Help me choose a new DAC

[prot]

This thread seems kinda dead...hopefully the new mmax supreme owners will revive it

[bmoura]

This thread seems kinda dead...hopefully the new mmax supreme owners will revive it

 

I'm sure that many people have picked up a new DAC and are now over on the Audiophile Downloads section - talking about enjoying the music on those new DACs. Glad to see it !

[Kelly]

This thread seems kinda dead...hopefully the new mmax supreme owners will revive it

 

Ha! That statement was kinda funny to me. I actually started the thread and ended up with a new DAC a few months ago. Scored an Ayre QB-9DSD with which I am very happy. It's too bad that it is such an expensive hobby as there are a whole lot of things I'd love to try, even if just for a while.

[bmoura]

Ha! That statement was kinda funny to me. I actually started the thread and ended up with a new DAC a few months ago. Scored an Ayre QB-9DSD with which I am very happy. It's too bad that it is such an expensive hobby as there are a whole lot of things I'd love to try, even if just for a while.

 

Yes and now you can check out the downloads at Native DSD, Blue Coast, DSD File, Super HiRez and all the download sites. Even more fun that DAC comparisons and testing!

[prot]

Ha! That statement was kinda funny to me. I actually started the thread and ended up with a new DAC a few months ago. Scored an Ayre QB-9DSD with which I am very happy. It's too bad that it is such an expensive hobby as there are a whole lot of things I'd love to try, even if just for a while.

 

Sounds like the thread worked wonders for you

I'm primarily interested in the mmax supreme and generally mmax mods. Considering its initial purpose this is not the best thread for me...but up to now it is the most informative Supreme thread anywhere...unfortunately looks like the new owners are just happily enjoying their devices and stopped posting.

[Kelly]

I would have definitely considered something like the mini-max but after some lackluster previous experiences I have ended up with a policy of never purchasing anything I haven't heard before. I'm not likely to return something within a 30 day window. I was able to go hear the Ayre several times and so that is how I ended up with it. Unfortunately I may end up missing out of some good stuff that way.

[prot]

I would have definitely considered something like the mini-max but after some lackluster previous experiences I have ended up with a policy of never purchasing anything I haven't heard before. I'm not likely to return something within a 30 day window. I was able to go hear the Ayre several times and so that is how I ended up with it. Unfortunately I may end up missing out of some good stuff that way.

 

In this world saturated of so called "reviews" that's a very good policy. I wont pay more than 1K for something I havent heard personally. Although I did it once . Luckily it went just perfect.

The mmax plus is a wonderful device. Had a lot of modding pleasure with it (opamps & tubes) and never missed a single bit. Many ppl complain about the so called topend harshness of sabre chips but I dont hear any of that...just a big and very musical soundstage. Heard some of that hardness in a Mytek192 though.

Oh well, I dont have much exp with >2K DACs but I kinda have a feeling that there isn't much up there. E.g. the original mmax came very close to the ~$5K Lampizator L4

http://www.stereomojo.com/Stereomojo%20Six%20DAC%20Shootout.htm/StereomojoSixDACShootout.htm

And my mmax plus was reviewed as a "significant improvement" over the original mmax. So, where does it stand? Dont know, dont care...it just plays beautiful music for me

[spdif-usb]

Sounds like the thread worked wonders for you

I'm primarily interested in the mmax supreme and generally mmax mods. Considering its initial purpose this is not the best thread for me...but up to now it is the most informative Supreme thread anywhere...unfortunately looks like the new owners are just happily enjoying their devices and stopped posting.

Being able to enjoy the music instead of the devices is where the Supreme really shines IMO.

[prot]

Being able to enjoy the music instead of the devices is where the Supreme really shines IMO.

 

Thx for rejoining. You seem to be my perfect reference as you upgraded from plus to supreme

 

My plus is modded with the lme49990 opamps who brought extra detail & clarity ... and I tried almost every compatible tube out there...including the much praised telefunken802. My favourites are the e80cc ones from tungsram/valvo/siemens...all very good and one level above the original tube which was just ok. I know pureSS mode sounds a bit more clear & crisp but I just like the tube sound.

