HQ Player

[joelha]

I have to weigh in here with some experience that might not be related, but I'll give it a shot anyway: In the past, I have used the dual-PC setup with JPlay and Audiophile Optimizer. Later, I installed one of Paul Pang's Sata cables on my Audiopc. Sure enough, there was a nice improvement.

 

Marcin (of JPlay) then told me, much to my surprise, that adding one of Paul's Sata cables to the Controlpc would also bring a meaningful improvement. I couldn't understand how that could be, but then my limited (and often humbling) understanding of this hobby should not be the basis for what will and won't work. So I added the Sata cable to my Controlpc and again found a good improvement.

 

Both PC's in this arrangement were connected by Ethernet cable.

 

I think it's best on these forums to speak from experience rather than from expectations. Because, in this audiophile's experience, expectations so often give way to reality.

 

Joel

[jabbr]

I have all those things (JCAT USB card, separate linear or battery power for all SSD, card, mobo, etc) on my server. Are you saying my WS2012 server ought to be the NAA? Then use a puny Atom CAPS v2-ish HQPlayer machine? It will never do any upsampling, since even my i7 3770S server is brought to its knees at the max end (eq'd DSD128 to DSD256).

 

My understanding of the server vs NAA is quite different, with NAA allowing to be lightweight and the server doing the heavy (in my case very heavy) lifting. So move JCAT card to a small Windows NAA? It still doesn't answer my need to have a well oiled (optimized) heavy cpu machine to do heavy lifting. Am I missing something here (and I easily could be )?

 

The heavy lifting machine which does the upsampling/conversion/deconvolution etc. is likely to have high power requirements and will generally have an electrically noisy environment. My machine has a couple of GPUs and a 4k monitor which emits gobs of noise. It may also be physically noisy with fans etc. Let that machine do the math and send the bits out over the wire (Ethernet). HQPlayer needs to run on this machine because it has very high CPU requirements.

 

I have an NAA which is a DN2800MT board which is low power and silent. It is in a different room than my workstation. It receives the bits. I have a PPA USB V2 which I was getting ready to install when my Corning and regen arrived. So my NAA outputs via Corning to regen -> DAC (iFi iDSD micro which does DSD512 in my case). This is both an electrically and acoustically low noise environment (well except for my plasma TV but go with me here )

 

The point is that HQPlayer runs on the heavy lifting machine (in my case i7-4930k with 64gb) which I leave as a general purpose workstation which is electrically isolated from the NAA and consequently electrically isolates all the junk from the audio hardware. Right move JCAT card in your case to the NAA (the NAA talks to the DAC). The audio optimization stuff doesn't optimize the heavy lifting machine to do a better job at math. I believe the audio optimization scripts are designed to reduce the electrical noise of the machine. Since the NAA is the one connected to the DAC, it is the NAA which should be stripped down and optimized.

[ted_b]

I have to weigh in here with some experience that might not be related, but I'll give it a shot anyway: In the past, I have used the dual-PC setup with JPlay and Audiophile Optimizer. Later, I installed one of Paul Pang's Sata cables on my Audiopc. Sure enough, there was a nice improvement.

 

Marcin (of JPlay) then told me, much to my surprise, that adding one of Paul's Sata cables to the Controlpc would also bring a meaningful improvement. I couldn't understand how that could be, but then my limited (and often humbling) understanding of this hobby should not be the basis for what will and won't work. So I added the Sata cable to my Controlpc and again found a good improvement.

 

Both PC's in this arrangement were connected by Ethernet cable.

 

I think it's best on these forums to speak from experience rather than from expectations. Because, in this audiophile's experience, expectations so often give way to reality.

 

Joel

Joel, Hi. Yes, I did exact same, as you know. Who was this point targeted to? It seems dual pc in HQPlayer world is somewhat the opposite architecture (heavy-to-light) whereas I found a Jplay dual pc setup being more favored to a heavier server end than client (partly due to client was usually JRiver and no heavy upsampling).

[ted_b]

The heavy lifting machine which does the upsampling/conversion/deconvolution etc. is likely to have high power requirements and will generally have an electrically noisy environment.........

 

Great explanation jabbr, thanks. Making more sense as I learn . I am kind of halfway there. My ex-client machine (sitting idle right now) is a DN2800MT with currently two ethernet cards, a battery powered SSD, but would move JCAT to that machine and ditch the extra PCIe ethernet card. Does NAA run on WS2012 (prolly not)? NAA is not a private network connection to HQplayer machine, is it?

[jabbr]

There is a Windows version of the NAA software so you should be good to go. There are reports of issues with private connections (it wants DHCP). If Ethernet switches are a concern, or there is a concern about noise travelling down the Ethernet wire, I think the dual FMC optical isolation technique is a nice low cost solution. I'm in the process of evaluating SFP+ connections but nothing to report yet.

