Files disappearing from Synology server – a mystery

[DavidZ]

Thanks Ted! Do you think there might be some interaction between Jriver auto-import and the synology OS? I kind of doubt it, only because the problem would likely be more prevalent among Synology/JRiver users, no? -- David

[jtwrace]

 

I agree that there are no excuses for you getting blown off or under-prioritized by Synology customer service. I will ping some folks I know at Synology and let them know of this thread.

It's a common theme with Synology. I had the same exact result with them when I had a problem. Great product but customer service is nearly non existent.

[Paul R]

Great - my DS412+ is coming in tomorrow. Just what I need, a giant, 16TB file shredder . . .

 

I would suggest the file-shredding problem might be some interaction with either JRMC (unlikely?) or with some of the software load on the Synology. I am not really familiar with devices that small, but it looks to be a customized Linux load on the beastie with a number of add on "modules".

 

It does seem very light on the RAM (512MB) so there might be some kind of cache issue happening. That's a really small amount of memory to run the OS in and do any serious caching as well.

 

In any case, there are probably log files on the bestie somewhere that might provide a better clue for the OP.

 

-Paul

[baddog]

To follow up on one of Ted's questions, for your settings in JRiver for Auto Import (configure Auto Import), do you have update for external changes enabled? And if yes, do you have Fix Broken links set to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)?

 

Also I apologize for not remembering, do you use the Synology for anything other than storing music files? If yes, do any of those files ever disappear as well? The reason I ask is I partially believe it may have to do with a JRiver setting or workflow component, I know that doesn't make sense, but not sure where else to look. The fact that everything works fine if placed in a subfolder is the wildcard here.

 

Barr

[jhwalker]

I would suggest the file-shredding problem might be some interaction with either JRMC (unlikely?) or with some of the software load on the Synology. I am not really familiar with devices that small, but it looks to be a customized Linux load on the beastie with a number of add on "modules".

 

It does seem very light on the RAM (512MB) so there might be some kind of cache issue happening. That's a really small amount of memory to run the OS in and do any serious caching as well.

 

In any case, there are probably log files on the bestie somewhere that might provide a better clue for the OP.

 

-Paul

 

The DS412+ I'm getting has 1GB RAM, not 512MB, but I agree that's light. Apparently, the Intel Atom processor on the machine will only support 3GB total, and the firmware has problems with 4GB chips, so my understanding is some are upgrading to 2GB total with good results. I'm going to try it with the 1GB it comes with, then take it from there

 

I only expect to use it as a NAS, not a lot of added overhead, so hopefully I'll be "good".

[Paul R]

The DS412+ I'm getting has 1GB RAM, not 512MB, but I agree that's light. Apparently, the Intel Atom processor on the machine will only support 3GB total, and the firmware has problems with 4GB chips, so my understanding is some are upgrading to 2GB total with good results. I'm going to try it with the 1GB it comes with, then take it from there

 

I only expect to use it as a NAS, not a lot of added overhead, so hopefully I'll be "good".

 

Please post back on your experience with it. I am looking around for less expensive music/video storage solutions at home. Something much less expensive, and with less fans and noise that the SAN I am using for work.

 

-Paul

[DavidZ]

I would suggest the file-shredding problem might be some interaction with either JRMC (unlikely?) or with some of the software load on the Synology. I am not really familiar with devices that small, but it looks to be a customized Linux load on the beastie with a number of add on "modules".

 

It does seem very light on the RAM (512MB) so there might be some kind of cache issue happening. That's a really small amount of memory to run the OS in and do any serious caching as well.

 

In any case, there are probably log files on the bestie somewhere that might provide a better clue for the OP.

 

-Paul

 

Paul --- Synology support has gone thru the debug file and remoted in. They have found nothing amiss in either. Adding more RAM might be an interesting idea --- Given that I provoked the problem by adding 2 gb worth of files in one batch. Thanks. -- David

[DavidZ]

To follow up on one of Ted's questions, for your settings in JRiver for Auto Import (configure Auto Import), do you have update for external changes enabled? And if yes, do you have Fix Broken links set to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)?

