M2Tech HiFace Mavericks problem

[juliocat]

M2tech driver issue is starting to be like a really bad soapbox opera

[DomieMic65]

M2tech driver issue is starting to be like a really bad soapbox opera

I am also upset with the delay but from the other hand we are sometimew getting a little "bad"...

I remember the relatively nasty things that were written about Mytek until they update their driver..

Some patience isn't a bad thing... M2Tech is a small company afetr all and it gave us -me for sure- a lot of pleasant music moments!!!!!

I hope they don't make me regret saying all these though....

[nieldm]

This is the second time they have blamed someone else, very much not the behaviour of a professional company.

[BobP63]

Below is the latest from M2Tech:

 

 

[per l'italiano, scorrere il messaggio]

 

Dear friends,

 

as usual, some of you are receiving this e-mail for the first time. Of course, there is a problem with our first generation products (hiFace, hiFace Evo, Young and Vaughan) and Mavericks. We're developing a new driver and as the process takes time, we regularly give news about that to all users waiting for the new driver.

 

We made some advancements and need to solve some problems in the way the driver talks with the kernel. To speed up things, we have hired an external consultant who's helping us. This is necessary as Apple gives no support to small companies like ours.

 

I'd also give you some more information about the reason why we're taking so long to release the driver while some competitors who use our technology already have a driver. The fact is that the person who developed our previous drivers is the same person who developed the present 10.9 drivers for the competitors. He got a lot of money from us (and I mean A LOT) for the drivers and their maintainance, and spent more than 6 months to wrote them. Then he recently disappeared to make a company of his own and refused to support us anymore, with the clear purpose of having an advantage in competition. He's supplying our competitors are they have now become his customers (so, double damage). He was so fast to release their driver as he has all source codes he neve gave us. That's why we're taking some time to rewrite it from the scratch.

 

We're not leaving anybody back, we just need a little time and your patience to do our job in the best way.

 

Gentili clienti,

 

come per le percedenti mail, sicuramente per alcuni di voi questa è la prima risposta alla propria mail di protesta o richiesta supporto riguardo ai problemi con il Mavericks. Alcuni nostri prodotti della prima generazione (hiFace, hiFace Evo, Young e Vaughan), hanno un problema di compatibilità con il Mavericks. Per questo motivo stiamo sviluppando un nuovo driver e ci siamo presi il compito di informare regolarmente i clienti che lo attendono.

 

Abbiamo ottenuto alcuni progressi, ma dobbiamo ancora risolvere alcuni problemi legati al modo in cui il driver colloquia con il kernel del sistema operativo. Per accelerare le cose, abbiamo assunto un consulente esterno che ci aiuterà. Ciò è necessario anche in quanto Apple non da alcun supporto alle piccole aziende come la nostra.

 

Vorrei anche darvi qualche ulteriore informazione sul perchè ci mettiamo così tanto per rilasciare il driver mentre i nostri concorrenti che usano la nostra tecnologia lo hanno già disponibile. Il fatto è che il consulente che ha scritto i nostri precedenti driver è la stessa persona che ha scritto l'attuale driver per 10.9 per i concorrenti. Questo signore ha ricevuto tanti soldi (e intendo dire TANTI) per i driver e la loro manutenzione, impiegando più di sei mesi per scrivere il driver, per poi scomparire e aprire una sua azienda nostra concorrente. Ha servito i nostri concorrenti perché sono diventati suoi clienti (doppio danno). E' stato così veloce a rilasciare la nuova versione del driver perché ha i codici sorgenti, che non ha mai consegnato a noi. Per questo motivo noi siamo costretti a riscrivere il driver da capo.

 

Non vogliamo abbandonare alcun cliente, abbiamo solo bisogno di un po' di tempo e della vostra pazienza per lavorare nelle condizioni migliori.

 

Ing. Fernando Marco Manunta

M2Tech Srl

Via Giuntini 13/L1

56023 Navacchio di Cascina (Pi)

http://www.m2tech.biz

 

Visita il nuovo blog M2Tech a M2TECH Srl Blog

[nieldm]

I am becoming a broken record on this, but then so is Mr. Manunta.

 

Marco, if you are reading this; you got it right a couple of weeks ago when you said :

 

"We have reasons for our slow response to the new OSX appearance, reasons which are probably of no interest for you and which may sound as excuses. So I won't bother you enumerating them."

