Help me choose a new DAC

[bmoura]

Try exaSound, if you get hooked on DSD it will have you covered. I also find DSD upconversion (using JRiver) to sound significantly better on the exaSound that it did on the micro iDSD that I briefly owned.

 

Agreed. With support for up to DSD 256 and up to 8 Channels of high bit rate PCM and DSD, the exaSound DACs - especially the e28 model - have you covered for every download available today.

 

Down the road, other DAC makers will catch up in their support of multiple resolutions along with Stereo and Multichannel. For now, I'm sure being alone in that doesn't bother George and the exaSound team!

[spdif-usb]

I have tried the Plus with the tube pulled. I think it sounds great, with a little more resolution than what I seem to get with a tube. But I like the extra "body" I get with a good tube, which is a preference I'm sure is system dependent. (My system includes Magnepan speakers and silver interconnect and speaker cables). I could easily live with the sound in either tube or SS mode, though.

 

I have only listened to the Supreme in tube mode so far. I'll listen a bit in SS mode and will then pull the tube and follow up with some (subjective) thoughts on what it sounds like. But I can tell you that in tube mode the Supreme seems (to me) to be in a different league altogether than the Plus. More resolving, better tone and body, less "digital" sounding, better soundstage, etc... And I loved (and still do love) my Plus.

I got the Supreme yesterday. You were absolutely right... it's better than my Plus, and by a fair margin IMO.

[bmoura]

BMC PureDac...$1900 new. Great HP amp and balanced with very good VC. SS dac.

 

A used Lampi L4 with DSD...should be less than $4K and will sound superb.

Similar for AMR-DP777 and Aesthetix...AMR does not do DSD, but has 2 chipets for NOS and high-rez PCM. The recent upgrade to the circuit takes it up a notch.

 

As you can see, I like the tube Dacs.

 

 

As more people hear tube DACs, I think they will be enjoying even more popularity. There's definitely something very nice happening there musically.

 

And several - including the Lampizator Amber and DSD DAC come in at under $4k brand new. Not to mention the used Lampizator 4 units you mention. I'm certainly enjoying the Lampizator DSD DAC here - I sent Lampizator a check vs. returning it when my review was completed!

 

Lampizator's 5th Generation DSD DAC

[Jon L]

I got the Supreme yesterday. You were absolutely right... it's better than my Plus, and by a fair margin IMO.

 

Congrats. Hopefully you can provide some first-hand comparison of Plus vs. Supreme with SS output with discrete op-amps all around.

[Solstice380]

Here is a nice, but not thorough, listing of DSD DACS with feature comparison. It's at the Sonore website:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0

[bmoura]

Here is a nice, but not thorough, listing of DSD DACS with feature comparison. It's at the Sonore website:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0

 

If there are DSD DACs missing, let me know and they will get added.

[Yarlung Records]

We’ve been familiar with exaSound for some time, but the company’s stereo e22 digital-to-analog converter is new to me and arrived three weeks ago. I love it. Setting up the interface with the computer was effortless, and we found the exaSound software interface meshes nicely with J River. Given my job in recent weeks, checking our new 256fs DSD files (Quad DSD) for release on NativeDSD.com, I have spent considerable time with the e22.

 

It was musical out of the box. George Klissarov, the designer at exaSound, told me that the units are only broken in for 24 hours before shipping (reminiscent of a tube burn-in in the Navy to check for defects in the “good old days”). So the e22’s initial musicality impressed me. After a couple hundred hours it is liquid and transparent at the same time. Clean recordings sound really clean. Dark recordings sound dark. Bright edgy recordings sound bright and edgy. The e22 demonstrated all of these characteristics with Miles Davis’ famous Porgy and Bess. What more could a producer want than a component that tells us the truth?

 

We’ve been using the a-synchronous USB connection the most, given we’ve been working on DSD files, but the coaxial output from a simple CD player works beautifully and sounds great as well. George designed this DAC to play whatever format it is fed, all the way up to high resolution PCM (384kHz at 32bit) and DSD files up to 11.2896 / 12.288 MHz (Quad DSD or DSD256) without breaking a sweat. The unit plays any file of which I’ve heard, also including some of those “less glamorous” portable formats in lower resolution which we hope fewer and fewer people use in favor of lossless formats.

