direction please

[english210]

Yes, speakers make perhaps the biggest difference, and you're very well set up there. Any other component can be upgraded, and it can have an effect on SQ. The issue, as I see it, is putting together a system, over time, that you're happy with while still being able to enjoy music during the process. There's a tendency, while in the throes of this, to spend one's time listening to the hardware rather than to the music.

 

 

 

Absolutely. I think the more specific suggestions others have offered are very good. If I were in your shoes I'd certainly get an i7-based mini with 8GB RAM (which is easy to install yourself if you want to save a little money) and an internal solid-state drive (which is not impossible to install yourself but considerably less easy, IMO). Again, I'm not ruling out other options, but I don't think you'll go far wrong or regret having gone with this as a starting point. If you go down this road, Audirvana and JRiver (and others) offer free trials, so you can have a basis for choosing the playback software you prefer.

 

--David

My goal is not to dive in with the 'bees knees' of computer audio, but to get a workable, reliable, easy to use setup that will be the platform for any necessary further growth. The suggestions I've received have, in the main, been very helpful, and I feel comfortable now -at least until I actually install everything - that the Mac mini is the way to go. I haven't had any PC users chime in, but I'm ok with Mac. What is the reasoning behind the upgrade to a solid state drive? Also, it was strongly urged to have a back up drive, so are there any specific needs there? Is that something that can wait til I'm up and running with the main pieces?

 

And what is the consensus of connection? Is HDMI or USB the right way to go, or it 6 of one, half a dozen of the other for the connection between the Mac and the AVR and/or Oppo?

[english210]

Chris

The proposed solutions leave the OPs Oppo 103 right out of the equation. I doubt that the OP would wish to have it made redundant.

What will he then use for a DAC with similar high performance ?

Alex

The Oppo will still be used as my BlueRay player, so it won't be redundant. I simply wanted to include my current equipment for you to know what I have to work with. If the Oppo DAC's are better than (or easier to integrate with the computer) my avr's then great, but I don't know. I have no other ax to grind with that.

[ecwl]

english210, I see lots of great suggestions and options people have already offered on this thread so far. But I'm a bit unclear on how your Yamaha is being used. You already said the Oppo is currently connected via HDMI to the Yamaha which means of course you are currently using the Yamaha's DACs. But what other sources do you feed into the Yamaha? Do you use the Yamaha's room correction feature YPAO?

 

I think a lot of us are trying to help you solve the technical issues related to computer audio. But if you have to hook everything up to the Yamaha and you have to use the YPAO room/speaker correction system, you are essentially reliant on the Yamaha DAC so there is probably a limit as to how much better you can get the sound because the Yamaha becomes your bottleneck. If you don't use the YPAO but still needs everything hooked up to the Yamaha, then you can get the most expensive DAC in the world but the performance will then depend on the quality of Yamaha as a pre-amplifier as the bottleneck for your system. Yes, some people build very complicated systems with their computer doing the room correction, dedicated USB DAC, dedicated preamp with home theatre bypass and then incorporate the Yamaha into the system. But that's a much more involved setup. Having a sense of how you're currently setting up and using your system would probably be helpful. Actually, I might have missed whether you have a subwoofer and whether you incorporate the subwoofer when listening to music with the Aerial 7T' too.

 

I thought those are things worth thinking about for all of us before recommending a specific setup for you.

[baddog]

SSD drives consume less power and tend to have longer life spans than typical magnetic Hard drives. So in short better reliability. Some believe they sound better or have a less impactful effect on the sound.

 

As to a backup drive, regardless of whether you have a NAS, a solid state drive or a hard drive you always want to backup your data. One day your system will crash or die and you will be glad you have the backup. For that task easy enough to purchase an external hard drive and backup the computer via USB.

 

There are those who believe a USB connection superior to HDMI for audio. I don't have the option and use USB which works great. As someone else recommended earlier, easy enough to try HDMI and see what you think.

 

Remind us which model receiver you have?

[orgel]

What is the reasoning behind the upgrade to a solid state drive?

 

Others may have additional reasons, but for me it's mostly for enhanced performance — the Mac will start up more quickly, applications will launch more quickly, in general things will feel more responsive. A solid-state drive is also acoustically quieter than a spinning drive, but personally I'm not certain this equates to better overall sound quality.

 

Also, it was strongly urged to have a back up drive, so are there any specific needs there? Is that something that can wait til I'm up and running with the main pieces?

