Help me choose a new DAC

[prot]

...

The Ee dac plus is ok via usb, just a lot clearer via bnc from an audiophilleo 2 with teddyusb power supply.

...

 

Just what I wanted to hear. Guess I'm gonna order that gustard u12 and see what the fuss is about.

 

Also thx for the tube socket tip, changing the minimax tubes is indeed pretty cumbersome. Any other tips from your big 'audio stable' ?

[prot]

Ditto. I'm getting very close to possibly 'pulling the trigger' myself. Bill O told me that Doug Schroeder, over at dagogo has both EE current DAC models for review. In questioning him about USB implementation, Bill did reveal that it didn't go so well with the mmax plus...but that the engineers had supposedly addressed the issue(s) with the Supreme and Junior (critical, since that's the only input option).

 

The mm plus uses a m2tech usb interface and IIUC the supreme has an xmos one ... hopefully that sounds better

 

 

@morningstaraudio

am I right about that xmos chip in the supreme or my memory is cloudy?

also, are there plans for dsd256 via sw update or that's a hw limitation?

[User24]

It's called a 9 pin socket saver. Seat it once properly, and when swapping tubes hold down in place with 1 finger while wiggling the tube.

 

 

[clipper]

It's called a 9 pin socket saver. Seat it once properly, and when swapping tubes hold down in place with 1 finger while wiggling the tube.

 

 

 

 

The USB implementation on the Supreme and Junior is XMOS xCORE and is much improved compared to the Minimax Plus and original Minimax.

 

Also, the tube socket on the Supreme seems more solid and is definitely easier to access (versus the Plus or original).

[prot]

It's called a 9 pin socket saver. Seat it once properly, and when swapping tubes hold down in place with 1 finger while wiggling the tube

Simple & efficient. The bigger e80cc tubes (my favorites) are relatively easy to handle but the standard 12au7-s are a real pain.

Btw, what are your favourite tubes & opamps?

[User24]

It's crazy out there, and tricky to know when to follow the crowd and when to go your own way. My personal biases are toward a whole, organic sound. Detail is ok as long as I can still enjoy the music. My music is mostly pop, some good quality and some not the best. Chvrches, Haim, Spoon, Camera Obscura, She & Him, East Hundred, Tennis, Von Iva, Nikki and the Dove.

 

The Sparkos opamps are probably the next big thing, of course at the time of the Plus the DEXA was the default option for most. My personal bias is toward dacs with no opamps whenever possible.

 

If the Supreme is an actual refinement of the Plus, it could potentially consolidate 3 DACs in my system to save shelf space.

 

I always limit myself to amps that use only current production tubes, so as not to limit myself in the future. If I need a clean detailed sound with no shortcomings, it is the Genalex Gold Lion new production. If I need to darken and thicken the sound, it is the Electro Harmonix new production. I will never be the guy willing to pay for that 1 NOS tube that everyone is after, I see no future in that.

[DanSmedra]

Maybe someone here can help with a reasonable response.

 

Eastern Electric writes, "With careful engineering, selection of the best electrical parts available and careful assembly by hand..."

 

Wouldn't this include testing several different tubes and opamps to find the "best" (statistical mean) in performance?

 

Yet, owners of EE equipment rave about how this or that tube or opamp substantially improve their unit. I understand the need for guys to tweak and personalize their toys, but is the performance spectrum that wide on a EE DAC that these modifications make such substantial differences? Or are the mods simply a case of guys needing excuses to spend more money?

[prot]

Maybe someone here can help with a reasonable response.

 

Eastern Electric writes, "With careful engineering, selection of the best electrical parts available and careful assembly by hand..."

 

Wouldn't this include testing several different tubes and opamps to find the "best" (statistical mean) in performance?

 

Yet, owners of EE equipment rave about how this or that tube or opamp substantially improve their unit. I understand the need for guys to tweak and personalize their toys, but is the performance spectrum that wide on a EE DAC that these modifications make such substantial differences? Or are the mods simply a case of guys needing excuses to spend more money?

 

I'd say the standard minimax dac is a very good compromise.

