BUDGET SYSTEM, who thinks they put together the best system on LOW Budget

[Mike Mcsweeney]

My attempt at a budget system a while back:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/adventures-craigslist-11905/

 

If not for craigslist, I would have never discovered paradigm studio 60s...unfortunately I bought them for resale, and made arrangements to sell them to someone else before I even listened to them. I plugged them in about midnight as he was coming over the next day around 10ish, and I had to make sure they at least worked.....I was up until 3 or 4 am listening to every music I had and fell in love. I had no idea there was such a step up from other speakers I have listened to in that price range. I will never find a deal like that again....I was hoping the buyer wouldn't show up or would try to talk me down, but he was excited to get them...darn!! I keep my eyes open for paradigm studios ever since with no such luck. I haven't heard any other speakers in that price range (I paid $400 and sold for $600, and would gladly buy another pair for $700 if I have a chance again). If anyone else knows of a speaker they think sounds as good as paradigm studio 60s in that price range, let me know....I have been in the hunt ever since.

 

On another topic, going to CES tomorrow in Las Vegas and plan on listening to some SVS Prime towers at $500 each. supposedly pretty good reviews. My budget is $1200 for some fronts, but I don't think I could spend $1200 and find anything that sounds close to those Paradigm studio 60s.

[adamaley]

With a $3000 budget, I will go the following route for exceptional music quality -

 

1. Kef LS-50s used (~1100.00)

2. Schiit Ragnarok (~1600.00)

2. Schiit Bifrost/iFi Micro DAC used (~300.00)

 

Play the music off your existing home PC or laptop, and you'll be golden.

[loop7]

I think I have a great sounding system that was a steal.

 

Emotiva UMC-200 (refurb): $469

Bryston 8B ST (craigslist): $700

Vandersteen 2ce Signature w/stands (Audiogon): $926

Mac Mini (refurb): $499

SSD: $63

1 TB Firewire drive: $110

Amarra HiFi: $25 (holiday special)

Peachtree DAC•iTx: $299

[davidl10]

My desktop system sounds great for the price, especially with headphones.

 

I have a Macbook Pro>JRiver($50)>Audioquest carbon USB (used $95)>Burson Audio Conductor SL modified with DAC Out ($699)>Oyaide 750RR interconnects ($95) >Adam F5 active speakers (used $260), and Hifiman HE 500 headphones B-stock ($439).

 

Headphones are the bang for buck champions!

A Bottlehead Crack AMP ($250) + Dragonfly DAC ($150) + Focal Spirit One ($180) = $580 new. No speaker system is even close.

[nomad33fw]

Think I did ok.

Denon AVR-X1100W on sale $299

2012 Mac Mini i7 16GB Ram $700

Bowers-Wilkins 685 S2 $700

Definitive Tech SuperCube 2000 $499

SpeakerCraft Aim-8 $300 pr

 

It sounds great, for 2 channel and surround.

 

Thinking about a USB DAC

[nelis]

I’m after a $3,000 setup that both sounds and works nice for hifi use in the living room (20x20ft) and will do well for (relatively less bass-heavy) electronic music production, also in the living room. I found this topic and it’s been great for inspiration!

 

I am currently leaning towards going slightly over the $3k budget and getting a pair of acclaimed active speakers. Specifically, either Focal Twin6 Be’s (~$1800 each), or Solo6’s + Sub6. I’ve only heard the Twins and thought they were pretty amazing; I am only considering the Solo’s + Sub to get deeper bass and potentially evade the phasing issues that the Twins may have. So question 1: does this setup fulfil my needs in terms of sound quality and would I be better off with Twins or the Solo + Sub setup?

 

Second question: given I am really stretching my budget here, what is the best value for money network streaming + DAC setup? I am currently eying two options: i) a Raspberry Pi, with a NAS attached and UPnP functionality + the ODAC with RCA outs; or ii) a dedicated network streamer incl DAC such as the Marantz NA6005 or Cambridge Audio Stream Magic V2, at a slightly higher price. The important question here is: what source+DAC combination makes the most of the Focal monitors at a reasonable price, or are both these options seriously unfit for feeding the Focals?

 

Apologies if this is regarded as hi-jacking a topic, it is my first post here after a few weeks of reading along. Please let me know if there is another thread I should post my queries. Thanks!

[bluesman]

What is the best value for money network streaming + DAC setup........what source+DAC combination makes the most of the Focal monitors at a reasonable price, or are both these options seriously unfit for feeding the Focals?

