you don't either makes big egos smaller or causes them not to agree to take part any longer.

 

So this wasn't a research quality blind test. It will be interesting either way. The hyperbole spilled out endlessly about some of this stuff isn't well controlled whatsoever either.

 

Depends on what is being tested for. If you look at the James Randi Foundation site there appear to be an incredible amount of scientists involved that have research back rounds.

 

1. I don't know if this was research quality or not. No one knows at this point.

 

2. Depends on what is being tested. I know that a statement was made about the differences being readily apparent and easy to hear. If you are testing that theory then your testing rigidity just went way down. If you are testing if there is a perceptible difference then that is another matter.

 

You can test for those two very different things.

 

I still say taking this to an audio show would be the best bet.

[plissken]

I don't know, I have seen plenty who for one reason or another are very confident in their hearing. They didn't hear especially well in many of those cases.

 

I hope you realize how bad that actually sounds. Goes back to my Mystery Men quote: The invisible man only turns invisible when no one is looking.

 

It's the very definition of Irony.

[Paul R]

I hope you realize how bad that actually sounds. Goes back to my Mystery Men quote: The invisible man only turns invisible when no one is looking.

 

It's the very definition of Irony.

 

Why would you think that? Put an audiophile with great hearing into an Audio Show environment, listening on strange equipment, and make a test out it. The stress alone, however (in)valid the test may seem, will wreak havoc with your results.

 

-Paul

[plissken]

Why would you think that? Put an audiophile with great hearing into an Audio Show environment, listening on strange equipment, and make a test out it. The stress alone, however (in)valid the test may seem, will wreak havoc with your results.

 

-Paul

 

I've seen an Audio Journalist specifically state they heard a difference in Ethernet cables at an AQ dog and pony show with a room full of other enthusiasts that heard a definitive difference.

 

Same with Nordost PC's. All at a show.

 

So wonder no longer.

 

Sorry but the excuses don't hold water. There is a very large and contradictory bunch in the Audiophile community.

[joelha]

plissken,

 

Just curious . . . have you ever listened to an Audioquest (or similar "audiophile") ethernet cable?

 

Joel