 

Also I apologize for not remembering, do you use the Synology for anything other than storing music files? If yes, do any of those files ever disappear as well? The reason I ask is I partially believe it may have to do with a JRiver setting or workflow component, I know that doesn't make sense, but not sure where else to look. The fact that everything works fine if placed in a subfolder is the wildcard here.

 

Barr

 

Barr -- I don't use it for anything other than storing music files. I'm pretty sure big DSD files are the only ones that have gone missing. Not sure about the Jriver settings -- will check. With the advantage of knowing just enough to be dangerous, i'm beginning to think Paul is on the right trail ..... big files, small memory, cache overload, recycling bins filling up.... Maybe if I bounce these ideas off of Synology a light bulb will go on somewhere. thanks for your help. --- David

[baddog]

Well when you copy these same files to a subfolder versus the parent folder there is no issue, I assume the workflow (copy operation) for either scenario is the same?

 

i.e. Copy DSD files to Parent folder, they disappear over time, whereas Copy DSD files to sub folder, files remain in place.

 

Is that correct?

[Paul R]

Paul --- Synology support has gone thru the debug file and remoted in. They have found nothing amiss in either. Adding more RAM might be an interesting idea --- Given that I provoked the problem by adding 2 gb worth of files in one batch. Thanks. -- David

 

I would bounce something harder than an idea of those Synology folks. Perhaps a request to replace the unit in case there is some kind of defective hardware?

 

I cannot imagine any condition where it *should* do what you are reporting it has done. Especially true if the thing is not reporting an error.

 

-Paul

[DavidZ]

I would bounce something harder than an idea of those Synology folks. Perhaps a request to replace the unit in case there is some kind of defective hardware?

 

I cannot imagine any condition where it *should* do what you are reporting it has done. Especially true if the thing is not reporting an error.

 

-Paul

 

 

Thanks. Great idea. I've never gotten any kind of error message. The thing is still under warranty, for whatever that's worth. --- David

[ted_b]

DavidZ,

Please get a hold of Thadd Weil at Synology. His email is [email protected]. He is looking to help escalate (note: he is not technical per se; he's lead guy in marketing, which is where I went first ). He sent me this:

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I wonder, is there any chance you could get me:

 

• DavidZ’s name

• Email address

• Ticket Number

 

I’ll see if I can get his matter escalated.

Just reading through the thread… my guess would be that:

 

• When he goes into the ‘settings’ of his DND (editor: maybe meant DSD?) share folder, he has the setting “Always overwrite files when I drag and drop them onto Web Browser or paste with keyboard shortcuts’ selected

• He has set a limit for how much content can be saved to that folder (not including subfolders)

• There is something in the naming convention that is likened to the former names

— The same way, when you take a bunch of pictures, and then offload them on your phone or storage card, the new files may have different mettadata, but they have the same names as existing files… so when you save them to the same folder, you are asked if you want to overwrite, or cancel the save… maybe he had clicked the setting in the dialogue that says (something like) ‘use this for all similar situations’

• Also, you can turn-off recycle-bins on a per-folder basis.

—> Control Panel —> Shared Folder —> double-click on the folder in question —> ‘Edit Shared Folder XXX’ will pop up —> deselect ‘Enable Recycle Bin’

• Also in —> ‘Edit Shared Folder XXX’ he can go to the ‘File Indexing’ tab, and deselect ‘Enable file indexing’.

 

Those are just the ideas I had off the top of my head.

(Presuming he is using DSM 5.0)

 

 

Otherwise… see if he would be willing to share the information above, and I will see what I can do.

