Just a friendly reminder on the importance of backups

[Jud]

Interesting to read other folks' procedures. When ripping/downloading new music, the first destination is a 4TB external HDD downstairs in the main system. I then immediately copy this to both an identical second 4TB external HDD upstairs with the desktop system and a 128GB SD card. I've therefore got two backups in case of user error or drive/SD card failure.

 

Some weak points are:

 

- No remote backup; if there's a fire, I'm screwed. (The original CDs/DVDs for the rips are at home, too. Downloads could be re-done, though with HDTracks it's at their pleasure rather than an assurance as it is with the other download services I've used, e.g. Channel Classics, Blue Coast, eClassical.)

 

- There are sync tools that would surely be more automatic than old fashioned copy-and-paste.

[Boris75]

(...)

 

- There are sync tools that would surely be more automatic than old fashioned copy-and-paste.

 

For this purpose I use GoodSync which I find very easy to use, with all the set of options I need for automated backups. Also, it just copies files as standard files without storing them in fancy proprietary archive files in the way many back-up solutions do (including Norton Ghost which I used previously). This way, recuperating files from the archive is super easy for instance in cases where you just want to recover a single file without going through the almost bureaucratic hassle that recovery operations can imply with some other tools.

 

A serious downside of GoodSync is that you have to pay one license per machine and that the license is only for the current version. I have had to pay for successive upgrades.

[Music Matters]

I use SyncBack FREE - from 2BrightSparks, and it works perfectly.

[Jud]

For this purpose I use GoodSync which I find very easy to use, with all the set of options I need for automated backups. Also, it just copies files as standard files without storing them in fancy proprietary archive files in the way many back-up solutions do (including Norton Ghost which I used previously). This way, recuperating files from the archive is super easy for instance in cases where you just want to recover a single file without going through the almost bureaucratic hassle that recovery operations can imply with some other tools.

 

A serious downside of GoodSync is that you have to pay one license per machine and that the license is only for the current version. I have had to pay for successive upgrades.

 

There are many free Unix/OS X tools available, and here's one that does cost a little (though not a lot) and has security features, from the former security officer for the FreeBSD project. Smart guy, former Canadian Math Olympian, found an exploit in Intel chips that was semi-famous a few years ago. Tarsnap - Online backups for the truly paranoid

[Snowmonkey]

For Windows, SyncToy (free from Microsoft) does incremental backups and keeps files in their original form. It doesn't do automated backups, but that doesn't matter for the way I am using it (maintaining my off-site backup).

Download SyncToy 2.1 from Official Microsoft Download Centre

 

Fortunately, I don't use iTunes and as far as I can tell, neither JRiver nor MP3Tag allow you to do inadvertant mass rewrites of tags.

[Audio_ELF]

Fortunately, I don't use iTunes and as far as I can tell, neither JRiver nor MP3Tag allow you to do inadvertant mass rewrites of tags.

MP3Tag does allow mass rewrites of tags - but fortunately if you notice immediately it has an undo feature. Even if you can't rewrite tags, there are situations like deleting the wrong folder or merging two folders accidentally which RAID will not protect you against.

 

There are 10s if not 100s of situations where user error can result in both halves of a RAID1 being altered. And then of course there is corruption caused by the OS or by a virus or malware - none of which RAID will protect you from as the RAID controller will just happily replicate the corruption to the second disk.

 

All that was the point of my original comment / example which I foolishly then expanded on and which has been jumped on and turned into an anti-iTunes comment (or maybe I'm being paranoid)...

 

Eloise

[Boris75]

For Windows, SyncToy (free from Microsoft) does incremental backups and keeps files in their original form. It doesn't do automated backups, but that doesn't matter for the way I am using it (maintaining my off-site backup).

Download SyncToy 2.1 from Official Microsoft Download Centre

 

Fortunately, I don't use iTunes and as far as I can tell, neither JRiver nor MP3Tag allow you to do inadvertant mass rewrites of tags.

 

I used SyncToy for a number of years and then at some point I became unhappy with it. I can't remember exactly what happened. I have a faint memory that there were many conflict issues when they should not have arisen. Also if I remember it right, SyncToy at the time struggled with very large backups. Anyway, these now almost forgotten issues decided me to purchase GoodSync, with which I have stuck since then simply because it works flawlessly. I admit that it might possibly not be the most cost-efficient solution, but it works reliably, and I have everything set up correctly with this software, so I don't want to change anything.

