ComputerAudio - where to start

[Bob Stern]

3. Select it as the output device in Audio MIDI Setup.

A possibly simpler approach to a neophyte is to use OS X System Prefs, which they already know about, instead of introducing "Audio MIDI Setup":

 

Apple menu > System Preferences > Sound > Output tab > "Select a device for sound output" > Click the name of your DAC.

[wgscott]

... or even more simply, option-click on the little speaker icon in the menu bar:

 

[Mike Mcsweeney]

I think a lot of this is over-rated and out-dated...no need for any special windows configuraton...just buy a current dsd dac that isolates the PC source issues.

 

Use foobar or audiogate for optimal sq.

 

Put your money in your speakers and forget everything else...30 minutes invested and spend the rest of your time listening...

[tranz]

I think a lot of this is over-rated and out-dated....just buy a current dsd dac that isolates the PC source issues....

 

Hi Mike,

 

Can you please let us know which magical DAC you have found that does this? Must be the same one JRiver has and is unwilling to share.

 

Cheers

[One and a half]

Hi Mike,

 

Can you please let us know which magical DAC you have found that does this? Must be the same one JRiver has and is unwilling to share.

 

Cheers

 

There's one on the front page of the current CA in the Grace Design m920. The USB mini connector is not connected to chassis. The USB receiver has its own PSU and on the other side of that, there's a NVE IL262 Isolator. The rest of the DAC is after this isolator.

From the specs the IL62 can cope with 100MBs which will do quite nicely. It uses Giant Magnetoresistive technology, (I had to look this up too), if there's a magnetic field established, the resistance changes depending on the whether the fields are parallel or something else.

 

So the signal is transferred over the barrier of a magnetic field, that's how the isolation is achieved. It's like controlling the flux on a transformer, but at extremely high speeds and without the iron memory of a conventional transformer. Quite a neat application of the device, not quite magic, but I guess science was magic at one time

[prot]

I think a lot of this is over-rated and out-dated...no need for any special windows configuraton...just buy a current dsd dac that isolates the PC source issues.

 

Use foobar or audiogate for optimal sq.

 

Might very well be, CA is moving very fast. As I said somewhere else, Windows 8.x DirectSound with a lastgen audio chip is really good. But I would still avoid that default windowsmixer...it's simply not necessary and only adds complexity. As with anythin else, simpler is better and Wasapi/Asio do just that.

 

Put your money in your speakers and forget everything else...30 minutes invested and spend the rest of your time listening...

 

Cant disagree with that...better speakers/HPs is still the best you can do with your money.

[english210]

I'm in your target audience for the initial title of this thread.... easily confused by the limitless options and opinions. I don't mind going through a few set-up steps, but I'm far more interested in listening to music than configuring/tweaking.

I like the concept of the streaming services as well, since its a great way to discover new music/artists.

I'm playing with Tidal right now, and the only way to get it into my system is playing on my phone that's connected to my avr. This tablet doesn't work the same way. But that means I can't browse as conveniently, until I get a device a la sonos/heos/whatever, I guess. For all the technology we have, some things are still far more complicated/incompatible than they need to be, in my incompetent opinion, at least

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Hi Mike,

 

Can you please let us know which magical DAC you have found that does this? Must be the same one JRiver has and is unwilling to share.

 

Cheers

I was referring to Marantz SA8005

Also you can use dlna or many new recievers you can play dsd & flac from the usb port. Even when I didn't use "usb isolating" dac, I didn't hear much of a jump in sq without tweaking windows. imho, the only gains in sq really evident (to me anyway) is with amp and speakers, and I have now tried a dozen different dacs. The Marantz sounded nice, but the cost difference wasn't justified to me, and I sold it after owning it for a month at a $100 loss. but I am always buying and selling hardware and 99% of the time I make money, so it wasn't a big deal for me. I just wanted to hear it. I haven't heard anything that really knocked the socks off of me yet in the way of dacs, and I have tried everything from $100 to $2000 dacs. I will try one of the ifi micros when they come down to $350 or so...right now I just went back to my $225 Korg, which I am content with. Call me crazy, but I still think the best sound is playing dsd directly from usb flash drive using a sony or onkyo embedded dac where No spinners, minimal usb noise, no hdmi jitter, no windows os, no cables, or anything else is involved.

