Putting a HiRez streaming solution together that plays every file: with some old gear...

[wappinghigh]

Ok.. Are we *nearly* there..(yet)?

 

Chris mentioned the frustrations of not being able to play "that" (dsd) file or "this" 24/192 file where you want around the home in the CA TV Episode3

 

So is it now possible to do this via DLNA using JRiver/Minimserver/and a bunch of old DAC's that might be lying around? To cobble something together.. say by adding a few of the new Sonore products?…

 

Current gear available:

 

LinnDS streamer up to 24/192 PCM compatible

Oppo 105

Resonessence Invicta DSD capable USB DAC

Benchmark DAC1 (non usb)

NorthStar 192Mk2 with i2S

A Raspberry pi (current build)

Various Mac's and PC's

Various amplification. Rotel separates etc with line level autosensing..

Solid gigabit network with every room Cat5e

 

Minimserver already running beautifully on a QNAP

 

Plug Player control point

 

Simple Goal:

 

To be able to play every file, at any location. DSD and up to 24/192, multichannel and stereo. I've seen the posts on automatic settings for this in JRiver.. obviously I would only want the multichannel going to the Oppo.. and I don't care if DSD gets converted to PCM for DAC's that can't handle DSD files natively (I only have the one)

 

So how do I do this?

Do I get a different combo of Sonore products? If so which ones?

And would all these be able to be linked up via plug player and streaming from MinimServer? From JRiver…??

And if I need to convert DSD on the fly, do I do this in the Sonore hardware?

 

I'm excited that I could be on the verge of being able to put something like this together, but how to make it happen? And would it be practical?

[Cebolla]

Unfortunately, if you require gapless support, the only UPnP/DLNA control point app you can use is BubbleUPnP and that is only available on Android. Currently the only way to control gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA streaming from an iDevice is to do it indirectly by using a remote control app for a gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA control point application running on a computer, eg JRemote on the iDevice controlling JRiver running on a networked computer.

[Audio_ELF]

Unfortunately, if you require gapless support, the only UPnP/DLNA control point app you can use is BubbleUPnP and that is only available on Android. Currently the only way to control gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA streaming from an iDevice is to do it indirectly by using a remote control app for a gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA control point application running on a computer, eg JRemote on the iDevice controlling JRiver running on a networked computer.

Kinsky offers gapless on iOS if the hardware supports it. Also apps such as Naim and Cambridge Audio control points.

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

You can get close - very close - with JRMC, but it is still not seamless and perfect. And it requires a computer running JRMC at each location. For DSD, that computer needs enough CPU power to be able to transcode seamlessly.

 

DNLA is still not anywhere near capable of this (IMNSHO) because of little issues like file formats and gapless playback. Other folks might have different opinions. I thing a good NAS and small capable computers on the spot, like a Mac Mini, are the best bet for that right now. That works pretty darn well.

 

-Paul

[Cebolla]

Kinsky offers gapless on iOS if the hardware supports it. Also apps such as Naim and Cambridge Audio control points.

 

Eloise

Sure, but aren't they proprietary and so not true UPnP/DLNA control points? I believe the OP required an iOS UPnP/DLNA control point to use with a UPnP/DLNA renderer like the Sonore (which doesn't come with its own control app).

[Audio_ELF]

Sure, but aren't they proprietary and so not true UPnP/DLNA control points? I believe the OP required an iOS UPnP/DLNA control point to use with a UPnP/DLNA renderer like the Sonore (which doesn't come with its own control app).

Yes and no; Linn developed extensions to UPnP which they put into the public domain to allow gapless playback.

 

http://www.openhome.org/wiki/OhMedia

 

Eloise

[Cebolla]

They are still Linn extensions - I don't think the Linn app itself yet supports the 'accepted' UPnP SetNextAVTransportURI action for gapless UPnP rendering, so as you say the renderer will have to support Linn extensions for gapless with that app.

