Has anyone had a chance to listen to or read much about the Rockna Wavedream DAC?

[matthias]

2 hours ago, VerdantAudio said:

That being said, we were just discussing this and he would also tell you that upgrading your server does far more than upgrading your DAC. 

 

This makes sense, Source First rules! 🙂

 

Matt

[AudioBang]

From my experience, I think VerdantAudio is spot on.

My first Server as a source was an Antipodes DX 2. From memory and shooting from the hip, I'd say it was a 30% jump in SQ over my Krell 505 transport. Upgrading to the DX 3 and switching from SqueezeBox to Roon was another 25% improvement over the DX 2. 

I was getting outstanding imaging on certain source material but un-listenable glare and blur on certain instruments...

Anna Netrebko's powerful vibrato... I'm not an opera listener but once I hone in on certain source material/frequencies that bring my system to its knees, I keep referencing back to it for neutrality check after system tweaks. I then tried a discontinued Auralic Renderer and again, another 20% SQ jump. I then upgraded to the Antipodes CX/EX and SQ jumped another 50% over the DX 3 - but the halo of glare around Anna Netrebko's vibrato remained just as un-listenable. The common denominator was USB using WireWorld Platinum Starlight 8.

I've also converted USB from the renderer to i2S using the Singxer SU-6 and then the SU-2 but these were only very minor improvements.

I did try a few USB Regens early on but only got minor incremental improvements. After reading Austinpop's Innuos Phoenix review I pulled the trigger and right from cold out of the box the SQ improved by 500%. The halo of glare around Anna Netrebko's voice was 90% reduced.

500% sounds like BS, but that's how I call it. Getting a pair of EtherRegens on Wednesday. I suspect that will also be positive.

 

 

 

[matthias]

26 minutes ago, AudioBang said:

From my experience, I think VerdantAudio is spot on.

My first Server as a source was an Antipodes DX 2. From memory and shooting from the hip, I'd say it was a 30% jump in SQ over my Krell 505 transport. Upgrading to the DX 3 and switching from SqueezeBox to Roon was another 25% improvement over the DX 2. 

I was getting outstanding imaging on certain source material but un-listenable glare and blur on certain instruments...

Anna Netrebko's powerful vibrato... I'm not an opera listener but once I hone in on certain source material/frequencies that bring my system to its knees, I keep referencing back to it for neutrality check after system tweaks. I then tried a discontinued Auralic Renderer and again, another 20% SQ jump. I then upgraded to the Antipodes CX/EX and SQ jumped another 50% over the DX 3 - but the halo of glare around Anna Netrebko's vibrato remained just as un-listenable. The common denominator was USB using WireWorld Platinum Starlight 8.

I've also converted USB from the renderer to i2S using the Singxer SU-6 and then the SU-2 but these were only very minor improvements.

I did try a few USB Regens early on but only got minor incremental improvements. After reading Austinpop's Innuos Phoenix review I pulled the trigger and right from cold out of the box the SQ improved by 500%. The halo of glare around Anna Netrebko's voice was 90% reduced.

500% sounds like BS, but that's how I call it. Getting a pair of EtherRegens on Wednesday. I suspect that will also be positive.

 

Sorry, wrong thread, nothing about Rockna.

There is a better thread here:

Matt

[Saleh84]

Just got my Rockna Wavedream NET server 3 days ago, too early to give a detailed and final opinion, but intial impressions are very positive - I'm quiet impressed!

Previously while waiting on NET, I have tried my WD signature dac with aurender N10 and singxer/laptop. Both had their advantages and short comings. N10 sounded somehow flat and boring but quite and well rounded, laptop/singxer/roon combo was more dynamic and alive but you could feel there is noise/jitter in the mix. Enter the wavedream NET!