You're on the right rack for sure! I chose a BeagleBone Black over a Pi for what I consider a better processor and superior feature set - and I like the way it looks in a simple metal case. But you can get just as great sound out of a Pi, most "cube" computers, etc. I used MPD (free) for months after building mine, but JRiver offered a master key at a very low price and I'd been using their Linux beta on an old PC I built - so I went for JRMC, and it's as great on the 'bone as it is on larger machines. I stream to my phone and tablet from the 'bone over the internet, both with freeware (Gizmo / WebGizmo) and JRemote (which I bought months ago to find out if it's as great as everyone says - it is, but I don't think I'd spend the $ again because Gizmo's also very good). And there are fine MPD remote control apps for iStuff and Android.

 

You should be very happy with a Pi and your speakers. SQ from the 'bone is excellent through my Focal 726 towers and my Rogers LS3/5as (driven by either my Emotiva Stealth DAC/Prima Luna tube amp or my Wadia 151 digital amp). As for a DAC, you'll get many opinions here that range from "you don't need to spend more than $75" to "no DAC under $1000XX is any good". There are many fine DACs under $500 - the new Emotiva Little Ego ($169) is a fine choice, and the AQ Dragonfly is even less money (although not quite as open and rich in detail, in my opinion after very limited audition). I prefer a separate DAC because technology changes so fast that you (or I) may someday wake up and decide you need DSD+ or whatever's there at the time, but the onboard DAC in your receiver / streamer / whatever won't process it.

 

Yes, I know the Wadia falls into the onboard limitation category - but it was on sale for $500 and I wanted to experience an all digital (except for output stage) device.

[nelis]

...

 

Thanks a lot bluesman, very useful info! Agreed on the benefits of external DAC that can be upgraded at a later stage.

 

I am looking at the Emotiva Big and Little Ego and notice they have a 3.5mm jack out. I'd need to go from 3.5mm jack to 2 XLR outs to connect the Focals. Wouldn't I lose a fair bit of quality in the process? The ODAC has l+r RCA outs; I am less worries about RCA to XLR losses. Ideally of course I'd go for a high quality and affordable DAC with balanced XLR out - is that available at all?

 

Also, I'd welcome any further thoughts on the Focal active monitor range especially for hifi use, if any has some.

[bluesman]

I am looking at the Emotiva Big and Little Ego and notice they have a 3.5mm jack out. I'd need to go from 3.5mm jack to 2 XLR outs to connect the Focals. Wouldn't I lose a fair bit of quality in the process?

I don't think so - but I'm sure others will disagree. The DAC Magic Plus (about $300, as I recall) has balanced outputs and is a fine DAC. I can't really compare it to the Emotiva, as I have very little personal experience with either. But I heard nothing to dissuade me.

 

I suspect that the Emotiva DAC is basically the same one that's in my Stealth, though - and I have extensive experience with that. DM+ is a bit warmer but a bit less detailed than my own Emotiva. And I had an XDA1 before that, so I'm quite familiar with the overall Emotiva DAC "sound". I could live happily with any of them, though.

[senorx]

Peachtree Decco 65 Int. 600.00

Monitor Audio BX-2 400.00

Lenovo Q190 190.00

JRMC 50.00

 

These are the actual prices I paid for these items. The integrated and speakers were on sale, and all were new. Obviously this would include much $ to upgrade whatever part of the chain one deems most important and stay within budget. Although I am listening to this very setup as I type, and could be happy with it indefinitely if necessary (assuming a room no larger than about 150 sq ft), I have about another $4K invested in headphone gear, because at these price levels, I get way more pleasure from headphone listening. Even mid-range speakers are a rabbit hole beyond my means, at least on a cost-benefit basis, but another $1700 can buy pretty decent speakers, (to me at least) if speaker listening is one's priority. Or a sub, which would address the big failing of this system as is. Many, many choices.

[findog3103]

Audioengine A5+ Bamboo B-Stock - $375

Schiit Bifrost uber - $449

Airport Express - $99

[plissken]

I see a lot of posts with too much dedicated to electronics IMO:

 

Speakers: Audio Artistry Line Arrays. I've heard them and they are beautiful. It's a kit so some labor is involved. $2000 shipped.

 

Computer: Quantum Byte Windows 8 machine for $169 (add a 3 year warranty for another $16).

 

DAC: Emotiva Little Ego for $170

 

Amp: Crown XLS DriveCore 1500 Gen2 $399

 

WD 2TB USB drive for $68

 

JMRC with Remote for $50

 

Leaves $140 for Keyboard/Mouse and Monitor if needed.