 

There is the BubbleUPnP Server application (NOT to be confused with the Android BubbleUPnP app) that is supposed to clone a UPnP renderer to make that appear on the network as a Linn extension supporting one, but unfortunately the process doesn't yet extend to gapless support.

[Audio_ELF]

There is the BubbleUPnP Server application (NOT to be confused with the Android BubbleUPnP app) that is supposed to clone a UPnP renderer to make that appear on the network as a Linn extension supporting one,

I've used it... And yes it works...

but unfortunately the process doesn't yet extend to gapless support.

You're correct that gapless doesn't work though.

 

Eloise

[Cebolla]

Yes. My main use of it is for its current playlist caching ability, so I don't need to keep the mobile device running the control point app switched on. Gapless not so important in those long party playlists!

[wappinghigh]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I can see there are several other CA's thinking on the same wavelenght!!

 

I'm looking forward to the CA review of the Sonore Orbiter. Running this new GUI set up that has been leaked on another thread.. the one that allows it to morph into a DLNA renderer.

 

This is the thread for anyone who is interested: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/need-advise-new-streamer-18009/index3.html

 

Chris obviously has all the file format types to test this..

 

So gapless on the software side isn't quite there?? I don't get this because Jesus says his players are gapless...

[wappinghigh]

You can get close - very close - with JRMC, but it is still not seamless and perfect. And it requires a computer running JRMC at each location. For DSD, that computer needs enough CPU power to be able to transcode seamlessly.

 

 

Thanks Paul.. have you seen what Sonore have been up to? .. Follow the link to the thread above.. it appears they have put DLNA capabilities into their Orbiter and Mini Server.

 

l don't think they need JRiver running out at the zones.. I just wish someone at Sonore would set up a multiroom test lab. Get all the possible file formats. Then put this all together running Jriver on a main PC or Minimserver on a NAS and tell us all that it works…

[Cebolla]

So gapless on the software side isn't quite there?? I don't get this because Jesus says his players are gapless...

AFAIK Sonore don't supply a controller app with their devices, so you have to use your own (ie it's not a Sonore problem). Both the UPnP/DLNA renderer AND the UPnP/DLNA control point software need to support gapless for it to work.

[wappinghigh]

It kind of is a Sonore problem… because what's the point of having gapless hardware, if there is no gapless software?

[wappinghigh]

The problem here (as I see it).. hence my OP..the problem is it "appears" we now have a solution to do this as I describe, but somebody needs to show us how to do it!!! Lay it all out for us as I say - and put it on a youtube or something. Can I be so bold as to suggest this might be the streaming hardware manufacturer? It would then be a win/ win. Yes: you appear to have a great solution.. but tell us how to do it. Make it child's play..

[Audio_ELF]

The problem here (as I see it).. hence my OP..the problem is it "appears" we now have a solution to do this as I describe, but somebody needs to show us how to do it!!! Lay it all out for us as I say - and put it on a youtube or something. Can I be so bold as to suggest this might be the streaming hardware manufacturer? It would then be a win/ win. Yes: you appear to have a great solution.. but tell us how to do it. Make it child's play..

The way I see it... This is the role of the dealer. Now where a company sells direct THEY take on that role.

 

I suppose that Sonore recommending BubbleUPnP on Android is really no more an issue than Naim and Cyrus providing iOS apps and no Android app.

[wappinghigh]

^Well sure.. Agreed. But where does it say on the Sonore website to specifically use BubbleUPnP on Android? And that this is the only way to do it gapless? Or generally how to set *any* of this up? That's the fundamental problem. Love to use the products..but geez.. how about some specific instructions how to put it all together and a few demo's to prove to me that it works...

[wappinghigh]

I've got an Android lying around as well.. I'll give BubbleUPnP a shot… of course we still have that rather irritating matter with Oppo not being UPnP compliant with DSD…

[vortecjr]

Ok.. Are we *nearly* there..(yet)?