 

So...considering all that...do you think the supreme will be a worthy & natural upgrade? (dont care that much about DSD although that's a nice extra).

And btw, did you try some usb-spdif converters with your Plus and can recommend some? (currently thinkin about an audiophilleo or the new Gustard which is really cheap and some say better than audiphilleo2)

[spdif-usb]

Thx for rejoining. You seem to be my perfect reference as you upgraded from plus to supreme

 

My plus is modded with the lme49990 opamps who brought extra detail & clarity ... and I tried almost every compatible tube out there...including the much praised telefunken802. My favourites are the e80cc ones from tungsram/valvo/siemens...all very good and one level above the original tube which was just ok. I know pureSS mode sounds a bit more clear & crisp but I just like the tube sound.

 

So...considering all that...do you think the supreme will be a worthy & natural upgrade? (dont care that much about DSD although that's a nice extra).

And btw, did you try some usb-spdif converters with your Plus and can recommend some? (currently thinkin about an audiophilleo or the new Gustard which is really cheap and some say better than audiphilleo2)

Speaking of E80CC tubes, I would like to add the Amperex PQ high at the top of that list of yours, but IMO the problem with NOS tubes is always finding (non fake) ones that are in good shape at reasonable prices. The Psvane 12AU7-T appears to be a very respectable alternative choice IMO, although as the saying goes... what works for me won't necessarily work for others. I guess the same holds true about DSD which, like you, I don't care that much about. That is, despite the fact I think the MiniMax DAC Supreme more than holds its own with DSD compared to other DACs in its price range. As for using a USB-to-S/PDIF adapter device, typical S/PDIF (i.e. without the addition of an external clock feed) has a lot more jitter than asynchronous USB, and IMO the galvanic isolation of the asynchronous USB input on both the Supreme and the Plus leaves so very little to be desired that I completely fail to understand the reason why anyone with one of these DACs would want to hang on to jittery old S/PDIF, but hey... what works for me...

 

Anyway, though, I can't be the judge of how much more you are going to love the Supreme than you say you love the Plus, but as far as I can listen in both SS and tube mode, the upgrade from the Plus to the Supreme is not at all subtle. Given the insurmountable fact that the Plus is a long distance away from being a slouch, I can only conclude that the Supreme will almost undoubtedly be money very well spent regardless of whether you already own the Plus.

[clipper]

Thx for rejoining. You seem to be my perfect reference as you upgraded from plus to supreme

 

So...considering all that...do you think the supreme will be a worthy & natural upgrade? (dont care that much about DSD although that's a nice extra).

 

I consider the Supreme a significant upgrade to the Plus.

 

Regarding DSD: when I got the Supreme, I wasn't sure how much DSD use it would see. Sure, I thought it would be fun to play around with the occasional DSD file. But I now use HQPlayer to upsample PCM to DSD and I am floored by how great it sounds. Brilliant software! It really is incredible (to me) that redbook can sound this good. I urge you to give this a try if you get the Supreme (or any DSD DAC for that matter).

[clipper]

Speaking of E80CC tubes, I would like to add the Amperex PQ high at the top of that list of yours

 

Love the Amperex PQ. I go with an old Mullard long plate square getter (k61) most of the time. Sometimes I throw in a HIVAC CV491 square getter for a little added warmth and a nice tone. Tried the Telefunken ECC802S (like prot) and liked it, but didn't love it. It was a little too clean and sterile for me. I am a huge fan of other Telefunken tubes (ECL82 and E88CC).