 

I listen through a number of vacuum tubes in preamplification and power amplification in the “big system,” but I also check all our new files on a passive transformer volume control directly to a solid state amplifier. The exaSound’s elegant and easy to use internal volume control allowed us to omit the transformer volume control and plug from the exaSound directly into the amplifier. Again, a very happy and informative combination.

 

We are grateful to exaSound for underwriting our first quartet of DSD releases at NativeDSD.com (The exaSound Quartet), but I didn’t own the e22 at the time. Next Friday (December 12^th ) marks the release of our Merging Technologies Quartet of DSD releases, and these we were able to check and thoroughly enjoy using the e22. In the meantime, the exaSound Quartet can be sampled at https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com/ Thank you George!

 

For more information about the e22, please visit www.exaSound.com

 

Bob Attiyeh, producer

 

 

Yarlung Records

www.yarlungrecords.com

[mac_and_dac]

I got the Supreme yesterday. You were absolutely right... it's better than my Plus, and by a fair margin IMO.

 

Great to hear that! My Supreme is on order, I hope it doesn't get lost in the Xmas post...

[clipper]

I got the Supreme yesterday. You were absolutely right... it's better than my Plus, and by a fair margin IMO.

 

Love it! Congrats!

 

The first review of the Supreme came out a few days ago. See Eastern Electric Mini Max Supreme DAC Review*-*AVRev.com.

 

Eastern Electric's Minimax Junior is also a great DAC and a real bargain in my opinion if you don't need more than one input (which is USB).

[mac_and_dac]

The other great thing is that, as well as sounding superb OOTB, you can easily tweak/mod the Minimax's by rolling tubes and/or op amps.

 

They are also ripe for more serious modding, although how much difference changing out the caps, diodes and the clock will make is moot, and could be subject to the law of diminishing returns. I will report back on that one ... ;-)

[spdif-usb]

Congrats. Hopefully you can provide some first-hand comparison of Plus vs. Supreme with SS output with discrete op-amps all around.

Well, IMO the Plus with the tube pulled and using stock op-amps already provides a VERY palpable sound IMO, and good enough to, in a number of ways, even best that of the old Lampi level 4. However, I think clipper was right, i.e. that the Supreme is in a whole different league than the Plus. So IMO it does make all the perfect sense to put the Supreme in the same ballpark as the big boys, such as the new Lampi level 5. That is, soundwise, as the price difference between the Lampi level 5 and the Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme is not in any way easy to overlook.

 

One of the things that always struck me after I got my Plus (it's been three years two and a half months) is how Eastern Electric had managed to make the ES9018 chip sound so incredibly natural compared to all other SABRE DACs I've heard. Like a dual mono Wolfson DAC, which can be very musical, but without the veil that typifies dual mono Wolfsons, and with screamingly better dynamics, making things sound far more musical still. That is why I had a real hard time justifying to replace my beloved Plus, but finally I caved. The Supreme does indeed sound more natural than the Plus. There's more clarity, more depth, more liquidity, more musicality... more MOJO! If there exists a word that accurately describes the sound of the Supreme, it must be just that... Supreme.

[spdif-usb]

Great to hear that! My Supreme is on order, I hope it doesn't get lost in the Xmas post...

I picked mine up at the official distributor here in Belgium, which is the country where I live. A company named TOAC ('The Original Audio Company'); it is listed on the Eastern Electric official website.

 

The Supreme uses an Xmos chip for its asynchronous USB input, so be sure to hook up the USB cable before installing the device driver software (available as a free download on the official product page of the DAC). The driver is ASIO-compatible, and can support DSD playback via DoP. ( I followed this guide and had DSD working in foobar2000 in less than a few minutes.)

[spdif-usb]

Love it! Congrats!

 

The first review of the Supreme came out a few days ago. See Eastern Electric Mini Max Supreme DAC Review*-*AVRev.com.

 

Eastern Electric's Minimax Junior is also a great DAC and a real bargain in my opinion if you don't need more than one input (which is USB).

Your own personal 'mini review' (here in this thread) was basically all I needed in order to finally convince myself getting the Supreme. Thanks a lot, BTW!

[PeteG]

Will be burning-in a EE Supreme dac with Sparko Labs opamps in it this weekend.