[edbk]

I have tried with fmc's and linear supply on the pc running hq player and it still made a difference despite the naa pc already fitted with fmc's and linear supply. The hqplayer pc alone with fmc's and linear ps is improved by an naa pc with switching supply And without fmc's. Go figure huh..

[joelha]

Joel, Hi. Yes, I did exact same, as you know. Who was this point targeted to? It seems dual pc in HQPlayer world is somewhat the opposite architecture (heavy-to-light) whereas I found a Jplay dual pc setup being more favored to a heavier server end than client (partly due to client was usually JRiver and no heavy upsampling).

 

Hey Ted,

 

It was in response to this quote from jabbr: "No need to optimize the machine HQPlayer is running on. You can optimize the NAA to your heart's content including LPS, PPA USB V2 card, Corning USB/regen etc etc. The noise from the HQPlayer machine is brickwalled from the NAA."

 

My experience has been that improving the playback abilities of either machine in a dual-PC setup can have a positive impact on the system.

 

Joel

[Miska]

I am not saying that others have to increase priority. That's not my point. My point is that changing HQPlayer's priority may affect HQPlayers's ability to run polysinc on less powerful HW. Maybe there is yet some room for optimization, that's my message.

 

OK, I'll nudge the priorities a bit for the next Windows version, let's see how that'll be.

[EuroDriver]

I have tried with fmc's and linear supply on the pc running hq player and it still made a difference despite the naa pc already fitted with fmc's and linear supply. The hqplayer pc alone with fmc's and linear ps is improved by an naa pc with switching supply And without fmc's. Go figure huh..

 

This has been our experience too.

 

Two PC set up, with NAA isolated with FMC. Install Primo RamDisk on HQ Payer desktop PC and we get a distinct repeatable upgrade in sound quality !

 

HQP on Win sounds better than MAC. There is no question in my mind, that tweaking the HQ P desktop machine improves sound quality. This is also the experience with the NAA users on the NextHardware forum in Italy

[jabbr]

I have tried with fmc's and linear supply on the pc running hq player and it still made a difference despite the naa pc already fitted with fmc's and linear supply. The hqplayer pc alone with fmc's and linear ps is improved by an naa pc with switching supply And without fmc's. Go figure huh..

 

What size LPS on the HQPlayer machine? What level DSD are you upsampling to? What are the specs of your HQPlayer machine?

[joelha]

This has been our experience too.

 

Two PC set up, with NAA isolated with FMC. Install Primo RamDisk on HQ Payer desktop PC and we get a distinct repeatable upgrade in sound quality !

 

HQP on Win sounds better than MAC. There is no question in my mind, that tweaking the HQ P desktop machine improves sound quality. This is also the experience with the NAA users on the NextHardware forum in Italy

 

EuroDriver,

 

Any experience with HQPlayer using a Linux OS? If so, what are you opinions about sound quality vs. Windows?

 

I'll be happy to get anyone else's opinion on this matter as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

[EuroDriver]

Has anyone written an OS optimizer (Fidelizer or CAD's script for Win 8, AO for WS2012) script for Win 10 yet? And if so has anyone used it with HQPlayer?

 

AudioPhil is never at sleep at the wheel ;-)

[EuroDriver]

EuroDriver,

 

Any experience with HQPlayer using a Linux OS? If so, what are you opinions about sound quality vs. Windows?

 

I'll be happy to get anyone else's opinion on this matter as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

 

As my Exasound only has Win and Mac drivers, I have not tried HQP on Linux.

 

A Windows friend tried Linux compared to Win Server 2013 with a player other HQP and was disappointed with the SQ from the Linux setup.

 

the feeling is the Linux USB drivers are not as good as the best (ASIO) USB drivers on Windows

[Miska]

Any experience with HQPlayer using a Linux OS? If so, what are you opinions about sound quality vs. Windows?

 

I'll be happy to get anyone else's opinion on this matter as well.

 

Linux is the primary HQPlayer development platform, so I'm using HQPlayer on Linux most of the time. Technical performance is best on Linux. Windows and OS X both have their own challenges.

[edbk]

@jabbr

300VA

Dsd128

Both hqp and naa machines i7 3770T

[bibo01]

EuroDriver,

 

Any experience with HQPlayer using a Linux OS? If so, what are you opinions about sound quality vs. Windows?

 

I'll be happy to get anyone else's opinion on this matter as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

I can second Miska's view on this.

On my server I have both Windows (8.1 and WS) and Linux (AudioLinux). In Linux HQPlayer runs very smooth and fast, and I can also use HQPlayer Embedded to control on smartphone/tablet with BubleUPnP. The only downside is that I cannot playback DSD256 which my system is capable of in Windows. Only very few DACs can work at DSD256 in Linux (for the moment).

Furthermore, in my system I have a problem with remoting the desktop properly.

[joelha]

Thanks for the great responses. Can anyone else comment on sonic differences between the different OS's?

Joel

[Chodi]

Has anyone written an OS optimizer (Fidelizer or CAD's script for Win 8, AO for WS2012) script for Win 10 yet? And if so has anyone used it with HQPlayer?