 

I would have the backup drive up and running sooner rather than later, preferably on Day 1. (Once you've had a drive fail with no backup, you'll understand why I keep harping on this, but it might be nice to avoid that experience entirely.) The capacity of the backup should be at least that of the internal drive, although you don't need a super-high-performance model. At work and home, I use Western Digital Red drives for backup, and I just put the bare drives in those drive docks I linked to previously (though it doesn't need to be that brand of dock). The WD Red drives are quiet and, in my experience, reliable.

 

And what is the consensus of connection? Is HDMI or USB the right way to go, or it 6 of one, half a dozen of the other for the connection between the Mac and the AVR and/or Oppo?

 

I don't think the Oppo 103 is going to work as a DAC for the Mac mini. I think you'll need to connect the Mac to your AVR via either HDMI or TOSlink and use the AVR's internal DAC. You'll still be able to leave the Oppo connected to the AVR as it probably is now and use the Oppo to play optical discs and also try playback from USB sticks (or other USB storage), as Sandy suggested.

 

I also wanted to mention that I don't think you'll be able to use the Oppo to rip CD's — you'll need to get an external optical drive. Apple makes one, but you'll likely get more bang for the buck with a third-party drive. Other World Computing is a good source for these: Other World Computing (OWC) - Performance Upgrades For Your Mac. It's also a good source for third-party RAM.

 

I'll be off the grid until next Tuesday. Good luck in the meantime. I look forward to catching up.

 

--David

[baddog]

Others may have additional reasons, but for me it's mostly for enhanced performance — the Mac will start up more quickly, applications will launch more quickly, in general things will feel more responsive. A solid-state drive is also acoustically quieter than a spinning drive, but personally I'm not certain this equates to better overall sound quality.

 

 

 

--David

 

Damn, yes yes, exactly point on with the SSD. I love mine in my Macs, especially the ones I use day to day for work etc. And the Mac Mini I used as a music server booted off of one.

[english210]

english210, I see lots of great suggestions and options people have already offered on this thread so far. But I'm a bit unclear on how your Yamaha is being used. You already said the Oppo is currently connected via HDMI to the Yamaha which means of course you are currently using the Yamaha's DACs. But what other sources do you feed into the Yamaha? Do you use the Yamaha's room correction feature YPAO?

 

I think a lot of us are trying to help you solve the technical issues related to computer audio. But if you have to hook everything up to the Yamaha and you have to use the YPAO room/speaker correction system, you are essentially reliant on the Yamaha DAC so there is probably a limit as to how much better you can get the sound because the Yamaha becomes your bottleneck. If you don't use the YPAO but still needs everything hooked up to the Yamaha, then you can get the most expensive DAC in the world but the performance will then depend on the quality of Yamaha as a pre-amplifier as the bottleneck for your system. Yes, some people build very complicated systems with their computer doing the room correction, dedicated USB DAC, dedicated preamp with home theatre bypass and then incorporate the Yamaha into the system. But that's a much more involved setup. Having a sense of how you're currently setting up and using your system would probably be helpful. Actually, I might have missed whether you have a subwoofer and whether you incorporate the subwoofer when listening to music with the Aerial 7T' too.

 

I thought those are things worth thinking about for all of us before recommending a specific setup for you.

It's an RXA3010. The Oppo and Directv receiver are the only sources. I then use analog outs to an Odyssey Stratos amp powering the Aerials, set to 2-channel Direct for music. There is a Hsu ULS15 sub that is set for use only on movies. The Yamaha also powers center/surround speakers. I have the YPAO in the receiver, but don't trust it, it consistently tells me speakers are out of phase when they're not. Currently the Oppo is my 'good' source, playing discs, hooked up with HDMI.

Is that what you needed?

[kumakuma]

I would have the backup drive up and running sooner rather than later, preferably on Day 1. (Once you've had a drive fail with no backup, you'll understand why I keep harping on this, but it might be nice to avoid that experience entirely.) The capacity of the backup should be at least that of the internal drive, although you don't need a super-high-performance model. At work and home, I use Western Digital Red drives for backup, and I just put the bare drives in those drive docks I linked to previously (though it doesn't need to be that brand of dock). The WD Red drives are quiet and, in my experience, reliable.

 

+1

 

I also use WD Red drives for my backups and am very happy with them.

 

I recommend the following programs for backing up:

 

https://www.bombich.com

SuperDuper!

 

Both allow you to create bootable clones of your system drives and have saved my butt on a number of occasions.