[morningstaraudio]

Hi Pete,

 

I was looking at the specs on the Sparko Labs op-amps and was concerned about the Gain of these so I asked Alex Yeung to comment on their use to see if compatible, I'm almost certain they are but always best to check with the designer. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from him. Better safe than sorry

[PeteG]

Bill, thanks.

[morningstaraudio]

This was from Alex

."Hi Bill,

 

The output will sound louder with these higher gain opamps. But I think it will be fine as long as it does not over drive your preamp inputs.

 

Hope the above helps.

 

Thanks.

 

Best regards,

 

Alex"

[PeteG]

This was from Alex

."Hi Bill,

 

The output will sound louder with these higher gain opamps. But I think it will be fine as long as it does not over drive your preamp inputs.

 

Hope the above helps.

 

Thanks.

 

Best regards,

 

Alex"

 

Bill, thanks for the info. Pre-amp is passive/active, shouldn't be any worries. It will be nice to get a little warm tube sound in my system.

[clipper]

Opamps -

 

Yesterday I pulled the Dexa Discrete op-amps (2 singles and 2 duals) that I had in my Minimax Plus.

 

I threw the 2 singles in the Minimax Junior that I have and the 2 duals in the Minimax Supreme.

 

Both DACs were great before the swap, but after 1 day of listening I'm really happy with what I hear.

 

In case this helps anyone:

 

The Supreme has 4 op-amps. See the attached photo. The two singles (5534s) are towards the front. The two duals (5532s) are towards the back.

 

The Junior has 2 op-amps, both singles (5534s).

 

Each stock op-amp has a little circle in one of the corners. In the Supreme's op-amps, all 4 circles are in the bottom right corners.

 

In the Junior, the op-amp on the left has the circle on the bottom right; the op-amp on the right has the circle on the top left.

 

When putting in Dexa Discretes, the position of the half moon (with respect to facing front or back) should correspond to the position of the circle. So with the Supreme, all 4 half moons should face the front of the Dac.

 

In the Junior, the half moon for the op-amp on the left (if you're looking from the front of the DAC) should face the front of the DAC; the half moon for the op-amp on the right should face the back of the DAC.

 

 

 

[PeteG]

After about four hrs burn-in I'm very happy in what I'm hearing, I will give it a while before any critical listening.

 

I don't have to worry about the extra gain that the Sparko Labs op-amps have, sound is so smooth and analog like I just kept turning it up. A plus with the Sparko op-amps they are very low profile unlike other discrete op-amps.

 

 

DSD is a big plus too.

[bhobba]

Thanks again and let me know how the DirectStream does in your shootout

 

There were two planned - one has now been completed:

LenehanAudio GTG. Sat 29th - Lenehan Audio - StereoNET

 

The DAC's were:

 

My Killer DAC - A highly musical DAC hand made in minuscule quantities by a guy up the road from where I live but with a very loyal following. Everyone recognises it as a good DAC - but its designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts to sound musical and real - it purely depends on if that sort of thing is your bag - its mine - but others don't necessarily agree. My personal favourite DAC. Pity most people reading this probably wont be able to hear it - maybe one day I can send one on over to the US.

 

The Direct Stream fully loaded with the latest firmware etc. It has been impressing quite a few out my way. For me its a bit up and down - I have heard it sound very good - and other times so so on that set-up. This time its sounded good.

 

An upgraded Oppo - it has had significant work on the output stage and the clock has been replaced with a Terra-Firma clock. To me it was the DAC of the GTG - if anyone wants to take a chance on one Southport Hi Fi in Australia will be distributing them at about Australian $3.6k. Got one myself - its that good - it easily accounts for the NAD M51 I use for HT duties - then again twice the price - but does a lot more.

 

A new DAC - The Klein DAC - from Clay Geisner who makes the Konverter and old PDX (not made any more) - he has however made significant improvements since the GTG. It will be sold by Southport Hi Fi for about $1K. I have an earlier version that I will get Clay to upgrade to the latest iteration and that will be in the next GTG.

 

You can read what others thought - here are mine:

 

Initially we heard the Direct Stream vs Joe's modified Oppo via the Prima Luna amps. It was close - but I gave the edge to the Direct Stream - its detail was better - but the Oppo had a sweet sound - both were obviously serious DAC's - but considering the price difference the Oppo would have been my choice especially considering how much more it can do such as playing movies and connecting to Foxtel via its HDMI input - in fact it was and I ordered one off Joe to replace my NAD which is now up for sale.