First day, some hint of harshness was there, guess brand new everything esp in power supply section that needs to settle/break in. As soon as the second day, that was gone and the NET transformed into an awesome musical machine! Dynamics are unbelievable. i could immediately feel improvements everywhere, but bass refinement stood out immediately. Sound stage is bigger, deeper, separation enhanced. texture of instruments like i never heard before - details are there in spades. N10 can never compete with such presentation. It might be more laid back, but i prefer Rockna's more lively yet rounded sound. 

Well, everything matters in play back. I already have an etherregen, @AudioBang, you would love this switch I'm almost sure. It scales well with better power supplies - try to replace the stock brick as soon as you can with a linear PS or a decent switching PS like ifi ipower x.

talking about glare, i just had a friend over who brought 2 x AQ diamond RJ45s with him to replace two AQ vodkas i have as an experiment.

I have actually 3 rj45s in my setup: 1 vodka from wall to ubiquity edgerouter, 1 vodka from edgerouter to etherregen, the a diamond (all silver) to the wavedream NET. My mind got blown with every cable we swapped! I knew diamond was better than vodka already hence i had it as last cable before the server, but didn't expect the effect to go that much upstream! Things got quieter, separation got better, more importantly the disappearance of any hint of glare, dreamy roundness to die for. I'm replacing at least on of those vodkas now.

I believe doesn't matter what equipment you use, even the best ones in the world would still be affected if you introduce better cables or introduce a decent switch etc. Even the well regarded SGM extreme.

 

[AudioBang]

I have been following this thread with a measure of exuberance as I have been contemplating a new DAC.

Prior to considering the Wavedream, I had the Playback Designs MPD-8, then the Tambaqui and possibly even the BAT REX DAC [which runs the Playback Designs algorithm] on my short list.

Saleh84 - Thanks for your posts. Your level of satisfaction and discovery makes them fun to read.

Having experienced the Wavedream DAC and then the NET Server, is there a way to generally quantify your level of satisfaction between the step up with the Wavedream DAC vs. the step up with the Wavedream NET source?

[Saleh84]

@AudioBang

Thanks. well, I want to point out that I'm no expert by any means to properly review or judge, nor have listened to many dacs, just been lucky to afford buying the WD and try it out then share my personal impressions the best way i could. the humble but worth mentioning list of dacs that i heard, contains denafrips terminator (my dac prior to the WD), heard chord dave many times in my own setup, then Aries cerat behemoth of a dac called kassandra ref ii. I have never even heard of the choices you mentioned above unfortunately.

The WD dac strikes a perfect balance to me. On its own with humble source it still flexes and shows some substantial capabilities. But in my case, owning a server like N10 for long (my previous server) i knew I need a proper server to unlock any dac's full potential and could not fully judge the WD before i do that. Recently and even before i make the WD dac move, i was getting tired from aurender sound, and started to hear its weaknesses more than its advantages. So for a brief moment i considered getting one of the current superstars of today, the SGM extreme or the pink faun 2.16, but their prices were way above what I planned to spend, I didn't want to build a DYI server like some friends of mine did, then I made the move from terminator to WD dac. My initial plan was to wait for wavelight server as I had no need for CD at all, but i could not wait till rockna releases it, got the NET instead. 3 days into using the rockna stack, im short; My feeling was Rockna should push more towards selling them as a package as some told me while i was waiting my NET!

I lived with singxer as source for 2 months, borrowed  my friend's N10 few times, even borrowed an auralic G1 for a couple of days. But once you hear something "better", you get a better understanding of what was missing. In this case with NET, way more of every good trait, amplifying and lifting up the dac performance (the dac on its own is very good but no comparison). what caught my attention after the slightly disappointing day 1, is increased dynamics, increased details, beautiful textures, the perfect amount of body and sweetness was added. My laptop/singer/roon combo was behind aurender in mids/vocals reproduction and sounded thinner, but had better attack, dynamics and the transparency (its laughable but true!). The NET kept those good traits, surpassed them by a good amount, AND gave the sweetness and fullness of aurender beautiful mids. Ah, again, the incredible hard hitting, beautifully textured bass that starts and stop almost instantly (well many other components play a role in that, I'm talking about the streamer part in bass reproduction). Then the bigger, deeper stage with better separation and allocation of instruments in a virtual 3d space, the usual cliche of describing an improvement . Also, the pitch black background quietness that you get only with a decent server design, another cliche which its true here. In all honesty if i had to put in percentage, i would say maybe 40% improvement over something that was already excellent. After hearing the changes I got, some friends are even curious to try the NET in their setups with their Dacs, particularly my friend who owns the kassandra, as he doesn't want to pay 25k euro for an extreme now. If it works fir him and the synergy was better than his aurender N10 (yeah we both had N10s), he will get one. I think it would be easily the case from what I'm hearing now!