Again, thank you for bringing this to my attention

Thadd

[DavidZ]

DavidZ,

Please get a hold of Thadd Weil at Synology. His email is [email protected]. He is looking to help escalate (note: he is not technical per se; he's lead guy in marketing, which is where I went first ). He sent me this:

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I wonder, is there any chance you could get me:

 

• DavidZ’s name

• Email address

• Ticket Number

 

I’ll see if I can get his matter escalated.

Just reading through the thread… my guess would be that:

 

• When he goes into the ‘settings’ of his DND (editor: maybe meant DSD?) share folder, he has the setting “Always overwrite files when I drag and drop them onto Web Browser or paste with keyboard shortcuts’ selected

• He has set a limit for how much content can be saved to that folder (not including subfolders)

• There is something in the naming convention that is likened to the former names

— The same way, when you take a bunch of pictures, and then offload them on your phone or storage card, the new files may have different mettadata, but they have the same names as existing files… so when you save them to the same folder, you are asked if you want to overwrite, or cancel the save… maybe he had clicked the setting in the dialogue that says (something like) ‘use this for all similar situations’

• Also, you can turn-off recycle-bins on a per-folder basis.

—> Control Panel —> Shared Folder —> double-click on the folder in question —> ‘Edit Shared Folder XXX’ will pop up —> deselect ‘Enable Recycle Bin’

• Also in —> ‘Edit Shared Folder XXX’ he can go to the ‘File Indexing’ tab, and deselect ‘Enable file indexing’.

 

Those are just the ideas I had off the top of my head.

(Presuming he is using DSM 5.0)

 

 

Otherwise… see if he would be willing to share the information above, and I will see what I can do.

Again, thank you for bringing this to my attention

Thadd

 

Awesome, Ted, thanks so much. I'll e-mail him now. -- David

[SeeHear]

The names were my first thought too. Does the KORG name the files with a system that isn't unique from batch to batch?

[DavidZ]

The names were my first thought too. Does the KORG name the files with a system that isn't unique from batch to batch?

 

Seehear -- thanks for the thought. The file names are all unique -- they are, for the most part, the names of the cuts on the CD's from which they were ripped. Over the past week or so, I've documented the 413j simply taking .dsf files from my target "DSD Library" folder, creating a folder of the same name in the Recycling bin, and dumping those files in it. Just bizarre. All the obvious possibilities, like and unintended quota on the folder, user error, etc., have been ruled out. I sent them JRiver logs in case there's some clues there. The developers in Taiwan are looking at it. -- David

[DavidZ]

For those of you on this thread who have been kind enough to take an interest in my Synology saga/melodrama, I have an answer from Synology. Not one I can understand mind you, but since they make it nigh upon impossible to you know, actually talk to the support person on your case, it's all I have so far. Here is my cryptic e-mail from Neil T:

 

Hi David,

 

Our developers have confirmed and can reproduce the fact that JRiver will delete any and all data from the "JRiver library path" which on the Disk Station is /volume1/audio hold/DSD Library

 

Our recommendation is to not put any files in that directory. I would recommend following up with JRiver about your issue.

 

Thanks,

 

Does anyone understand what is being said here? Why would JRiver delete files from this particular library and not my "Main Library" folder when I put stuff there? Why is this issue not rampant with other JRiver / Synology users --- there have to be quite a few out there. Just insanely frustrating -- David

[Paul R]

For those of you on this thread who have been kind enough to take an interest in my Synology saga/melodrama, I have an answer from Synology. Not one I can understand mind you, but since they make it nigh upon impossible to you know, actually talk to the support person on your case, it's all I have so far. Here is my cryptic e-mail from Neil T:

 

Hi David,

 

Our developers have confirmed and can reproduce the fact that JRiver will delete any and all data from the "JRiver library path" which on the Disk Station is /volume1/audio hold/DSD Library

 

Our recommendation is to not put any files in that directory. I would recommend following up with JRiver about your issue.