If they add those raved dexa&co opamps the cost will increase $200 and put it in another category.

About tubes, the best ones (according to the internets) are of the NOS variety and you cant sell&support a new device incorporating those.

However, selling a 'pro' version for e.g. $1500 may not be the worst idea.

 

Also, dont read so much into those night&day diff reports ... tried lots of opamps & tubes, the diffs are quite subtle and I'm not sure I can DBT/ABX most of them.

 

Personally I like the fact that mm sells a base device for min price...and bought it precisely for the hw tinkering capabilities. And yes, there's a lot of that "guys needing excuses to spend money" too

[prot]

It's crazy out there, and tricky to know when to follow the crowd and when to go your own way. My personal biases are toward a whole, organic sound. Detail is ok as long as I can still enjoy the music. My music is mostly pop, some good quality and some not the best. Chvrches, Haim, Spoon, Camera Obscura, She & Him, East Hundred, Tennis, Von Iva, Nikki and the Dove.

 

The Sparkos opamps are probably the next big thing, of course at the time of the Plus the DEXA was the default option for most. My personal bias is toward dacs with no opamps whenever possible.

 

If the Supreme is an actual refinement of the Plus, it could potentially consolidate 3 DACs in my system to save shelf space.

 

I always limit myself to amps that use only current production tubes, so as not to limit myself in the future. If I need a clean detailed sound with no shortcomings, it is the Genalex Gold Lion new production. If I need to darken and thicken the sound, it is the Electro Harmonix new production. I will never be the guy willing to pay for that 1 NOS tube that everyone is after, I see no future in that.

 

I'm more into jazz, chillout, ambient, classic ... this track has pretty much everything I like

 

Tried e.harmonix & genalex ... better than the default but they just didnt "speak to me" ... you can try the tungsram e80cc ... apparently there are still big quantities available and you can find it for ~€20 on ebay europe .. not very 'tubey' but very detailed & clear

[nick77]

Was considering buying the Yulong DA8 cause ive read it has a warmer organic sound for ESS chip. But I am liking what I read about the new Supreme also. Anyone ever compare or have any input between the two?? Thanks...

[Emcee]

Was considering buying the Yulong DA8 cause ive read it has a warmer organic sound for ESS chip. But I am liking what I read about the new Supreme also. Anyone ever compare or have any input between the two?? Thanks...

 

 

 

I picked up the DA8 in a group purchase, paid about $1000 and sold it off for a bit more a week later.

 

It's slightly more detailed, has deeper bass than the original MiniMax (which I own) and has a headphone output however I found the overall presentation thinner and generally less pleasing to my ears (less musical).

 

If I had to chose between the DA8 and the Supreme for similar cash I'd jump for the Supreme.

[mac_and_dac]

 

Eastern Electric writes, "With careful engineering, selection of the best electrical parts available and careful assembly by hand..."

 

Wouldn't this include testing several different tubes and opamps to find the "best" (statistical mean) in performance?

 

Yet, owners of EE equipment rave about how this or that tube or opamp substantially improve their unit.

 

What Prot said.

 

If you open up a MM+, you will see the op amps are IC's, which I imagine can be purchased for the price of a beer or less. The aftermarket op amps are much more involved, they are like mini circuit boards themselves.

 

See:

http://dagogo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/EE-MinimaxPlus-discreteOP-2.jpg

 

Needless to say, be wary of people's hyperbole around differences. It's just how some people are when they try to explain stuff.

 

The differences with the op amps to my ears are subtle but quite noticeable over time. The op amp upgrade cost me around $300 and I would say that it is just about worth it. I certainly wouldn't call it night and day vs the IC's, but I'm glad I did it.

 

My Supreme will get more mods than the op amps, so it should interesting to see how it compares to my modded MM+.

[MikeJazz]

Ha! That statement was kinda funny to me. I actually started the thread and ended up with a new DAC a few months ago. Scored an Ayre QB-9DSD with which I am very happy. It's too bad that it is such an expensive hobby as there are a whole lot of things I'd love to try, even if just for a while.

Congrats, I consider de Ayre an excellent DAC...by the way, I am wondering if you tried the Ayre With the gallos, and by the way, I am still crazy about those reference 3.5s!