I would advise you to try and listen first for yourself, what i might enjoy may not suit you. Rockna sound is lively, dynamic, well timed, pure, and musical. Not focused on emotional traits being "warm" or "dense" type of sound, nor laid back, but its not thin/ brutal or aggressive by any means either. it has the musicality to engage you and the right amount of everything. Its hard to characterise, really. From one track to the other, its colour changes.

It all boils down to what is your preference and must haves in your priority list of expectations from a high end dac. Hope that i have been of help

[matthias]

@AudioBang

Apologies for my post #28

 

Matt

[AudioBang]

17 minutes ago, matthias said:

@AudioBang

Apologies for my post #28

 

Matt

Not a problem my friend! A valid post on your end.

[ag3__]

Absolutely love the Rockna DAC.  I've got the basic model (Wavedream SE - single ended) and it smoked the yggy and Holo 2 (had all 3 in my listening room for 2+ months).  I'd like to eventually upgrade to the Signature edition when funds permit.  Definitely the one component in my system that I don't second guess at all, totally happy with it.  

 

I'm now in the game for an end game server and want to use the i2s input as well.  Looking between the Wavedream NET, WaveLight Server, and a little know Musica Pristina server that seems to really be built around i2s.  I'm also considering the Sonore Signature Optical unit and using USB out - but then I've got to get a bunch more boxes to convert from wire to fiber, audiophile power supplies etc. 

 

My biggest issue with i2s is finding a top end HDMI cable.  Almost all cable manufacturers are making reference level USB cables but very few are delivering HDMI cables with TOTL materials (more geared towards video).  I'm hoping Wireworld releases a Starlight Platinum 8 HDMI now that they've started using OCC Silver.  

[VerdantAudio]

For endgame server, check out Antipodes.  I have talked to a few folks who said they are completely game-changing devices.  I have no direct experience but know a few folks who have been super happy.  

[Saleh84]

Hi ag3,

 

Glad you are enjoying the dac, its absolutely phenomenal. I have only heard the signature but I'm sure yours is very close. 

 

From the i2s servers you mentioned, I have just heard the NET. However, the discovery I made after experimenting other outputs of the NET (usb and coax), also other servers within my friend's group, such as aurender n10 (my previous server), auralic g1, DCS network bridge, and a custom built server: 

1)the NET literally walked all over those. Its better by a good margin on all aspects.

2)the NET strength is not the I2s. Its the NET itself! I2s is a slightly better, but i would recommend this server with any dac even if it doesn't have an i2s input. Any output on the NET would do, for real. honestly speaking, right now i feel its a better value than the dac. That's how awesome it is.

 

From chatting with Nucu, the wavelight server is very close to NET performance minus the CD memory player section. I would have bought a wavelight, but i just couldn't wait till its available. I have no CDs at all.

 

You wavedream dac will surprise you, how much better it would sound when coupled with NET or wavelight (any dac in fact would). My suggestion, look no further, i firmly believe in this price segment, the rockna servers are superior and will crush anything. I'm surprised they don't have more recognition for the servers, but mostly the dacs. 