 

Then we introduced the Audion KT120 amp into the system - holey carp batman - instantly better - lovely sweet sound - Clay's eyes went wide - Clay just loves that sort of stuff. This was the best I had heard the Direct Stream - really nice now. Joe's Oppo of course benefited - but I thought the Direct Stream benefited more. It was not close for me now - the DS had pulled ahead. Was it the price difference ahead - hard to say - for me - still no - but now no longer clear cut. Detail on the DS was simply - well - mesmerising.

 

Next up was Clays DAC's. He had two new DAC's - one based on the a Burr Brown PCM 1794 and another on an AKM chip. Both were very good - and the AKM sounded quite close to Oppo (of course it wont do all the Oppo will) but at only about $1k. For me it wasn't as sweet as the Oppo or with the detail of the DS.

 

Then the polarising DAC - my Killer that I love. Its just so engaging, musical with superb Prat, for me anyway. Everyone liked it - even Mike who has a bit of a love-hate relationship with the Killer - loving what it does on some material - not so much on others. As one guy said with your eyes closed its almost holographic in that you can feel the space between the singer and instruments. The thing is its the musical analytical thing - and the various shades in between. Quite a few said they really wanted both a Killer and the DS. Personally I would get the Oppo and the Killer which, both together, is about the same price as the DS - in fact that's what I did.

 

My ordering was:

 

Killer and DS - tie - but that's purely sitting down and putting personal preference aside and judging it objectively. But when listening to the Killer my foot immediately taps and a smile comes to my face - the other DAC's didn't do that, so obviously its my preference - but I am trying to be objective. Was it as accurate as the DS - no - not dripping in ooey gooey honey - it's more subtle than that - Mike describes it as a slight roundedness in the lower midrange - and understands the appeal - but really - who gives a shite - you don't listen to measurements. Its like the Audion - it's probably not as accurate as the Prima - but it's much sweeter and far more beautiful - everyone much preferred it.

 

A bit behind was the Oppo. For me this was the stand-out of the GTG. It does so much for so little - a no brainer for two channel home theatre and has displaced the NAD M51 for that - like I said I am getting one. BTW it sounded nothing like a Saber chip - it had the Saber detail - but wasn't overt or distracting - quite sweet actually.

 

Again a bit behind Clay's DAC - but that value - amazing - and the balls Clay has in comparing it to stuff that's way more expensive. I had a slight preference for the AKM version - but there is hardly anything in it. Interesting how it fares in the next GTG. But Clay had a long chat to Joe and incorporated some of hid ideas and it evidently is better again. I have an earlier version (even earlier than what appeared at the GTG) and Clay did say he thinks he can upgrade it to the new level. That will be at the next GTG.

 

Anyway they are my thoughts. There is another GTG planned with pretty much the same DAC's - and my Playback Designs MPD 3. It will be on some horn speakers at an acquaintances place up the road:

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/60562-well-you-have-to-start-somewhere/page-3

 

Of course will post about it.

 

Thanks

Bill

[Kelly]

Cool report Bill! Thanks.

[Emcee]

Can anybody who has owned/auditioned both original MiniMax and Supreme objectively comment on the bass?

 

Depth, definition, agility, etc.

 

I love my original MM but find the bass lacks a bit of snap. The Supreme is very tempting.

[Emcee]

The other great thing is that, as well as sounding superb OOTB, you can easily tweak/mod the Minimax's by rolling tubes and/or op amps.

 

They are also ripe for more serious modding, although how much difference changing out the caps, diodes and the clock will make is moot, and could be subject to the law of diminishing returns. I will report back on that one ... ;-)

 

The most significant mod on my original MiniMax besides the obvious (opamps, tube) was replacing the regulators with Bellesons and tube output caps with Auricap XO.

[prot]

Will be burning-in a EE Supreme dac with Sparko Labs opamps in it this weekend.

 

Those opamps sound interesting, but they are not exactly cheap.

Any idea if they work fine in the Minimax Plus too?

And by any chance did you compare them to the Dexas/Bursons and could comment on the diffs?

 

 

P.S.

I did read the reviews on the Sparko webpage, just looking for more input. And that Supreme sounds quite itchy