[ecwl]

Yes. The information is very helpful. Not sure why YPAO thinks your speakers are out of phase but I've found it to be accurate in systems I've tried. That said, some speakers, especially center/surround speakers are built specifically to be out of phase. But if you have some other test CD to verify that the speakers are in phase, I guess they must be. But that is neither here nor there and not related to computer audio.

 

Just to clarify, english210, you're actually very happy with the sound you're getting with the Oppo->HDMI->YPAO->amp->Aerials 7T, right? So as you indicated at the original post, you're just looking for an easy to setup, easy to use computer audio system so that you can burn all your CDs, buy new HD music, stream music online (Pandora/Qobuz/etc), right? Will need to think about this some more. And I don't think you ever mentioned what your "old laptop" was. PC? Mac? Windows version?

[ericuco]

To chime in on the backup HDD, I agree with everyone's comments and would only add to consider storing the backup in an offsite location (e.g. work) if possible. The reason is to avoid theft or heaven forbid disaster (e.g. fire) at your house. I store my backup at the bank which may be overkill but I have a safety deposit box for other reasons.

[sandyk]

I then use analog outs to an Odyssey Stratos amp powering the Aerials, set to 2-channel Direct for music.

 

Have you tried the Oppo directly into the Odyssey Stratos amplifier ? Yes, I realise that you need the AVR for use as an input selector. The 103 doesn't have Digital Volume control , but it does have analogue volume control.

[mayhem13]

. I have the YPAO in the receiver, but don't trust it, it consistently tells me speakers are out of phase when they're not.

 

Don't be so sure. There's countless threads on theater forums where a mfgr has mistakenly wired one of the drivers incorrectly or your speakers are spaced in such a way that a strong reflection is reaching the mic at the same time as a primary signal. Mics are much more sensitive to phase anomolies than our ears.

[ecwl]

I was thinking of a different approach for english210. If ease of use is a primary goal, and Yamaha receiver is going to the limiting factor to sound quality for a while, I would consider something like SoTM sMS-1000D media server. Or one can theoretically go cheaper with the Small Green Computer's Vortexbox builds as long as they have S/PDIF output. So all one has to do is load the CDs into the Vortexbox and it'll be automatically ripped. There's usually software for streaming. And new music can be purchased and then transferred to the box. The iPhone or android tablet can be used to select the music.

 

Normally, I find a Linux/Vortexbox setup to be more complicated if I want to do a lot of tweaking. But if the purpose is to just get all the CDs ripped onto a single hard drive for easy navigation and to download new HD music files, a pre-built Vortexbox may actually be simpler and easier. And in english210's case, you would just connect the Vortexbox via coaxial S/PDIF to the Yamaha and you're done.

[english210]

Have you tried the Oppo directly into the Odyssey Stratos amplifier ? Yes, I realise that you need the AVR for use as an input selector. The 103 doesn't have Digital Volume control , but it does have analogue volume control.

 

I haven't tried that, no. Most use is TV/movies, and I have a day or two a week when I can play on my own.... But I wouldn't be opposed to that if eliminating the Yamaha was a boost to sound quality when I'm in music-mode....

[english210]

I was thinking of a different approach for english210. If ease of use is a primary goal, and Yamaha receiver is going to the limiting factor to sound quality for a while, I would consider something like SoTM sMS-1000D media server. Or one can theoretically go cheaper with the Small Green Computer's Vortexbox builds as long as they have S/PDIF output. So all one has to do is load the CDs into the Vortexbox and it'll be automatically ripped. There's usually software for streaming. And new music can be purchased and then transferred to the box. The iPhone or android tablet can be used to select the music.

 

Normally, I find a Linux/Vortexbox setup to be more complicated if I want to do a lot of tweaking. But if the purpose is to just get all the CDs ripped onto a single hard drive for easy navigation and to download new HD music files, a pre-built Vortexbox may actually be simpler and easier. And in english210's case, you would just connect the Vortexbox via coaxial S/PDIF to the Yamaha and you're done.

 

I'm back into my work week, but I'm game to look into that. Any other input on pluses/minuses of that without anyone getting mad

[capaill]

english210, another possible simple solution is the following, but still allows you to upgrade easily and cheaply....

 

you could use a networked streamer (eg Sonos), get a small 2 bay NAS from say, synology, add 2x 2Tb drives (or now even 4Tb's +), add a sonos for playback into either a DAC or the Yamaha, and then use whatever computer you want to rip and manage your library. (laptop, mac mini, desktop etc). You could keep it even simpler and use a computer instead of the NAS. Either way, the Sonos just works, has a great app and has spotify, pandora, radio etc stations all readily available in their ipad/iphone/android app. The app now returns search results from you local drives and online services, all from a single interface. If you use a computer you will have 2 interfaces, one for local play back (ie Jriver/A+/itunes) and another for streaming services.