[AlainGr]

I will add that a backup should be considered as "a drive that we do not use"... Meaning that it should be spinning only for the time we use it to mirror our data, or simply copy what we do not wish to loose. Then it is disconnected and put away until needed... So its lifespan is not equal to the drive we use to manage our files...

 

This is meaningful only if it is not a permanent online backup...

 

Of course, that does not discard the value of a RAID system, but the two of them could be considered as complementary...

[Allan F]

Even if you can't rewrite tags, there are situations like deleting the wrong folder or merging two folders accidentally which RAID will not protect you against.

 

There are 10s if not 100s of situations where user error can result in both halves of a RAID1 being altered. And then of course there is corruption caused by the OS or by a virus or malware - none of which RAID will protect you from as the RAID controller will just happily replicate the corruption to the second disk.

 

+1

 

Whatever the number of ways both halves of a RAID array can be altered to your detriment, the danger is real and it would more than foolish to rely solely on RAID for protection of a music library.

[Snowmonkey]

MP3Tag does allow mass rewrites of tags - but fortunately if you notice immediately it has an undo feature. Even if you can't rewrite tags, there are situations like deleting the wrong folder or merging two folders accidentally which RAID will not protect you against.

 

There are 10s if not 100s of situations where user error can result in both halves of a RAID1 being altered. And then of course there is corruption caused by the OS or by a virus or malware - none of which RAID will protect you from as the RAID controller will just happily replicate the corruption to the second disk.

 

All that was the point of my original comment / example which I foolishly then expanded on and which has been jumped on and turned into an anti-iTunes comment (or maybe I'm being paranoid)...

 

Eloise

Sorry Eloise, I wasn't looking to launch a diatribe against iTunes - just responding to your kind explanation of how you could accidentally overwrite your entire library. I must say I thought Apple tended to be more assiduous in protecting its users from their own errors. Does iTunes not have an undo feature? I know MP3Tag allows mass re-tagging, but the key word here is inadvertent. You would really have to go out of your way to rename every album in your library, rather than doing it with one incorrect keystroke.

 

I'm not sure how prone a NAS is to malware, given that they usually operate under some variant of Linux. They obviously can't protect against user-generated errors, but neither can a backup, unless you realise your error before you back up.

 

Anyway, getting back to the OP, the point I was making was that if he had been using a RAID 1 setup, he would have experienced no inconvenience at all, other than having to purchase a new hard drive.

 

To reiterate, a NAS in RAID 1 mode does not obviate the need for an off-site backup, but it is a very convenient way to guard against hard drive failure.

[Audio_ELF]

Anyway, getting back to the OP, the point I was making was that if he had been using a RAID 1 setup, he would have experienced no inconvenience at all, other than having to purchase a new hard drive.

Actually from the OPs statement (albeit on the other thread he mentioned)...

Bad day, my 3TB external WD firewire drive where I store all my music s not reacting any more at all

...it sounds to me like it's more likely the enclosure is broken rather than the drive.

 

Personally I can't see the point of RAID1 for an audio setup. A backup made at the end of each day is much better protection (IMO).

 

Eloise

 

PS overwriting a whole library is unlikely but possible. But overwriting a few tags wrongly is very possible.

[shadowlight]

Right now I have a schedule task on my main system to copy new files over to my backup system using robocopy every night.

[Allan F]

Personally I can't see the point of RAID1 for an audio setup. A backup made at the end of each day is much better protection (IMO).

 

If you are using a NAS, why not use RAID and external backup? With the low cost of drives today, the redundancy provided by RAID costs little and the protection provided by the combination is greater than either on its own.

[Audio_ELF]

If you are using a NAS, why not use RAID and external backup? With the low cost of drives today, the redundancy provided by RAID costs little and the protection provided by the combination is greater than either on its own.

Well at the end of the day I would say that yes backups are important; but is it really a life and death thing...

 

Yes dual drive arrays aren't expensive but why not an extra backup drive?

 

My suggestion...

Main library - either internal or external; could also be a NAS.

1st backup - created at the end of each session of ripping / downloading / editing metadata.

2nd backup - rotate the drive used for first backup with an offsite drive every month.

 

Eloise

 

PS I'm specifically talking about no point in RAID1 mirroring; multi-drive enclosures do have more uses.

[Snowmonkey]

Yeah, I must admit, I got my NAS so I could stream music anywhere on my home network. The data redundancy is just an extra bonus. I also love the way it has simplified my PC - with only a SSD running in the case, I have been able to disconnect the case fans and it still runs cool (and quiet).