 

Thanks,

 

Does anyone understand what is being said here? Why would JRiver delete files from this particular library and not my "Main Library" folder when I put stuff there? Why is this issue not rampant with other JRiver / Synology users --- there have to be quite a few out there. Just insanely frustrating -- David

 

 

LOL! That software that you are running done it huh? It's possible, but it sounds more likely that they were able to duplicate the bug, and did not understand it. Well, I think Matt is back at J. River. Might wrap all that up and post it on Interact, or at least point them to the thread here. I can pretty much guess what their answer will be, but... It might be a real JRMC bug.

[One and a half]

You can delete files from JRiver but it's a menu / user interface not an automatic purging system. In the years with jriver there has been drama, but not wholesale deletions.

I find it odd that the support team didn't expand why the files were deleted, surely they would crow about it.

[ted_b]

Post it on Interact and I'll ping Matt. I run 3 JRiver systems and librairies (2 pc, 1 Mac) against my Synology, and not one issue.

[DavidZ]

Thanks guys! I am posting it on Interact now. I guess that is the default position of OS code writers: blame the app.

[DavidZ]

Tonite I am going to export .dsf files the way I have been doing into the now-infamous DSD Library. But I am going to make sure JRiver is not running. That may tell me something.

[baddog]

Tonite I am going to export .dsf files the way I have been doing into the now-infamous DSD Library. But I am going to make sure JRiver is not running. That may tell me something.

 

That's a great idea!

 

BTW - what is the intent with the infamous DSD library? Is it meant to be the permanent location of your DSD albums? Each of which I assume is in a folder under the DSD library?

[DavidZ]

That's a great idea!

 

BTW - what is the intent with the infamous DSD library? Is it meant to be the permanent location of your DSD albums? Each of which I assume is in a folder under the DSD library?

 

Okay, Barr... here's some of the motivation behind my insanity, which I sort of touched on before. It started with the discovery that the Korg-upsampled DSD files just blow away the PCM, at least as they are played back on my Lampizator DAC. Then, there is an extra, if subordinate, ergonomic/laziness motivation. The Lampizator has a physical switch (on the chassis, not the remote) that toggles back and forth between PCM and DSD. So if I mixed in DSD files into my main library, I would have to a) label the album cover icons with "DSD" to know what I'm playing and b) raise myself from the chair to switch. The penalty for playing back DSD or PCM on the wrong setting is painful static or silence.

 

So, to make a long story interminable, I created a new DSD Library to receive all the new .dsf files. Once all are converted it will become the only library. And I won't have to get off my butt except to go to the bathroom. ;<} In my main library, all CD's/downloads are stored in separate folders denoting the original album/CD. As I've done the upsampling it is just easier to dump individual files into the library and let my JRiver tagging keep things organized. -- David

[baddog]

Thanks David - that makes sense. So what I don't quite understand is do you create the .DSF files first locally on your computer and then copy then to the infamous DSD library, or do you have Audiogate create the files on the infamous DSD library itself?

 

And question number 2, and sorry for being slow, is once the files are in the DSD library, what do you do next? Just import them and tag them with JRIVER? I assume they are meant to stay in that location?

 

Oh and BTW if not for the issue of needing to get up and switch the settings on the DAC, you can create a view in JRIVER that just shows DSD files/albums without having to label the albums themselves. You can also create a view that shows everything but .dsf files for your PCM stuff.

 

My DAC doesn't require flipping a switch between the two types (which is neither here nor there nor meant to impugn the Lampi), but I do manage my library which has a mix of both DSD and PCM by the views I mentioned above.

 

Regardless, I understand that you prefer the sound of the PCM files converted to DSD. And I totally understand why that being the case you would go about the conversion process. Hopefully JRIVER will be able to help you out!

[One and a half]

Tonite I am going to export .dsf files the way I have been doing into the now-infamous DSD Library. But I am going to make sure JRiver is not running. That may tell me something.

 

To be sure even if the GUI is switched off, the Media server (service) may still be functional. Switch it off from the systray.