[prot]

Speaking of E80CC tubes, I would like to add the Amperex PQ high at the top of that list of yours, but IMO the problem with NOS tubes is always finding (non fake) ones that are in good shape at reasonable prices. The Psvane 12AU7-T appears to be a very respectable alternative choice IMO, although as the saying goes... what works for me won't necessarily work for others. I guess the same holds true about DSD which, like you, I don't care that much about. That is, despite the fact I think the MiniMax DAC Supreme more than holds its own with DSD compared to other DACs in its price range. As for using a USB-to-S/PDIF adapter device, typical S/PDIF (i.e. without the addition of an external clock feed) has a lot more jitter than asynchronous USB, and IMO the galvanic isolation of the asynchronous USB input on both the Supreme and the Plus leaves so very little to be desired that I completely fail to understand the reason why anyone with one of these DACs would want to hang on to jittery old S/PDIF, but hey... what works for me...

 

Anyway, though, I can't be the judge of how much more you are going to love the Supreme than you say you love the Plus, but as far as I can listen in both SS and tube mode, the upgrade from the Plus to the Supreme is not at all subtle. Given the insurmountable fact that the Plus is a long distance away from being a slouch, I can only conclude that the Supreme will almost undoubtedly be money very well spent regardless of whether you already own the Plus.

 

That amperex pq may be the only one I missed. Hard to find in EU and very expensive...plus, some say that the siemens e80cc are pretty much the same...and there's not much diff between the various e80cc, all sound similar & very good to me. Currently using a Valvo. Buying tubes is surely a hit&miss mess but I can recomend the Tungsram... there are still big stocks of NOS and they are cheap (at least on ebay EU).

Tried a pair of psvanes...reference stock & all...they dont fit well in my system, too much 'tube honey'.

 

About usb&spdif, agree with you in principle. It's just that I kinda got out of upgrade ideas . And since that Gustard is less than $150 shipped from China, I kinda got bitten. Will prolly try it.

 

Anyway, thx for the answer, pretty much all I wanted to hear. I wasnt even thinkin about a DAC upgrade before the Supreme came but now it's on my list for 'sometime next year'. Got a few other audio prios and sooo little time.

[prot]

I consider the Supreme a significant upgrade to the Plus.

 

Regarding DSD: when I got the Supreme, I wasn't sure how much DSD use it would see. Sure, I thought it would be fun to play around with the occasional DSD file. But I now use HQPlayer to upsample PCM to DSD and I am floored by how great it sounds. Brilliant software! It really is incredible (to me) that redbook can sound this good. I urge you to give this a try if you get the Supreme (or any DSD DAC for that matter).

 

Uf, this upgraditis is such a disease. Been so happy with my Plus, I never thought my dac-upgrade urge will ever reach such levels.

 

You're not the first I heard praising the Pcm2Dsd way and generally the Dsd128/256 format. Another thing to test at some point although I'm generally quite skeptic when it comes to "highres sounds better" claims. But then (in theory) the Dac needs to do much less processing for Dsd files ...guess there may be something there and it's surely worth a try.

 

Btw, any idea if the Supreme can be upgraded to dsd256 in the future? Or are there HW limitations?

[Emcee]

Regarding tubes for the MiniMax...

 

In addition to the stock tube I tried a couple of popular modern 12au7 tubes Psvanes, Genelex Gold Lion reissue. They're OK but lack the balance of the NOS Mullard.

I was lucky enough to grab one before prices skyrocketed. As usual it's a case of diminishing returns but if you want the very best for your MiniMax THIS is the one.

[prot]

Regarding tubes for the MiniMax...

 

In addition to the stock tube I tried a couple of popular modern 12au7 tubes Psvanes, Genelex Gold Lion reissue. They're OK but lack the balance of the NOS Mullard.

I was lucky enough to grab one before prices skyrocketed. As usual it's a case of diminishing returns but if you want the very best for your MiniMax THIS is the one.

 

Seems to be a really great tube but for $300 I can prolly upgrade my Plus to Supreme . Or buy a lifelong supply of e80cc tungsrams who are very good too.

 

Some of those tubes are just majorly overpriced. The telekunken802 can go over $500 new. I was very lucky to score an used one who measures almost new for ~$75 on ebay. Even so, that wasn't much of a lucky strike and it just sits in a drawer as a sort of audiophile-trophy ...may even resell it cause for me it's not worth the astronomic price.

[morningstaraudio]

I know PeteG was using the Sparko Labs op-amps which made me order some to compare.