 

For I2s cable, I'm an audioquest fan. They have a pure solid silver HDMI, called diamond. Its also available in 60 cm length. The shorter the better I believe with i2s. I'm quite happy with it, sound is perfectly balanced. I got 1m length, but 60cm also would work and will save you some $$$. 

 

topping all that off, just started powering my ubiquity router and etherregen with a paul hynes sr5 dual rail instead of ifi dc bricks. All i can say it was worth the 4 months wait! I can't really believe the sound that I'm getting right now. I doubt I'm touching my digital end for a very very long time. I might try at some point to source an amp which is matching my cube speaker even more (the tube LM845 amp i have right now is great, but it has some small amount of negative feedback which is not ideal). The cube speakers are quite sensitive to the specifications of amplification, and if curiosity gets me again, that's the only thing i might tinker with. Besides that, consider me retired ))

[Fife]

What remote control options are there for the NET?

[giordy60]

4 hours ago, Fife said:

What remote control options are there for the NET?

 

do you mean these options?

[PavelDosko]

Hello,

I wanted to ask which DDC with I2S you prefer, my setting is NUC (headless i7, Daphile) - iFi Merury - iFi iGalvanic - iFi iUSB3 - iFi Gemini dualhead - Rockna Wavedream XLR and I would like to use the I2S input on Rockna

[Saleh84]

Agree about streamer role.

I have had the wavedream NET server for months now. Its literally "half" the sound of the whole digital front end! I honestly also think its a better overall value than the dac itself among rockna offerings. It crushes the performance of the aurender n10, and many other servers that i tried to compare to, including dcs network bridge and auralic g1/g2. 

[kdubious]

I’ve been considering starting a chain, passing around a Musica Pristina “A Cappella III” with I2S output so more people can experience that format. The device is only controllable through Roon, and requires an I2S capable DAC of the “PS Audio LVDS over HDMI spec.” Rockna is compatible.

 

Anyone interested, shoot me a note, and if the logistics work out, I’ll send one around.

[PavelDosko]

Does anyone have information on when the Rockna Wavelight Server will finally be on sale?

[Zurv]

@PavelDosko I think a lot of use would like to know that answer too.

I just ordered my wavedream and I would have also ordered the wavelight server too.. but.. *shrug*

 

In the meantime i got the Pink Faun i2s bridge.

[VerdantAudio]

I have since become a Rockna dealer and have an idea.  Theoretically, the server is supposed to start shipping in May-June 2021.   There are a lot of back-orders from late last year when we believed that it would ship in February.  Those have to be cleared.  
 

That means new orders hopefully will begin being accepted by end of June but this is not guaranteed.  

[Zurv]

@VerdantAudio oh.. can i pepper you with some questions?

 

(i emailed rockna and got nothing I also emailed pink faun and they do reply, but only to some of what i ask.)

This is about clocks and sources.

 

Main question, how are the rockna's clocks in the wavedream. The clocks are Femto.. One can also pick which clock the dac is going to follow. Local (its own) or remote (the source sending it).

 

When i'm sending audio I'll be using my PC. Not just for music, but work stuff, YouTube, gaming, etc. (I'm also plan to use the pi2saes when the PC is off. Then maybe to upgrade from that to a wavelight server.. maybe)

 

So should i be using a better clock? ie, OCXO?

https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/content/11-clocks

 

now to the the physical source in the PC. 

I like the pink faun stuff because of external power and the positive buzz about them.

Right now i have the Pink Faun i2s bridge. But it is limited - seemly can't stream DSD.

[quote] the Pink Faun HEA bridge is the best to use for streaming PCM files up to 32bit / 192KHz [/quote]

But i don't use DSD right now. (but maybe i will?)

 

Or i could order the USB pink Faun bridge. That is more flexible. I also too have the AQ diamond USB cable already too.

 

But doesn't the DAC sound better from the i2s than usb? Is there any real way to test it without getting equal sources. 

hrmm.. maybe someone with the wavedream net can test outputs to the dac using i2s and usb?

 

Thanks!