[nelis]

I don't think so - but I'm sure others will disagree. The DAC Magic Plus (about $300, as I recall) has balanced outputs and is a fine DAC. I can't really compare it to the Emotiva, as I have very little personal experience with either. But I heard nothing to dissuade me.

 

I suspect that the Emotiva DAC is basically the same one that's in my Stealth, though - and I have extensive experience with that. DM+ is a bit warmer but a bit less detailed than my own Emotiva. And I had an XDA1 before that, so I'm quite familiar with the overall Emotiva DAC "sound". I could live happily with any of them, though.

 

Quick update: I've taken the plunge on the latest Raspberry Pi (which has a helpfully active development community compared to the other boards) and the latest compatible Odroid C1+ Hifi Shield with I2S interface (ODROID | Hardkernel), with both 2x RCA and 3.5mm jack outputs. I'm planning to run Volumio on it.

 

At less than $100, I don't think I can go wrong. I might consider another DAC with ostensibly better performance down the line - I will need some serious evidence to believe claims to improved quality though. For now this reduction in projected capital outlay makes me feel just ever so slightly better about splurging on Focal monitors.

[markf31]

Totem Rainmakers - $700 used

Rogue Audio Sphinx - $900 used

Schiit Bifrost fully upgraded - $400 used

Raspberry Pi2- $70

Synology DS412+ with 4TB - $500 used

 

I think this leave me with a lot of future flexibility at just under $2600.

 

The Sphinx is certainly capable of driving any speaker upgrades that I would ever entertain and it also has a great headphone out and an exceptionally good phono stage.

 

The Bifrost's modular design allows future upgrades in the future if/when they become available from Schiit at a minimal cost.

[bluesman]

At less than $100, I don't think I can go wrong. I might consider another DAC with ostensibly better performance down the line - I will need some serious evidence to believe claims to improved quality though. For now this reduction in projected capital outlay makes me feel just ever so slightly better about splurging on Focal monitors.

You absolutely positively did not and can not go wrong with this - it's the true spirit of computer audiophilia. Every Focal product I've seen and heard has been excellent and well worth its cost. I really don't need towers, now that we're downsizing to a 2 BR apartment. But the 'bone drives 'em very nicely, even through a Wadia 151. And they're as beautiful as they are pleasing to the ears, with a flawless piano black finish, elegantly inlaid leather top strip etc.

 

My Focals even make me regret at least some of the unkind things I've said about the French over the years.

 

[Jud]

nelis, I'd be interested in how the ODroid works out for you, and any comparisons you might care to make to the Pi whenever you get around to it.

[davidbeinct]

If I only put in my current computer audio 2-channel setup, it comes in as a bargain, but there have been missteps along the way:

 

Mac Mini, 128 Gig SSD, 1TB LaCie External Hard Drive 16 Gigs RAM - $750

Parasound P-5 Preamp with built-in DAC - $950

Acoustat TNT-120 I think I paid $500 in 1985

Acoustat Model 3 speakers - $500

 

$2700 for a two channel system that in my opinion couldn't be replaced for four times that new.

[nelis]

nelis, I'd be interested in how the ODroid works out for you, and any comparisons you might care to make to the Pi whenever you get around to it.

 

I may actually stick with the RPi and not pursue Odroid + hifi shield. It looks like there is a really interesting race on with developers scrambling to get the best I²S platform on the market. I've ordered Supstronics X400 for now (Supstronics X400 Expansion Board-29.79 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com), a bargain at $27 incl shipping, and the hardware volume control is a nice feature. In future perhaps there will be something with balanced XLR out, like the BerryNOS Red (BerryNOS 1543 red - G2 labs - currently not in stock unfortunately) or something with a Sabre (Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC ES9023 Raspberry Pi A+ B+ 2.0 / I2S - Audiophonics or Hifimediy ES9023 I2S DAC for Raspberry Pi mod B 192Khz/24bit). I'm sure we've not yet hit diminishing marginal improvements in this space so with one platform I can have a lot of fun upgrading to new I²S boards over the next months/years.

 

On another note, it occurs to me that most systems in this topic are heavily tilted to $ for source, amp etc, with relatively less on speakers - but from my limited understanding of good audio the latter are the key component to spend on if you're on a budget?