 

Fidelizer works fine in windows 10. I use it to run HQP and it is an improvement. I am experimenting with the free version. I have no idea if the paid version would bring any better results with HQP. It seems to optimize the operating system without disturbing other basic processes. For example internet will still work. There is an extreme mode but I haven't even tried that. If you haven't tried it you will find it very simple to use and it reverts to standard windows upon reboot so it does not change anything that can't be easily undone.

[sig8]

I seem to have clicks during playback. I have only noticed during PCM so far, it is like loose electrical wire in the socket type of clicking. I have it when I up-sample 44.1 to 192. I have tried poly-sinc and poly-sinc-mp so far with NS4,5,9 and TPDF.

[Chodi]

I seem to have clicks during playback. I have only noticed during PCM so far, it is like loose electrical wire in the socket type of clicking. I have it when I up-sample 44.1 to 192. I have tried poly-sinc and poly-sinc-mp so far with NS4,5,9 and TPDF.

 

I had the same problem. Clicks at very low level and random. I found a simple fix. I moved my router. It seems it was some sort of rf getting into the Taurus which is notoriously sensitive to rf. Problem solved.

[sig8]

I had the same problem. Clicks at very low level and random. I found a simple fix. I moved my router. It seems it was some sort of rf getting into the Taurus which is notoriously sensitive to rf. Problem solved.

But these clicks seem to happen only during HQP, I have been using JRiver, MinimServer with Sonore Rendu, etc. with equipment being on the same location. I have a switch on a lower shelf, router is on another floor, so don't know the reason why. Will move things around, but I think it is from HQP, and the reason might be that my PC does not have the horsepower required for the HQP. It is an Atom based CAPS Lagoon. Thanks.

[Chodi]

But these clicks seem to happen only during HQP, I have been using JRiver, MinimServer with Sonore Rendu, etc. with equipment being on the same location. I have a switch on a lower shelf, router is on another floor, so don't know the reason why. Will move things around, but I think it is from HQP, and the reason might be that my PC does not have the horsepower required for the HQP. It is an Atom based CAPS Lagoon. Thanks.

 

You can try increasing the size of your buffer but it would seem that your cpu may be responsible for the dropouts.

[Guf Gufler]

Some basic questions about the CPU useage on my 2011 mac mini 2.3 running Mountain lion. I've been changing filters and monitoring. I upsample everything to DSD 5.6 on my Big7. If i'm right the filters are the variable I should be most experimenting with? Because the 5.6 is what my big 7 goes to and the ASDM7 is a set it and forget it for my mostly rock and roll listening? Poly sinc mp is a good setting but very straining on the cpu? and the -2s is easier load to handle? From what I'm reading I should not be able to listen to anything but the -2s settings because i'll get drop outs? It's weird because some times I do get drop outs and other times I dont. Mostly I dont. I would imagine that a redbook up sample requires a different load on the cpu than upsampling dsd64? My user % in the activity monitor ranges in the 30 to 45%. Does this sound like i'm doing it right?

[ebrandon]

With Pipeline SDM you get higher total CPU load than without, if you enable it on a dual-core system you will very likely end up in these kind of situations because you don't have enough CPU cores for spreading the load and the overall load just increases.

 

Miska,

 

I was wondering what you think about Pipeline SDM on a late 2014 Mac Mini with a 2.6Ghz two core Intel i5.

 

This processor has two real cores, but emulates four cores through hyper threading. When I turn on Pipeline SDM, Activity Monitor shows the load distributed quite nicely across all four virtual cores.

 

So does hyper threading change the trade-offs about Pipeline SDM on a two core chip?

 

Thanks!

[bogi]

I seem to have clicks during playback. I have only noticed during PCM so far, it is like loose electrical wire in the socket type of clicking. I have it when I up-sample 44.1 to 192. I have tried poly-sinc and poly-sinc-mp so far with NS4,5,9 and TPDF.

 

I have found that upsampling PCM to multiples of 44.1k is more resistant against clicks than upsampling to multiples of 48k. Try 44.1k to 176.4k.

 

I don't know what for OS you are running. If Windows, you may try to change HQPlayer's priority from normal to high, you can do the change while playing a track. Then watch, if you are observing any change after maybe 5 seconds.

 

I don't know why, but my experience on previous Win7 nb as well as the current Win8 nb is, that doing PCM to DSD with poly-sinc is more resistant against clicks than upsampling in PCM domain with poly-sinc. I am upsampling everything to DSD128 so this is no issue for me. If your DAC supports that, try to do PCM to DSD. Try the poly-sinc filters containing -2s in name. That could be good compromise in your case.

 

If that didn't help, then you can try other filters than the poly-sinc family. For example minringFIR has very low demands on CPU resources. If that still doesn't help, changing or upgrading OS may help too. For example Win10 or 8.1 instead of Win7. The last thing is to upgrade motherboard or the whole computer.