 

Chris mentioned the frustrations of not being able to play "that" (dsd) file or "this" 24/192 file where you want around the home in the CA TV Episode3

 

So is it now possible to do this via DLNA using JRiver/Minimserver/and a bunch of old DAC's that might be lying around? To cobble something together.. say by adding a few of the new Sonore products?…

 

Current gear available:

 

LinnDS streamer up to 24/192 PCM compatible

Oppo 105

Resonessence Invicta DSD capable USB DAC

Benchmark DAC1 (non usb)

NorthStar 192Mk2 with i2S

A Raspberry pi (current build)

Various Mac's and PC's

Various amplification. Rotel separates etc with line level autosensing..

Solid gigabit network with every room Cat5e

 

Minimserver already running beautifully on a QNAP

 

Plug Player control point

 

Simple Goal:

 

To be able to play every file, at any location. DSD and up to 24/192, multichannel and stereo. I've seen the posts on automatic settings for this in JRiver.. obviously I would only want the multichannel going to the Oppo.. and I don't care if DSD gets converted to PCM for DAC's that can't handle DSD files natively (I only have the one)

 

So how do I do this?

Do I get a different combo of Sonore products? If so which ones?

And would all these be able to be linked up via plug player and streaming from MinimServer? From JRiver…??

And if I need to convert DSD on the fly, do I do this in the Sonore hardware?

 

I'm excited that I could be on the verge of being able to put something like this together, but how to make it happen? And would it be practical?

 

I don't have a single customer trying to do all this as described....

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Unfortunately, if you require gapless support, the only UPnP/DLNA control point app you can use is BubbleUPnP and that is only available on Android. Currently the only way to control gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA streaming from an iDevice is to do it indirectly by using a remote control app for a gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA control point application running on a computer, eg JRemote on the iDevice controlling JRiver running on a networked computer.

 

This is wrong. We have recently qualified an iOS app for the Rendu in addition to the long standing J River / J Remote combination.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Kinsky offers gapless on iOS if the hardware supports it. Also apps such as Naim and Cambridge Audio control points.

 

Eloise

 

The Linn, Naim and Cambridge apps do not find the Sonore Rendu on the network. I have not tried them with the Sonic Orbiter yet.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Yes and no; Linn developed extensions to UPnP which they put into the public domain to allow gapless playback.

 

OhMedia - OpenHome

 

Eloise

 

My customers are really looking for something simple like LMS. This solution is hard to explain and support and just complicates things for me for no reason.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I can see there are several other CA's thinking on the same wavelenght!!

 

I'm looking forward to the CA review of the Sonore Orbiter. Running this new GUI set up that has been leaked on another thread.. the one that allows it to morph into a DLNA renderer.

 

This is the thread for anyone who is interested: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/need-advise-new-streamer-18009/index3.html

 

Chris obviously has all the file format types to test this..

 

So gapless on the software side isn't quite there?? I don't get this because Jesus says his players are gapless...

 

We have gapless playback prescription for the Rendu and the Sonic Orbiter and you just need to follow them...

 

Jesus R

[wappinghigh]

I don't have a single customer trying to do all this as described....

 

Jesus R

 

So what..? I'm trying to help you man.. to open up your market to a much wider audience.. UPnP is *all* about multiroom… and with multiroom you get to sell more of your product.. multiple steaming devices to the same (recurring) customer…

[vortecjr]

Thanks Paul.. have you seen what Sonore have been up to? .. Follow the link to the thread above.. it appears they have put DLNA capabilities into their Orbiter and Mini Server.

 

l don't think they need JRiver running out at the zones.. I just wish someone at Sonore would set up a multiroom test lab. Get all the possible file formats. Then put this all together running Jriver on a main PC or Minimserver on a NAS and tell us all that it works…

 

Chris already did this in his review of the Rendu..

 

Jesus R

[wappinghigh]

….Why *not* a bunch of Orbiters/mini servers/redu's all spread around the house…. ???