Great tone, more full bodied then the Dexa's and just a joy to listen too. Highly recommended, using a 1950's Hivac 12AU7 helps a lot also.

[usblues]

Bel Canto has some really good stuff.I'm still using a 5 yr old DAC 111 and it is excellent.Good luck,Bob

[mac_and_dac]

As for using a USB-to-S/PDIF adapter device, typical S/PDIF (i.e. without the addition of an external clock feed) has a lot more jitter than asynchronous USB, and IMO the galvanic isolation of the asynchronous USB input on both the Supreme and the Plus leaves so very little to be desired that I completely fail to understand the reason why anyone with one of these DACs would want to hang on to jittery old S/PDIF, but hey... what works for me...

 

USB is the way to go, as spdif-usb says, unless like me you have had issues with the drivers - which is largely my own problem, due to the RPi set-up.

 

But the Toslink sound it must be said is surprisingly clean and 'un-jittery'.

 

I spoke to someone who re-engineers MiniMax DAC's a couple of weeks ago about this, and got this response:

 

"Everything gets reclocked by the on-board masterclock in the ESS9018 DAC implementation (hence their claim of jitter free). So does not matter if you are using toslink or not. There is a certain warmer sound to Toslink, so I will say if that works for you then continue to use it. No right or wrong."

 

I don't know who is right or wrong, and spdif-usb I certainly value your opinion highly, but I thought I would mention this as I am still trying to understand why the RPi+SPDIF sound from my MiniMax bests the MacMini + USB I can also use.

 

Anyway, in short, the MiniMax DACs are fabulous and extremely natural sounding. Hard to go wrong with them. The only shortcoming I have noticed - and as raised in a previous post - is they are a little lacking in bass vis-a-vis one or two of the competitors in the price bracket.

[wisnon]

Regarding tubes for the MiniMax...

 

In addition to the stock tube I tried a couple of popular modern 12au7 tubes Psvanes, Genelex Gold Lion reissue. They're OK but lack the balance of the NOS Mullard.

I was lucky enough to grab one before prices skyrocketed. As usual it's a case of diminishing returns but if you want the very best for your MiniMax THIS is the one.

 

Non, no!

 

Get some cheaper used Phillips Holand and Pope tubes. You dont need NOS for a Dac, just decent emissions and you save a ton. Tungsram are also great!

[prot]

I know PeteG was using the Sparko Labs op-amps which made me order some to compare.

Great tone, more full bodied then the Dexa's and just a joy to listen too. Highly recommended, using a 1950's Hivac 12AU7 helps a lot also.

 

Thy for the update, guess I gotta try them now.

 

Btw, anyone who tried usb-spdif converters with the minimax and can comment on the results?

[mac_and_dac]

Btw, anyone who tried usb-spdif converters with the minimax and can comment on the results?

 

I use a very basic PCM2704 implementation for my transport, costing about 40 dollars. I've avoided thus far spending $$$ on high quality converters since:

a) I intend to move over to USB when I can

b) according to the ESS literature, the implementation of the S/PDIF interface of the Sabre chip "avoids having to extract the clock at all"

 

Regarding b), as I have admitted in my preceding post, I don't fully understand how this is managed/implemented, but the ESS functional block diagram does show that a separate (master) clock is part of the intermediate processing prior to the proprietary internal jitter reduction function. People smarter than me may be able to explain better what is going on, but I would be amazed if Dustin and his crew at ESS had put all this effort into jitter reduction but ignored the S/PDIF interface.

 

Happy to be corrected here ... I would love to understand this area better.

 

On a completely subjective basis: jitter has a sound, and my MiniMax set-up sounds incredibly un-jittery to my ears.

[TubeLover]

Bob,

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts on the E22. Hands on reports are priceless.

 

 

JC

 

We’ve been familiar with exaSound for some time, but the company’s stereo e22 digital-to-analog converter is new to me and arrived three weeks ago. I love it. Setting up the interface with the computer was effortless, and we found the exaSound software interface meshes nicely with J River. Given my job in recent weeks, checking our new 256fs DSD files (Quad DSD) for release on NativeDSD.com, I have spent considerable time with the e22.

