HQ Player

[Samuel T Cogley]

Jussi With an app as good (or as great) as yours when can we expect a version for our smart phone. With a really great headset we will surely reach out and touch the clouds.... Food for thought.

 

I can't imagine how a mobile processor could perform the higher bit rate DSD upsampling without issues. A mobile i7 (like in a Mac Mini) can't do DSD512, and sometimes has issues with DSD256, depending on other things the computer might be doing.

[freesteve]

Just want the very best sound possible for my droid when I exercise with headgear on my stationary bike... and so far that is VLC

[tranz]

Just want the very best sound possible for my droid when I exercise with headgear on my stationary bike... and so far that is VLC

 

That made me laugh. Thanks. Like listening to high-res in a pick up truck.

[bogi]

I can't imagine how a mobile processor could perform the higher bit rate DSD upsampling without issues. A mobile i7 (like in a Mac Mini) can't do DSD512, and sometimes has issues with DSD256, depending on other things the computer might be doing.

 

I have confirmation from other forum that Lenovo Miix 3 8 32GB with Win8 on Intel Atom Quad Core Z3735F, costing about 130 EUR, is able to run PCM to DSD256 in Foobar2000 without dropouts. My experience is that HQplayer -2s filters are not more demanding than Foobar's plugin foo_dsd_asio.

 

My phone LG G3 can run PCM to DSD128 in DoP mode with Onkyo HF Player.

 

I made experiments with more DSD capable Android players. Sound was never as good as from HQPlayer or Foobar on PC, also when I directly played DSD material to DSD capable DAC. I mean the difference is related not only to SW, but significantly to USB cable and probably also to USB implementation in mobile devices. Higher quality USB cables for audio from mobile devices are very rare and rather pricey. I know the level of influence USB cables can have in the case of PC. IMO currently this is bottleneck for reaching higher quality audio from mobile devices.

[OpusOne]

Thanks for the info. Your i7-4930 still cannot handle up sampling to DSD512 with polysinc? Jabbr seems to suggest that his i7-4930k system is more than capable of doing that. Maybe he is over-clocking and he is using a different filters configuration. Just checked on cpubenchmark.net, the 4930k is actually scoring a bit higher than the 5820k, interesting.

[Samuel T Cogley]

I have confirmation from other forum that Lenovo Miix 3 8 32GB with Win8 on Intel Atom Quad Core Z3735F, costing about 130 EUR, is able to run PCM to DSD256 in Foobar2000 without dropouts. My experience is that HQplayer -2s filters are not more demanding than Foobar's plugin foo_dsd_asio.

 

My phone LG G3 can run PCM to DSD128 in DoP mode with Onkyo HF Player.

 

I made experiments with more DSD capable Android players. Sound was never as good as from HQPlayer or Foobar on PC, also when I directly played DSD material to DSD capable DAC. I mean the difference is related not only to SW, but significantly to USB cable and probably also to USB implementation in mobile devices. Higher quality USB cables for audio from mobile devices are very rare and rather pricey. I know the level of influence USB cables can have in the case of PC. IMO currently this is bottleneck for reaching higher quality audio from mobile devices.

 

Streaming a static DSD file is a different task than upsampling Redbook to DSD128 and beyond.

[bogi]

Streaming a static DSD file is a different task than upsampling Redbook to DSD128 and beyond.

 

I understand that. I pointed to 2 things:

1) Current mobile devices are able to do real time conversion from PCM to DSD128 or DSD256.

2) Even if DSD is played from mobile device without any processing, my experience is that sound isn't on the level of playing from PC.

[Samuel T Cogley]

I understand that. I pointed to 2 things:

1) Current mobile devices are able to do real time conversion from PCM to DSD128 or DSD256.

 

I have some experience with that using an iPhone 6, iDSD Micro and HF Player with DSD files. The sound quality doesn't hold a candle to Redbook->HQPlayer from a desktop machine to the same Micro

 

2) Even if DSD is played from mobile device without any processing, my experience is that sound isn't on the level of playing from PC.

 

I think I agree with this.