 

You can mirror the drives in the NAS for redundancy (not backup), in case one drive fails. IF you need more space, you can either add bigger drives in the future, or combine the drives with Synologys 'raid' software. This basically creates one drive out of both drives, so the 2x2TB, becomes almost 4T single drive as seen by any computer or sonos on the network.You can then setup a USB drive to the NAS as a backup, and sync your files to it. Keep it onsite or remove offsite for the safest backup practice. You can even rotate 2 offsite USB drives.There's loads more streamers, some also do ho rez, but Sonos's app is one of the best. And it allows you do do multi room in the future if you so wish. Just add a sonos to another room with powered speakers or a receiver.

 

Bluesound is an alternative to sonos, which also does mutiroom, and Hi rez. And many other streamers out there that this forum would be able to talk much more informed about than me.

 

synology DS213j $199

WD red drive 2Tb drives $99

sonos connect $350 (no amp)

any laptop/deskpop for ripping , management

[boatheelmusic]

Please don't overlook spending time and effort on speaker placement!

[maximum kahuna]

It's an RXA3010. The Oppo and Directv receiver are the only sources. I then use analog outs to an Odyssey Stratos amp powering the Aerials, set to 2-channel Direct for music. There is a Hsu ULS15 sub that is set for use only on movies. The Yamaha also powers center/surround speakers. I have the YPAO in the receiver, but don't trust it, it consistently tells me speakers are out of phase when they're not. Currently the Oppo is my 'good' source, playing discs, hooked up with HDMI.

Is that what you needed?

 

With HDMI to the Yamaha you're using the Yammy's dac. Try hooking up the Oppo via the analog outs to the Yamaha and run it in Pure Direct. See if you like the dac in the Oppo better than the dac in the Yamaha. I have a Yamaha RX-V3900 and the dac isn't too bad. It sounds better to me than the dac in my SB Touch and my Panasonic cd/bluray player but not as good as my outboard dac (Schiit Bifrost.) I'd advise figuring out which configuration sounds best to you and then worry about your computer source. Rip some files to your exisitng computer or use a flash drive. Get started, figure out how to maximize your sound, then see how changing the source affects the sound.

[english210]

Please don't overlook spending time and effort on speaker placement!

Um...yeah, covered that with David earlier ...

[english210]

english210, another possible simple solution is the following, but still allows you to upgrade easily and cheaply....

 

you could use a networked streamer (eg Sonos), get a small 2 bay NAS from say, synology, add 2x 2Tb drives (or now even 4Tb's +), add a sonos for playback into either a DAC or the Yamaha, and then use whatever computer you want to rip and manage your library. (laptop, mac mini, desktop etc). You could keep it even simpler and use a computer instead of the NAS. Either way, the Sonos just works, has a great app and has spotify, pandora, radio etc stations all readily available in their ipad/iphone/android app. The app now returns search results from you local drives and online services, all from a single interface. If you use a computer you will have 2 interfaces, one for local play back (ie Jriver/A+/itunes) and another for streaming services.

 

You can mirror the drives in the NAS for redundancy (not backup), in case one drive fails. IF you need more space, you can either add bigger drives in the future, or combine the drives with Synologys 'raid' software. This basically creates one drive out of both drives, so the 2x2TB, becomes almost 4T single drive as seen by any computer or sonos on the network.You can then setup a USB drive to the NAS as a backup, and sync your files to it. Keep it onsite or remove offsite for the safest backup practice. You can even rotate 2 offsite USB drives.There's loads more streamers, some also do ho rez, but Sonos's app is one of the best. And it allows you do do multi room in the future if you so wish. Just add a sonos to another room with powered speakers or a receiver.

 

Bluesound is an alternative to sonos, which also does mutiroom, and Hi rez. And many other streamers out there that this forum would be able to talk much more informed about than me.

 

synology DS213j $199

WD red drive 2Tb drives $99

sonos connect $350 (no amp)

any laptop/deskpop for ripping , management

I'm a little concerned about my 4-5 year old laptop being fast enough to be good for ripping/management. I guess the Sonos is for the streaming services, and can be added to whatever I use for 'my' music (ripped CDs, downloads, etc)? So the Synology in your suggestion is for the storage, tied to my current laptop for a cheaper 'entry ticket'?