 

You have since spent a lot of column inches enumerating (sic) your problems and they do indeed look, smell and sound like excuses. Any problems you have with your development process are your problem. If you didn't have a tight enough contract with a key developer, once again, your problem. I, for one, don't want to know about it.

 

To pile blame on this external developer (who isn't here to give his side of any story) is, to put it mildly, unprofessional, and simply casts your entire company in a very poor light indeed. If this developer has behaved in the way you describe, if I were you I would be talking to a lawyer, not talking to us about it via email. It probably also unwise to make it clear to your client base how much you rely on a single external individual in such a key area.

 

I strongly suggest that the next email you send out contains something a little more concrete than the lists of excuses in your previous two emails.

 

MNX

[4est]

Spoken like one who has never run a small business!

 

If it is such a big deal, just roll back your OS and go on with it. As to some of your gripe, as I recall at the time Gordon Rankin's Streamlength was the only other USB code out there like it. You are acting like coders are a commodity item.

I am becoming a broken record on this, but then so is Mr. Manunta.

 

Marco, if you are reading this; you got it right a couple of weeks ago when you said :

 

"We have reasons for our slow response to the new OSX appearance, reasons which are probably of no interest for you and which may sound as excuses. So I won't bother you enumerating them."

 

You have since spent a lot of column inches enumerating (sic) your problems and they do indeed look, smell and sound like excuses. Any problems you have with your development process are your problem. If you didn't have a tight enough contract with a key developer, once again, your problem. I, for one, don't want to know about it.

 

To pile blame on this external developer (who isn't here to give his side of any story) is, to put it mildly, unprofessional, and simply casts your entire company in a very poor light indeed. If this developer has behaved in the way you describe, if I were you I would be talking to a lawyer, not talking to us about it via email. It probably also unwise to make it clear to your client base how much you rely on a single external individual in such a key area.

 

I strongly suggest that the next email you send out contains something a little more concrete than the lists of excuses in your previous two emails.

 

MNX

[nieldm]

Spoken like one who has never run a small business!

 

If it is such a big deal, just roll back your OS and go on with it. As to some of your gripe, as I recall at the time Gordon Rankin's Streamlength was the only other USB code out there like it. You are acting like coders are a commodity item.

 

I don't believe I implied anything of the sort, quite simply that I have no interest whatsoever in the trials and tribulations of M2Tech's internal programming team and I don't think it's appropriate that such excuses are thrown out. As a contract coder (via my own small business), one sitting here currently parsing data being received from a thermostat into a Crestron processor, I would like to think I am not a commodity.

 

If his words made you think "oh, well, that's ok then", that's good and you are a far nicer person than I am. Personally my viewpoint is that I have paid for one of his products which, in my view negligently, isn't working.

 

Finally, what is and isn't a "big deal" for someone depends on a lot of different factors. If rolling back my OS were an option, I would already have done it. It would not, however, change my views on M2Tech or Mr Manunta's communiqués.

[abolit]

"rolling back os " is not an option here. My vaughan dac crashes all the time when goes to standby mode on OS x 10.7 & 10.8. And I'm not the only customer who is experiencing this problem.

M2TECH company lost their OS X key developer who is now hired by Chrod Electronics. Based on my correspondence with Marco, they hired some intern not to pay him much and that guy does not seem to know what he's doing.

Last words from Marco were "We're stuck with the driver development, sorry"

 

 

 

I don't believe I implied anything of the sort, quite simply that I have no interest whatsoever in the trials and tribulations of M2Tech's internal programming team and I don't think it's appropriate that such excuses are thrown out. As a contract coder (via my own small business), one sitting here currently parsing data being received from a thermostat into a Crestron processor, I would like to think I am not a commodity.

 

If his words made you think "oh, well, that's ok then", that's good and you are a far nicer person than I am. Personally my viewpoint is that I have paid for one of his products which, in my view negligently, isn't working.

 

Finally, what is and isn't a "big deal" for someone depends on a lot of different factors. If rolling back my OS were an option, I would already have done it. It would not, however, change my views on M2Tech or Mr Manunta's communiqués.

[Boris75]

Back in April-May, I hesitated a lot between buying a Benchmark DAC2 and a M2Tech Young+Palmer combo. When I read this thread, I feel relieved that I went for the Benchmark. At a general level, there is something to be said for driverless DACs.

[mjb]

Back in April-May, I hesitated a lot between buying a Benchmark DAC2 and a M2Tech Young+Palmer combo. When I read this thread, I feel relieved that I went for the Benchmark. At a general level, there is something to be said for driverless DACs.