[Miska]

1) Current mobile devices are able to do real time conversion from PCM to DSD128 or DSD256.

 

You can do a lot of things if you don't care about quality. So for example one could possibly do things the same way DAC chips do on a mobile device. But that's not what I want to do.

 

There are two approaches:

1) One decides on what hardware they want to run something and then try to find a way to do it so that it works on intended hardware

2) One tries to find technically as good as possible way to do something and then see on what kind of hardware it could run on

 

I take the approach (2).

 

For reference, I built HQPlayer Desktop for CuBox-i4Pro (quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 @1 GHz) a while back. I had to drop resolution to 32-bit and trade off quite a bit of algorithm quality and then it was just barely possible to run upsampling to DSD64.

[bogi]

Miska, that's clear and I pointed to that also in the Onkyo HF Player thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/onkyo-hf-player-ios-now-capable-realtime-direct-stream-digital-5-6mhz-conversion-24037/#post415356

 

2) One tries to find technically as good as possible way to do something and then see on what kind of hardware it could run on

 

IMO your algorithms also cannot ignore amount of required processing resources, but you can count with more processing power.

 

One could convert PCM tracks to DSD offline for mobile device, although that's time consuming task. But I could not get the same sound quality from my phone as from my PC also when I played DSD tracks without any processing to a DSD capable DAC. I don't know if it is only about USB cables - you need always some OTG adapter - or maybe mobile devices are more noisy because of higher level of miniaturization.

[daryl9]

I have just purchased and registered HQ Player, thank you Miska

[OpusOne]

Thanks for the info. Your i7-4930 still cannot handle up sampling to DSD512 with polysinc? Jabbr seems to suggest that his i7-4930k system is more than capable of doing that. Maybe he is over-clocking and he is using a different filters configuration. Just checked on cpubenchmark.net, the 4930k is actually scoring a bit higher than the 5820k, interesting.

 

Jussi, Can you please comment on this? I am sure we all would like to know what is your workstation/computer configuration and chic of processor at least as a reference for their next hardware upgrade. Thanks.

[shahed99]

Recently finished building my dedicated music server with all Paul Pang mods and audiophile optimizer. Last night I downloaded HQ Player demo and got a chance to hear PCM to DSD 128 conversion for 15 minutes. What a leap in sound quality. Very impressed. I'm certain to buy the HQ Player within few days. However few question:

 

1. I use Lampizator Level 7 dac. It has Amanero USB module. Which driver should I chose? WASAPI or ASIO? WASAPI always works but ASIO was a bit flaky, either not working or there's distortion. Which is recommended for Amanero USB module and Lampizator dac?

 

2. There's consistent lag when I press play e.g. after loading tracks and pressing play it takes like a second or two for the music to start. When I click pause, it takes a second or two for the music to be paused.

 

3. Is there any way to random/shuffle play for the entire music library? I guess I've to add the 'root directory of my music folder'.

 

Anyone using HQ Player with minimal/core mode in audiophile optimizer? Any issues I need to aware of?

[Miska]

IMO your algorithms also cannot ignore amount of required processing resources, but you can count with more processing power.

 

I am taking it into account by utilizing newest CPU features and trying to optimize the algorithms to be as fast as possible without trading quality for speed.

[Miska]

1. I use Lampizator Level 7 dac. It has Amanero USB module. Which driver should I chose? WASAPI or ASIO? WASAPI always works but ASIO was a bit flaky, either not working or there's distortion. Which is recommended for Amanero USB module and Lampizator dac?

 

ASIO is usually the preferred one, but if your Lampi maxes out at DSD128 and/or you experience problems with ASIO, then WASAPI may be better option in your case.

 

2. There's consistent lag when I press play e.g. after loading tracks and pressing play it takes like a second or two for the music to start. When I click pause, it takes a second or two for the music to be paused.

 

This is normal. HQPlayer is a big ship and it takes time to maneuver.

 

3. Is there any way to random/shuffle play for the entire music library? I guess I've to add the 'root directory of my music folder'.

 

You could create a huge playlist by dropping the root directory of your music folder on the HQPlayer window. Then you can play this in random order. Depending on size of your library, this operation may take a while since it takes a look at every file to know what is to be included.