[tranz]

I was referring to Marantz SA8005

Also you can use dlna or many new recievers you can play dsd & flac from the usb port. Even when I didn't use "usb isolating" dac, I didn't hear much of a jump in sq without tweaking windows. imho, the only gains in sq really evident (to me anyway) is with amp and speakers, and I have now tried a dozen different dacs. The Marantz sounded nice, but the cost difference wasn't justified to me, and I sold it after owning it for a month at a $100 loss. but I am always buying and selling hardware and 99% of the time I make money, so it wasn't a big deal for me. I just wanted to hear it. I haven't heard anything that really knocked the socks off of me yet in the way of dacs, and I have tried everything from $100 to $2000 dacs. I will try one of the ifi micros when they come down to $350 or so...right now I just went back to my $225 Korg, which I am content with. Call me crazy, but I still think the best sound is playing dsd directly from usb flash drive using a sony or onkyo embedded dac where No spinners, minimal usb noise, no hdmi jitter, no windows os, no cables, or anything else is involved.

 

Thanks Mike. I listened to a McIntosh's version of the Marantz board, granted a generation older, using it as a DLNA renderer. Not bad, but more for internet radio listening rather than serious listening for me. Your point about tweaking windows before hearing much of a difference is an important one. At some point when lowering noise on a low noise system, little changes start making a difference. But it does mean that the DAC, including the one in your example, is not immune to what happens upstream. At least I have not found one yet.

 

Cheers

[tranz]

There's one on the front page of the current CA in the Grace Design m920. The USB mini connector is not connected to chassis. The USB receiver has its own PSU and on the other side of that, there's a NVE IL262 Isolator. The rest of the DAC is after this isolator.

From the specs the IL62 can cope with 100MBs which will do quite nicely. It uses Giant Magnetoresistive technology, (I had to look this up too), if there's a magnetic field established, the resistance changes depending on the whether the fields are parallel or something else.

 

So the signal is transferred over the barrier of a magnetic field, that's how the isolation is achieved. It's like controlling the flux on a transformer, but at extremely high speeds and without the iron memory of a conventional transformer. Quite a neat application of the device, not quite magic, but I guess science was magic at one time

 

Thanks 1.5. I eyed that one a while back as a headphone dac/amp but have not heard it. On paper it looks good. That GMR is what John Swenson also works with. Wonder which other DACs use that as well. Perhaps even the likes of MSB, TotalDac and EmmLabs.

 

Cheers

[One and a half]

Thanks 1.5. I eyed that one a while back as a headphone dac/amp but have not heard it. On paper it looks good. That GMR is what John Swenson also works with. Wonder which other DACs use that as well. Perhaps even the likes of MSB, TotalDac and EmmLabs.

 

Cheers

 

I don't why Grace Design doesn't make more noise (hehe) about this feature, maybe it's inherent in their philosophy design approach that's their standard and thought nothing of it, as the correct way (or one of them).

 

Unless you pull the DACs apart, you won't know or the designer tells you or it appears in a marketing approach. I've been away a fair bit recently, and the m920 is at home, that's going to change for the holidays. More time to listen to the m920.

[blueixus]

I surprised there is such a big deal about the GMR. It ha been around for a long while - here is an excellent USB converter (aimed at the DIY market) that retails for 99 Euros with GMR

 

 

more info here

 

I have been using this in a couple of Dacs and it is a fine product.

[prot]

I'm in your target audience for the initial title of this thread.... easily confused by the limitless options and opinions. I don't mind going through a few set-up steps, but I'm far more interested in listening to music than configuring/tweaking.

I like the concept of the streaming services as well, since its a great way to discover new music/artists.

I'm playing with Tidal right now, and the only way to get it into my system is playing on my phone that's connected to my avr. This tablet doesn't work the same way. But that means I can't browse as conveniently, until I get a device a la sonos/heos/whatever, I guess. For all the technology we have, some things are still far more complicated/incompatible than they need to be, in my incompetent opinion, at least

 

Well, noone likes to do the time . But you are right, things are overly complex in the CA world.

Streaming solutions may be your best bet and a Sonos system or an all-apple environment are surely simpler that dealing with e.g. foobar on windows...although their usual "it just works" advertising is still a marketing slogan only.