Umm, there's a $1800 price difference! Hardly comparable really. Although I agree a driverless DAC has a lot going for it.

[Boris75]

Umm, there's a $1800 price difference! Hardly comparable really. Although I agree a driverless DAC has a lot going for it.

 

In Europe, the Benchmark DAC2 fetches for €2200 and the M2Tech Young+Palmer combo for €1800. The difference is €400 which is equivalent to $300.

[nieldm]

"rolling back os " is not an option here. My vaughan dac crashes all the time when goes to standby mode on OS x 10.7 & 10.8. And I'm not the only customer who is experiencing this problem.

M2TECH company lost their OS X key developer who is now hired by Chrod Electronics. Based on my correspondence with Marco, they hired some intern not to pay him much and that guy does not seem to know what he's doing.

Last words from Marco were "We're stuck with the driver development, sorry"

 

Manunta actually said the following ...

 

"Then he recently disappeared to make a company of his own and refused to support us anymore, with the clear purpose of having an advantage in competition" and went on to say "he has all source codes he never gave us"

 

...in an earlier email. So either this lone gunman has now ditched his "own company" and joined Chord full time or, maybe more likely, is simply contracting to Chord in the way he contracted to M2Tech.

 

None of this passes even the most olfactorily impaired sniff test. Using terms like "disappeared" and "refused" sounds to me like there is likely more than one side to this particular story. At worst, this guy is a total d-bag who simply broke his contract (assumption here that one existed) jumped ship, stiffed M2Tech by having relevant source code that wasn't provided to them (i.e. stole it) and finally ignored any contractual terms related to ongoing support.

 

Even in this armageddon scenario (the one, according to Manunta, that has come to pass), any professional organisation protects itself via ensuring that that there is no such single person risk and ensuring that contractual terms are solid enough to ensure relatively simple legal recourse to source code (all source code should be the property of the employer).

 

It would be interesting to hear from this rogue contractor to get the other side of the story, but that wouldn't get anyone what they want, namely functioning products from M2Tech. If Manunta has a further update to the effect of "we don't have a clue" he should share it asap, with a recommendation (offer?) to all of his customers as to how the situation might be resolved. It's probably not too late for him to retain some goodwill, but if he lets this drag on any longer, the reputation of his company will be totally blown.

[Naggots]

After being on the receiving end of unscrupulous software designers in the past I say name and shame the individual so he/she doesn't do it again if this really happened.

 

It's not rocket surgery to backwards engineer a driver from the codes Chord have surely....... Give it to a 15yo software hacker and bingo.

 

Damage is already done to M2Tech, it's how they conduct themselves that will make/break them. Go down fighting will save face at least.

 

I have a worthless $4k dac until this gets sorted ..........

[greentrumpet]

Ouch. I'm lucky only being in for whatever the HiFace cost but it's been a lot longer than a couple of weeks so I'm unlikely to buy a HiFace 2 and will probably go for a Stello U3 or Audiophileo 2. I guess Marco will lose a lot of business but hope you guys with useless dacs get sorted very quickly. There seems very little encouraging information coming from M2 Tech.

[Boris75]

(...) will probably go for a Stello U3 or Audiophileo 2.

 

I used an Audiophilleo 2 for a couple of years, fed electrically with an AQVOX, and was very pleased with the sonic result. I can wholeheartedly recommend this combo.

[RichardHolbrook]

Damage is already done to M2Tech, it's how they conduct themselves that will make/break them. Go down fighting will save face at least.

 

I have a worthless $4k dac until this gets sorted ..........

 

I fully sympathize with you -- I have a useless Human Audio Tabla, which is a bridge that utilizes the M2Tech drivers, and I just bought it a couple of months ago. When this all started there was a lot of talk about reaching out to companies that use the M2Tech drivers to get them to put pressure on M2Tech to speed things up. I've reached out to Human Audio repeatedly, and all they do is (over the internet) shrug their shoulders and say they can't do anything. So it seems to me that you're right, the damage is already done to M2Tech . . . but beyond this the damage is done to ever single company that utilizes M2Tech's drivers and whose products now don't work. There was on one thread a while back a list of these companies . . . I think we should all keep writing to these companies letting them know that their reputations are suffering due to M2Tech and they owe it to their purchasers to try to find a solution.

[nieldm]

I am sure most of you have already received this, but just in case...this hot off the wires.