[Miska]

Jussi, Can you please comment on this? I am sure we all would like to know what is your workstation/computer configuration and chic of processor at least as a reference for their next hardware upgrade. Thanks.

 

I have number of machines ranging from MacMini to Xeon E5 workstation. For DSD256 and higher, it is usually beneficial to have a quad-core CPU with high as possible clock speed and fast RAM. But IIRC my dual-core i5 MacMini also manages to go DSD256, I just normally have the TEAC UD-501 connected to it so I need to do only DSD128 on it. For those higher DSD256+ rates you may want to use the -2s oversampling filters and on a quad-core enable Pipeline SDM, especially for DSD512. On a dual-core, Pipeline SDM just increases CPU load without any benefit.

 

On non-2s poly-sinc filters to higher rates large CPU cache may help.

 

From technical performance point of view, -2s filters are similar with the non-2s variants, but since the filters and the structure are somewhat different, there may be slight sonic differences. But this may also depend on platform.

[Jamesroy]

What's the price for Mac version and on there page it says I need [email protected]

• Audio interface with CoreAudio or ASIO drivers
  

[tranz]

Even on the Mac mini I noticed a difference using the -2 filter versions vs standard. Less fatiguing. So the more the CPU needs to work, the more detrimental impact. Perhaps this is resolved by sticking an NAA before the DAC, but that I have not tried yet.

 

And I guess I still need to say...OMSTME. (On my system, to my ears.)

[bogi]

I am taking it into account by utilizing newest CPU features and trying to optimize the algorithms to be as fast as possible without trading quality for speed.

 

I understand your focus to SQ and that's the only reason why I bought HQPlayer.

I'm glad I am able to run poly-sinc PCM to DSD128 without dropouts. I prefer it over the -2s version - more saturate sound. The -2s filters sound me slightly veiled in comparison.

[Jamesroy]

What's the price for Mac version and on there page it says I need [email protected]

 

• Audio interface with CoreAudio or ASIO drivers
  

[tranz]

Hi bogi,

Do you have an NAA setup?

[bogi]

Hi bogi,

Do you have an NAA setup?

 

No, I'm playing straight from my notebook. I'm simply not sure which of cheaper NAA HW are good enough, I am reading mixed comments. Linux is very well customizable, no doubt, but disadvantage is lack of ASIO drivers. So I am waiting ... NAA could be interesting to try, but: Another box, another power supply, another cable. Better would be to integrate such a solution with DAC and to avoid USB or S/PDIF type of transport, as it is discussed in the DSC 1 2 3 thread.

 

I am using some little things to improve SQ:

- ramdisk

- better than low quality USB cable (Supra)

- fine tuning of XMOS ASIO driver parameters (streaming mode)

- simple LPS to feed clean +5V to USB input of my DAC

- inexpensive, but still some power filter

- generally, RCA cables have also not so small influence ... My focus on price/value can be funny, but I ended with pure telecommunication cable http://www.rfparts.com/fileuploader/download/download/?d=0&file=custom%2Fupload%2FFile-1366335161.pdf

 

These inexpensive little things bring me together some level of improvement.

[Miska]

Linux is very well customizable, no doubt, but disadvantage is lack of ASIO drivers.

- fine tuning of XMOS ASIO driver parameters (streaming mode)

 

Linux doesn't need ASIO drivers, since it has even better audio API of it's own. If USB interface in your DAC is XMOS based and supports ASIO DSD (non-DoP), it could be possible to easily support the same DSD mode on Linux too. Assuming it uses the same method as number of other XMOS based interfaces.

[joelha]

Miska,

 

Assuming the DAC can be driven satisfactorily, do you have a preference for one OS over another?

 

I'm guessing Linux, but I'd love to know what you think. And if it is Linux, then you suggest Ubuntu or something else?

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

[labjr]

I downloaded the HQplayer trial for Windows. Its seems complicated. I keep getting error messages. I can't get a DSF file to play on My laptop? Is this supposed to be possible without an external DAC?