The SQ of sonos&co is already very good, should be enough for most people...just don't expect it to be same as good as a pair of e.g. top SonusFaber speakers . But things are moving fast in the streaming/wireless area and something like Dynaudio Xeo already is hard to distinguish from the mythical "audiophile quality"...also the new Devialet Phantom seems to be quite something for just a few thousands...and the latest Avrs are also very very good and offer at least Spotify.

Oh well, a brave new world everywhere

I'll still check the reference section of that tempered website, many terms apply to streaming too and any form of digital audio.

[english210]

One of the reasons for wanting to get this going is the quality of my Aerials, and wanting to 'feed' them good input. Pandora sounds good, so how much better can they sound with a quality source? So, some work is expected and ok, I just hope to be able to get the setup done and then be good to go. I know, that's probably a pipe dream in this world, but its a worthy goal, right?

 

Back to the reading....I did read over the Well Tempered you provided,

[prot]

One of the reasons for wanting to get this going is the quality of my Aerials, and wanting to 'feed' them good input. Pandora sounds good, so how much better can they sound with a quality source? So, some work is expected and ok, I just hope to be able to get the setup done and then be good to go. I know, that's probably a pipe dream in this world, but its a worthy goal, right?

 

Back to the reading....I did read over the Well Tempered you provided,

 

Never heard your Aerials, guess you are talking about one of those

http://www.aerialacoustics.com/products/index.aspx

They look pretty good and should be able to provide very good SQ... much better than Pandora streaming. However, some speakers improve a lot with the source quality, some not so much...room acoustics matter a lot too.

If you have a lastgen Avr, should be easy to test. Grab some losless music files & play them through DLNA via Avr. Or setup a pc/laptop like in the first post, connect it to Avr via HDMI and play those losless files from foobar/wasapi.

[prot]

I surprised there is such a big deal about the GMR. It ha been around for a long while - here is an excellent USB converter (aimed at the DIY market) that retails for 99 Euros with GMR

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15956[/ATTACH]

 

more info here

 

I have been using this in a couple of Dacs and it is a fine product.

 

Any idea how hard it is to put something like that into a DAC like Minimax Plus?

[gmgraves]

With you there 100%... the entire hw & sw USB stack just adds unnecesary complexity.

But it's unfortunately the most popular and all the rage nowadays. Wish there was any alternative in terms of both convenience & quality.

 

The Windows world never fully embraced the much better Firewire (IEEE1394) interface, and stuck with the inferior USB. Since Microsoft was the 800 pound gorilla in the computer room in those days, the world was/is stuck with USB. Had Apple been the big monkey instead of MS, we would be dealing with Firewire Audio instead of USB audio. As someone who has used both USB and Firewire as a recording interface, I can assure you that Firewire is better in all sorts of ways, including noise.

[sbgk]

I surprised there is such a big deal about the GMR. It ha been around for a long while - here is an excellent USB converter (aimed at the DIY market) that retails for 99 Euros with GMR

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15956[/ATTACH]

 

more info here

 

I have been using this in a couple of Dacs and it is a fine product.

 

have some users that have waveio's who can still hear differences between versions of player, thought gmr would stop that.

[Audio_ELF]

have some users that have waveio's who can still hear differences between versions of player, thought gmr would stop that.

Of course they hear the differences because they believe in the people who tell them there are differences!

[prot]

Of course they hear the differences because they believe in the people who tell them there are differences!

 

And that children is the great story of theDifferences

[StephenJK]

Here is a Mac version:

 

1. Buy a DAC.

 

2. Plug it into your Apple computer using USB, optical digital, or HDMI, depending on your preference.

 

3. Select it as the output device in Audio MIDI Setup. Don't install anything.

 

4. Open up iTunes, turn on the music and relax while you think about all the incantations and crap those who have windows have to go through in order to get to this step.

 

Yes, and enjoy the low resolution music that was meant to be listened to with an iPod and ear buds.

 

So much easier, so much less satisfying.

[goldsdad]

Yes, and enjoy the low resolution music that was meant to be listened to with an iPod and ear buds.

 

Is 32-bit 384 kHz stereo PCM now classed as low resolution when it's played by iTunes?

[prot]

Is 32-bit 384 kHz stereo PCM now classed as low resolution when it's played by iTunes?

 

no idea ... but 32/384 is prolly quite a waste of hdd-space