 

 

Dear customers,

 

I wish I had good news for you in this Christmas day. Alas, it's not the case. We're still fighting against OSX renitence to allow us to open a pipeline to the USB port where our device is connected to, in order to stream data from the kernel. It's some subtle non-compiance with the obscure OSX kernel, as we're following Apple's official literature: our driver is able to create te interface to the kernel, it recognizes the device and is able to identify the endpoint for bulk data transfer. But when we open the pipeline to that endpoint, the system says that the pipeline cannot be initialized. It's very strange! Anyway, we now have two people working on the driver: one is in Italy and won't stop working during Christmas holidays, while the other is in a foreign Country and he's not even Christian, so he has no holidays to spend now... We hope their joint efforts will give us a beta driver pretty soon.

May I wish you a nice Christmas, with no music, maybe, but with all the love of your relatives and friends!

 

Marco Manunta

[BobP63]

Very disappointing how this is playing out, M2Tech continues to set the bar lower with each status update.

[nieldm]

Very disappointing how this is playing out, M2Tech continues to set the bar lower with each status update.

 

You are correct, as was Naggots above when he said that what will make or break M2Tech now is how they conduct themselves going forward. I don't believe the situation to be beyond remedy, but they are going to have to pull some kind of rabbit out of a hat to retain any kind of reputation.

 

It might be simpler for them, for example, rather than mucking about with coding a driver for "legacy" products, to offer all owner of those products a very significant discount on the driverless upgrades.

 

Just a thought.

[BobP63]

It might be simpler for them, for example, rather than mucking about with coding a driver for "legacy" products, to offer all owner of those products a very significant discount on the driverless upgrades.

 

Just a thought.

 

That's not really an option given many of those affected, myself included, are using Non-M2Tech equipment. My Metrum Hex DAC uses an M2Tech USB interface and according to Metrum Acoustics some 15 other companies rely on M2Tech's OEM boards as well.

 

I've been in contact with Metrum Acoustics several times regarding this situation; unfortunately they're still relying on M2Tech to solely resolve this situation stating it impacts too many other companies for M2Tech not to fix it.

 

I'd like to know the real story behind this developer fiasco. If Chord actually hired the developer M2Tech was using did they play a witting part in hobbling many of their competitors, or were they simply just being responsive to their customers? Likely a little of both, but that's just speculation on my part.

 

In any event it surely shows the perils of single sourcing key components or resources.

[ilmonstro]

At the moment i still can use my Young DAC since i didn't update my Mac Mini to Mavericks. I only use it as a music server. But i won't buy anything from M2tech again because i can't stand companies with bad end user support. My next DAC or USB Interface will be a model that doesn't need a driver under OSX.

[rooob]

Anyone thinking of buying a Hiface 2 should be ok as this is based on the XMOS chipset that should not require drivers under OSX.

[Conte_Oliver]

Yes it is ok.

g

[slartibartfast]

I got a Metrum Hex also. Fortunately my Mac Mini still runs on an older OS, so no problems at home at least.

Unfortunately I was planning to use a Macbook Pro as a music server while staying in my commuting home- and this Macbook is running Mavericks of course...

 

I am seriously considering getting a Weiss Int202 Firewire interface now and going for an AES/EBU connection (which is supposed to sound even better than USB). Does anybody have some experience with the Weiss interface, by chance? Not that I am too thrilled to spend $650 extra (+an additional $220 for the AES/EBU card) just to have a reliable connection.

[BobP63]

I got a Metrum Hex also. Fortunately my Mac Mini still runs on an older OS, so no problems at home at least.

Unfortunately I was planning to use a Macbook Pro as a music server while staying in my commuting home- and this Macbook is running Mavericks of course...

 

I am seriously considering getting a Weiss Int202 Firewire interface now and going for an AES/EBU connection (which is supposed to sound even better than USB). Does anybody have some experience with the Weiss interface, by chance? Not that I am too thrilled to spend $650 extra (+an additional $220 for the AES/EBU card) just to have a reliable connection.

 

 

Another, less expensive, option would be to use an Audiophilleo 2 to input SPDIF into the Hex, which is my current arrangement. I purchased my Hex fully loaded, i.e. larger RCA transformers, AES/EBU Module and USB. I wanted the AES/EBU for future options and the USB as a backup in the event my AP2 ever had issues. You can refer to the Six Moons review of the Hex to get their take on how the AP2 compared to the Hex's USB option, in that review they gave the AP2 a slight edge over USB. The AP2 will also provides integer mode operation as well which the Six Moons review did not utilize, if they had I'd imagine the edge the AP2 held over the USB input would have been even greater.