[Kelly]

Congrats, I consider de Ayre an excellent DAC...by the way, I am wondering if you tried the Ayre With the gallos, and by the way, I am still crazy about those reference 3.5s!

 

Hi, unfortunately I have not used the Ayre in the big rig as I have no preamp there. I use the NAD M51 direct to the amps. Where I live now, unfortunately, the acoustics are very poor and that is why I moved to a headphone rig for my main listening. I am about to move again in a few months so I may be mixing things up soon. I compared the Ayre to the NAD for a few weeks in my headphone rig. I do think the Ayre is a better unit, but the NAD did not embarrass itself. I would like to try the Ayre in the main system though because the Gallos main strength is their imaging and that is also one of the Ayre's biggest strengths. I would just need a preamp.

[Hanuman22]

For what it's worth I've been playing DSD thru an upgraded PWDII to DSD Dac for about a week and the upgrade to DSD is truly an upgrade. The DSD is highly detailed with expanded sounstaging, direct into a Burson Soloist. Thru old B&W Matrix IIIs truly a 50% upgrade with DSD and with a large CD library, the PSA Transport option has put so many CDs played thru the DSD into master sounding category I don't see how one can ignore DSD. For legacy system owners, it takes you to the next level for sure.

[prot]

I'll hopefully get some sparkolabs opamps to test with the mm+ next month ... also having fun with silver cables during the next weeks ... something like http://m.ebay.com/itm/121526379769 (pure silver in teflon, use google translate)

 

Btw, anyone who tried Usb cables with the mm? Mine seems quite immune to any 'audiophile cable'. What about Rca output cables, power cables, fuses, etc... ?

[Jimmypowder]

Whoever on here suggested the Ifi Micro Idsd knows their stuff.

 

I just bought one out of the blue ,fiddled with it for a short while(wanted to charge it fully)

and all I can say is it is the best budget audiophile dac I have ever listened to.

 

500 bucks is a steal for this baby.

[hifi25nl]

..however I would advise that it sounds a little bright (also as DAC only).

[adidino]

Hey guys anyone using the EE DSD Supreme with Audirvana Plus? (not 2.0)

 

First I notice Audirvana detects the dac as xCore USB 2.0 (instead of EEAudio like the tube plus).

 

Native DSD capabilities set to auto detect. However, it shows available playback formats up to PCM 384k are active, DSD64 and DSD128 are greyed out.

 

I feel I'm simply missing something in the settings.

 

Tony

[PeteG]

I'm using the Supreme with jriver, it also detects the dac as xcore. I have no issues with playing DSD64 or DSD128 so it could be in your settings.

[Emcee]

How are you guys liking your MM Supremes? Any shortcomings? What have you compared it to?

Thanks

[adidino]

Got it going. Doesn't seem to like auto-detect in Native DSD options in Audirvana. Had to select "DSD over PCM 1.0" in the pulldown menu.

 

So far so good.

[Emcee]

I'd say the standard minimax dac is a very good compromise.

If they add those raved dexa&co opamps the cost will increase $200 and put it in another category.

About tubes, the best ones (according to the internets) are of the NOS variety and you cant sell&support a new device incorporating those.

However, selling a 'pro' version for e.g. $1500 may not be the worst idea.

 

Also, dont read so much into those night&day diff reports ... tried lots of opamps & tubes, the diffs are quite subtle and I'm not sure I can DBT/ABX most of them.

 

Personally I like the fact that mm sells a base device for min price...and bought it precisely for the hw tinkering capabilities. And yes, there's a lot of that "guys needing excuses to spend money" too

 

It's rarely night & day with opamps and tubes. However you'll know when you hit the right balance when you find yourself always coming back to a certain tube or opamp.

 

With the original MM it took me quite a while and cost me a more than sensible amount of cash before realizing that I had found the right combination very early on in my experiments.

 

I could have pushed on further listening to every Tom, Dick and Harry's FOTM but eventually I came to my senses and began selling off the also rans.

 

I won't make that mistake should I decide to give the Supreme a try.