 

It was musical out of the box. George Klissarov, the designer at exaSound, told me that the units are only broken in for 24 hours before shipping (reminiscent of a tube burn-in in the Navy to check for defects in the “good old days”). So the e22’s initial musicality impressed me. After a couple hundred hours it is liquid and transparent at the same time. Clean recordings sound really clean. Dark recordings sound dark. Bright edgy recordings sound bright and edgy. The e22 demonstrated all of these characteristics with Miles Davis’ famous Porgy and Bess. What more could a producer want than a component that tells us the truth?

 

We’ve been using the a-synchronous USB connection the most, given we’ve been working on DSD files, but the coaxial output from a simple CD player works beautifully and sounds great as well. George designed this DAC to play whatever format it is fed, all the way up to high resolution PCM (384kHz at 32bit) and DSD files up to 11.2896 / 12.288 MHz (Quad DSD or DSD256) without breaking a sweat. The unit plays any file of which I’ve heard, also including some of those “less glamorous” portable formats in lower resolution which we hope fewer and fewer people use in favor of lossless formats.

 

I listen through a number of vacuum tubes in preamplification and power amplification in the “big system,” but I also check all our new files on a passive transformer volume control directly to a solid state amplifier. The exaSound’s elegant and easy to use internal volume control allowed us to omit the transformer volume control and plug from the exaSound directly into the amplifier. Again, a very happy and informative combination.

 

We are grateful to exaSound for underwriting our first quartet of DSD releases at NativeDSD.com (The exaSound Quartet), but I didn’t own the e22 at the time. Next Friday (December 12^th ) marks the release of our Merging Technologies Quartet of DSD releases, and these we were able to check and thoroughly enjoy using the e22. In the meantime, the exaSound Quartet can be sampled at https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com/ Thank you George!

 

For more information about the e22, please visit www.exaSound.com

 

Bob Attiyeh, producer

 

 

Yarlung Records

www.yarlungrecords.com

[User24]

Upsampling pcm to dsd 5.6mhz in Foobar is the best method I have to improve music when necessary. Not interested in downloads at all.

 

I am not sure if the sabre dsd processing is kept dsd, or whether there is pcm conversion involved.

 

The Ee dac plus is ok via usb, just a lot clearer via bnc from an audiophilleo 2 with teddyusb power supply. Usually the audiophilleo is reserved for other uses though.

 

I have a number of systems, whether for the garage, office, living room. Dac wise the ee plus with dexa has been best for gaming, netflix, movies due to the detail in making dialogue sharp and action effects realistic. The treble is too bright on both sabre dacs (peachtree nova 220se in the office), so for music it is either my audionote kit or the teac ud501 to dsd the crappy pcm songs.

 

I use ps audio power regeneration on the main system, I have planars in two systems, several omnis, single drivers, several headphones, several more dacs. I am interested in a supreme, that way I can do dsd with tube output, something that is rare.

 

My dac plus experience has been unreliable though, a failed tube input that required a whole new unit, and then a failed toslink input that I had to order and replace myself. Without toslink it would be useless in a gaming and theater system. If you roll tubes I would use a tube pin socket to take the abuse of plugging tubes until you settle on one for the long term. Those tube pins on the ee are not the easiest to use.

[DanSmedra]

Sounds like the thread worked wonders for you

I'm primarily interested in the mmax supreme and generally mmax mods. Considering its initial purpose this is not the best thread for me...but up to now it is the most informative Supreme thread anywhere...unfortunately looks like the new owners are just happily enjoying their devices and stopped posting.

 

Ditto. I'm getting very close to possibly 'pulling the trigger' myself. Bill O told me that Doug Schroeder, over at dagogo has both EE current DAC models for review. In questioning him about USB implementation, Bill did reveal that it didn't go so well with the mmax plus...but that the engineers had supposedly addressed the issue(s) with the Supreme and Junior (critical, since that's the only input option).