[Saleh84]

Hi,

 

I do have wavedream signature dac and NET.

I can tell you the difference between USB and I2s is not massive. But the difference between not having the NET in your chain is.

NET is just a great server. And also a CD player (i don't use that bit much).

The I2s gives you a bit more of everything. But USB is not at all far behind. And some other people found that USB input from a server like SGM extreme was better than NET with I2s, so to have you relax, I2s is not a must, its the preferred connection method for rockna servers to get the last bit of performance.

 

By the way, if you are not already listening to DSD and favouring it, don't start, there is not advantage in my opinion. Most DSD tracks are just taken from a PCM source. We don't really need more that 16 bit 44.1 khz to enjoy. So if that's what's holding you from the pink faun card, i advise you not to. I used to have this format anxiety few years back when i was buying my first dac. Its all gimmicks))

 

Lastely, I get in touch at times with Rockna to ask questions, they are great people, just unbelievably extremely busy. Also, they are perfectionists. the wavelight server won't be released until its perfected, lets hope its the upcoming couple of months!

 

 

[Zurv]

16 minutes ago, Saleh84 said:

Hi,

 

I do have wavedream signature dac and NET.

I can tell you the difference between USB and I2s is not massive. But the difference between not having the NET in your chain is.

NET is just a great server. And also a CD player (i don't use that bit much).

The I2s gives you a bit more of everything. But USB is not at all far behind. And some other people found that USB input from a server like SGM extreme was better than NET with I2s, so to have you relax, I2s is not a must, its the preferred connection method for rockna servers to get the last bit of performance.

 

By the way, if you are not already listening to DSD and favouring it, don't start, there is not advantage in my opinion. Most DSD tracks are just taken from a PCM source. We don't really need more that 16 bit 44.1 khz to enjoy. So if that's what's holding you from the pink faun card, i advise you not to. I used to have this format anxiety few years back when i was buying my first dac. Its all gimmicks))

 

Lastely, I get in touch at times with Rockna to ask questions, they are great people, just unbelievably extremely busy. Also, they are perfectionists. the wavelight server won't be released until its perfected, lets hope its the upcoming couple of months!

 

 

 

Thanks sir! (You are part of the reason i ordered the wavedream. (headfi, and SBAF))

So i'm likely good with the Pink Faun i2s bridge that i have in my hand now. But yes, if you could get some input from Rockna about the clocks - that would be amazing!

I'm not buying the Ultra OCXO for $1300.. but maybe their normal OCXO clock if it is better than the rockna (that i can hear, not just on paper)

(ugh,, that means i need a i2s cable then too. But in the short term i'll just use the AQ carbon 48)

[Saleh84]

I always hope everyone could listen before they buy. I bought its blind, but ended up liking it A LOT.

Let it break and don't really judge before a lottt of hours. I noticed r2r dacs take time to break in. First with denafrips terminator, then with wavedream.

Rockna have a unique method with clocks. They can get better timing without resorting to something expensive and extreme like OCXO. I know that cause my NET replaced my aurender n10 with such fancy clock, and its a much better sounding server.

According to Nucu (you can find him of FB btw, and he replies!) If you are not sure about source clock, use "stream" clock. It keeps refreshing the dac internal clock more often for better timing. If you are connected to a good source, i.e NET or wavelight server, use local. It will "lock" on the server clock. 

My advice, wait for the dac, break it in, use your pink faun with AQ carbon (i have AQ diamond and just ordered a dargon 48, that hurt financially but I'm super curious to try it). You will be happy. When the next Audiophile upgrade wish hits you, hopefully the wavelight server would be ready, and i assure you, it will blow your mind )) 

 

[Saleh84]

One last advice, the shorter the hdmi cable, the better according to Nucu and also other people on the internet. I2s is not meant to travel long distances. 60cm is perfect, 1m is acceptable too. Don't go longer!

[Fife]

Tubulus makes 3 different i2S cables. Well built with the most solid connectors.