[4est]

I would say n general this is a good concept. I agree with money going into speakers, and the Pi makes for a great starter into some nice i2s dacs that do not require master clock. First ones that come to mind on the higher end than those listed, would be the Soekris DAM r2r and Twisted Pear Buffalo. Both of these can take the i2s directly out of the Pi and use it with their onboard clocks. I have not tried the Soekris, but it works quite well on the Buffalo.

I may actually stick with the RPi and not pursue Odroid + hifi shield. It looks like there is a really interesting race on with developers scrambling to get the best I²S platform on the market. I've ordered Supstronics X400 for now (Supstronics X400 Expansion Board-29.79 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com), a bargain at $27 incl shipping, and the hardware volume control is a nice feature. In future perhaps there will be something with balanced XLR out, like the BerryNOS Red (BerryNOS 1543 red - G2 labs - currently not in stock unfortunately) or something with a Sabre (Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC ES9023 Raspberry Pi A+ B+ 2.0 / I2S - Audiophonics or Hifimediy ES9023 I2S DAC for Raspberry Pi mod B 192Khz/24bit). I'm sure we've not yet hit diminishing marginal improvements in this space so with one platform I can have a lot of fun upgrading to new I²S boards over the next months/years.

 

On another note, it occurs to me that most systems in this topic are heavily tilted to $ for source, amp etc, with relatively less on speakers - but from my limited understanding of good audio the latter are the key component to spend on if you're on a budget?

[Jud]

On another note, it occurs to me that most systems in this topic are heavily tilted to $ for source, amp etc, with relatively less on speakers - but from my limited understanding of good audio the latter are the key component to spend on if you're on a budget?

 

IMHO:

 

Two things -

 

- People love to try to distinguish among the contributing parts of a system, but maybe it doesn't make the most sense in this case. You're not getting good sound if any one of speakers, source or amplification aren't up to snuff.

 

- There are all sorts of details that create exceptions to the rule: There's something you can DIY; there's something you can get used or in trade or on clearance/demo; your DAC has volume control and doesn't need a preamp; you have player software that bypasses your DAC's filters.... These exceptions can pretty nearly swallow the rule, especially when people get creative about meeting a price point.

[plissken]

On another note, it occurs to me that most systems in this topic are heavily tilted to $ for source, amp etc, with relatively less on speakers - but from my limited understanding of good audio the latter are the key component to spend on if you're on a budget?

 

Not even if you are on a budget. The law of diminishing returns is more quickly ramped up for electronics (DAC, Amp etc) then it is for speakers.

 

I've seen systems where it' been $8K in speakers and $12K in electronics. It's systems that I could decimate with $18K in speakers and $2K in electronics.

 

Speakers are where great bulk of the money should be spent. Every time I see a $600 set of speakers and $1000 in an amp it leaves me wondering.

[4est]

I can buy into your first example much easier than the second. IME, it is easier to find inexpensive speakers that sound great than electronics that do. Once the initial plateau is reached, electronics become much less cost effective. For instance, Magnepans come to mind as a speaker that requires care with electronics. Please, no one take this as a Maggie bash...

Not even if you are on a budget. The law of diminishing returns is more quickly ramped up for electronics (DAC, Amp etc) then it is for speakers.

 

I've seen systems where it' been $8K in speakers and $12K in electronics. It's systems that I could decimate with $18K in speakers and $2K in electronics.

 

Speakers are where great bulk of the money should be spent. Every time I see a $600 set of speakers and $1000 in an amp it leaves me wondering.

[plissken]

I can buy into your first example much easier than the second. IME, it is easier to find inexpensive speakers that sound great than electronics that do. Once the initial plateau is reached, electronics become much less cost effective. For instance, Magnepans come to mind as a speaker that requires care with electronics. Please, no one take this as a Maggie bash...

 

Without too much work you can find $400 amplification that's going to have a flat FR and no coloration.

 

There are a ton of great speakers at the $600 price point. There are even more at $1200 :-)

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Olimex A10 card with LMS/Squeezelite - 30$

Regen - 175$

I.AM.D. V200 full digital amp - 120 $

Pioneer SP-BS22 speakers - 160 $

 

Total: 485$

[4est]

Now in this my answer is reversed. I can get behind your second example, but have not found many $400 amps I could live with using the aforementioned Magnepans, which might be one of my choices. Heck, there is not a speaker in my home that I could pair with most $400 amps due to their load characteristics.

Without too much work you can find $400 amplification that's going to have a flat FR and no coloration.

 

There are a ton of great speakers at the $600 price point. There are even more at $1200 :-)