[english210]

With HDMI to the Yamaha you're using the Yammy's dac. Try hooking up the Oppo via the analog outs to the Yamaha and run it in Pure Direct. See if you like the dac in the Oppo better than the dac in the Yamaha. I have a Yamaha RX-V3900 and the dac isn't too bad. It sounds better to me than the dac in my SB Touch and my Panasonic cd/bluray player but not as good as my outboard dac (Schiit Bifrost.) I'd advise figuring out which configuration sounds best to you and then worry about your computer source. Rip some files to your exisitng computer or use a flash drive. Get started, figure out how to maximize your sound, then see how changing the source affects the sound.

Don't suppose you know if the HDMI and analog outs can be hooked up simultaneously and then switched A-B in the Yamaha for comparisons? That configuration is purely to compare Oppo's DAC to the Yamaha's?

[english210]

I was thinking of a different approach for english210. If ease of use is a primary goal, and Yamaha receiver is going to the limiting factor to sound quality for a while, I would consider something like SoTM sMS-1000D media server. Or one can theoretically go cheaper with the Small Green Computer's Vortexbox builds as long as they have S/PDIF output. So all one has to do is load the CDs into the Vortexbox and it'll be automatically ripped. There's usually software for streaming. And new music can be purchased and then transferred to the box. The iPhone or android tablet can be used to select the music.

 

Normally, I find a Linux/Vortexbox setup to be more complicated if I want to do a lot of tweaking. But if the purpose is to just get all the CDs ripped onto a single hard drive for easy navigation and to download new HD music files, a pre-built Vortexbox may actually be simpler and easier. And in english210's case, you would just connect the Vortexbox via coaxial S/PDIF to the Yamaha and you're done.

That does look interesting...one box, and the software offers iPhone/Tablet remote access, and streaming support...I'll do some more research...

[maximum kahuna]

Don't suppose you know if the HDMI and analog outs can be hooked up simultaneously and then switched A-B in the Yamaha for comparisons? That configuration is purely to compare Oppo's DAC to the Yamaha's?

 

I can do that on my Panasonic, not sure about the Oppo, but I'd bet you can. That's a fairly common configuration to use the analogs for music and HDMI for movies.

[capaill]

I'm a little concerned about my 4-5 year old laptop being fast enough to be good for ripping/management. I guess the Sonos is for the streaming services, and can be added to whatever I use for 'my' music (ripped CDs, downloads, etc)? So the Synology in your suggestion is for the storage, tied to my current laptop for a cheaper 'entry ticket'?

 

I'm a little concerned about my 4-5 year old laptop being fast enough to be good for ripping/management. I guess the Sonos is for the streaming services, and can be added to whatever I use for 'my' music (ripped CDs, downloads, etc)? So the Synology in your suggestion is for the storage, tied to my current laptop for a cheaper 'entry ticket'?

 

somewhat correct. sonos is a playback device, just like a computer. It plays both ripped music, downloaded music, and music from streaming services, and all are searchable through their ipad/android app, and from a single app. If you want to play ripped music and music from streaming services from a computer, then you will need 2 apps on your ipad etc. one for local music, and one for spotify, for example.

 

However, sonos won't play Hi Rez, "just" CD quality. You can also use the optical out from the sonos into an external DAC to improve the sound. My thoughts are that using the same device for playback and ripping/management is going to be messy, just depends on your physical layout but I like the set it and forget it moto and dedicated devices.

 

5yr old laptop is fine if its even using a core2 duo, or even a P4, it will just take a bit longer on the ripping. Management part of it should also be fine.

 

 

Synology is for storage. Your laptop will 'see' the files on the synology over you home network, and so you can rip locally on the laptop, fix up any meta data, then transfer the files to the synology. Done. Then just point your play back software to the music folder on the synology. Also, best to keep the network wired, rather than via wifi, but not necessary. You just might get some drop outs via wifi, depending on your house and router.

 

You can easily replace the sonos later with what ever 'better' playback device you choose if you want to play Hi Rez. For Cd , the sonos is more than adequate. This can be either a mac mini with or without a quiet and quick SSD drive, or a caps system, or even a better streamer that will play Hi rez. However beware, one of the big advantages of sonos is a very very good app. Other streamers have possibly better sound quality, but their apps are mostly just Ok. It also allows you to play the same song, in sync around you house.

[baddog]

English210 - Did you find out from OPPO whether the 103 can be used via the USB inputs with a computer?