[tne]

I have two copied hard drives in Shanghai, two copied hard drives in Berkeley, plus one in a friend's fire-proof safe in Walnut Creek. And I do not think this is overkill.

 

My challenge is keeping them all synced.

[Allan F]

PS I'm specifically talking about no point in RAID1 mirroring; multi-drive enclosures do have more uses.

 

I appreciate that is what you are saying, but RAID mirroring on a NAS can eliminate downtime and the need for a lengthy restore session in the event of a single drive failure.

[coxhaus]

A RAID 1 mirror is kind of over kill for home use and wastes 50% drive space. Most home users can afford a little downtime. A back up for home use is more practical. The problem with home back up is they are poorly managed and lacking over time.

 

If you want to make a back up and are using windows then use robocopy with /mirror option as it will keep an exact copy of your drive and is readable with any windows machine. Robocopy is a windows command and not an aftermarket piece of software.

 

If you want an automated backup system for windows then Microsoft home server is the easiest and cheapest.

[Allan F]

A RAID 1 mirror is kind of over kill for home use and wastes 50% drive space.

 

One person's overkill is another person's peace of mind. Currently, my music library consumes about 25% of one drive. Even with high res downloads I don't see running out of space for a very long time, if ever.

[Paul R]

On the same subject line...

 

Don't forget that if you are backing up Windows and Macs, or Windows and Linux- both the Mac and Linux machines are able to read and write files on the NTFS filesystem that Windows cannot. This is usually because the filename on the NTFS system is perfectly legal, but the path is too long for Windows to read.

 

A most annoying circumstance, and something to be aware of and careful about if you use multiple systems, and especially if you RIP disks on a Mac or Linux system.

 

There are always workarounds, but they are a PITA!

 

-Paul

[Audio_ELF]

I appreciate that is what you are saying, but RAID mirroring on a NAS can eliminate downtime and the need for a lengthy restore session in the event of a single drive failure.

You are right it can eliminate downtown...

 

Having said that; if you are using a mirroring tool for your backup you should be able to unplug one drive and plug in the backup drive with little to no downtime (and no need to rebuild the array which can cause considerable slowdown of an array). Ideally you should trial restore at least every 6 months to ensure your backups are readable.

 

On the other hand in a general sense rather than talking about particular users; a RAID array tends to lead people into complacency.

 

Eloise

[Snowmonkey]

A RAID 1 mirror is kind of over kill for home use and wastes 50% drive space. Most home users can afford a little downtime. A back up for home use is more practical. The problem with home back up is they are poorly managed and lacking over time.

 

If you want to make a back up and are using windows then use robocopy with /mirror option as it will keep an exact copy of your drive and is readable with any windows machine. Robocopy is a windows command and not an aftermarket piece of software.

 

If you want an automated backup system for windows then Microsoft home server is the easiest and cheapest.

 

Well any backup system "wastes" 50% of drive space, including Robocopy. The only difference with a RAID 1 setup is that it backs up immediately, instead of later. It couldn't be more easy or practical when used with a NAS. Just slip in a second drive and forget it's there. If you have a drive failure, the first you are likely to know about it is when you get an email from your NAS. Yet again, I emphasise you should still keep an off-site backup, using Robocopy or whatever else takes your fancy, so I guess you could argue you are wasting 2/3 of your drive space.

[Boris75]

You are right it can eliminate downtown...

 

 

This sounds pretty dangerous '-)

[Audio_ELF]

Well any backup system "wastes" 50% of drive space, including Robocopy. The only difference with a RAID 1 setup is that it backs up immediately, instead of later. It couldn't be more easy or practical when used with a NAS. Just slip in a second drive and forget it's there. If you have a drive failure, the first you are likely to know about it is when you get an email from your NAS. Yet again, I emphasise you should still keep an off-site backup, using Robocopy or whatever else takes your fancy, so I guess you could argue you are wasting 2/3 of your drive space.

Yes but RAID1 ISN'T a backup in any sense. I know it's arguing semantics but it is a fact.

 

Eloise

[Boris75]

I have two copied hard drives in Shanghai, two copied hard drives in Berkeley, plus one in a friend's fire-proof safe in Walnut Creek. And I do not think this is overkill.

 

My challenge is keeping them all synced.

 

This is a serious back-up strategy. Looks pretty safe.