Izotope SRC

[Jud]

Completely off topic, but Gene Krupa does something similar in the excellent film Ball of Fire (directed by Howard Hawks, with Barbara Stanwyck and Gary Cooper). Here it is on YouTube:

 

 

(It's in the encore/reprise at the end of the clip.)

 

--David

 

More OT, but I can't resist the opportunity to note that the sort of "popping" percussion you can't quite place in the Beach Boys' wonderful "God Only Knows" from Pet Sounds (which I believe Paul McCartney may have referred to at one time as the best song ever written) was of course Brian Wilson's idea of just the right sound: him tapping on an empty Coke can.

[Jud]

seriously: is this test tones approach anything more than a very simplified attempt at evaluating something way more complex? :-/

 

I mean: if I want to show how good my Tivoli Model Two sounds... all I have to do is play some electronic music. but if I play, instead, just a baroque solo cello... =:-/ (not even thinking about a full orchestra :-p )

 

Hi, pl_svn (can I call you "pl" for short?).

 

I would say about test tones that they can point out some types of potential problems, as levandier mentioned with regard to test tones indicating one would have to be conscious when designing filters of avoiding beats at 15kHz and below at least. But real music is of course more complex, so I would guess it would be more difficult to design a filter that deals well with music in its many forms than to design one that would look good on these simple test tones.

[orgel]

... Brian Wilson's idea of just the right sound: him tapping on an empty Coke can.

 

I went to high school with a very good oboe player (now a long-time pro) who could play tunes by tapping on her teeth with a Bic pen.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled SRC. Thanks to levandier, Superdad, and all you other folks who've enabled me to get a handle on something that's just a wee bit over my head.

 

--David

[pl_svn]

Hi, pl_svn (can I call you "pl" for short?).

 

sure

 

so I would guess it would be more difficult to design a filter that deals well with music in its many forms than to design one that would look good on these simple test tones.

 

then... the "best of both worlds" filter looks very good on paper and sounds (on my system) nothing more than ok :-/

 

(OT: listening now to "Dream Attic". I'd say he, or his sound engineer, is deeply in love with the "Naim sound" :-p)

[Michael Cullinan]

Im just going to stick with the onboard filters. I can't really better them. I like the lower prering but it sounds a tad flat.. And the .65 sounds too forward. It was fun though!

[Superdad]

Im just going to stick with the onboard filters. I can't really better them. I like the lower prering but it sounds a tad flat.. And the .65 sounds too forward. It was fun though!

 

As they say in Vegas: "Thanks for playing and best of luck." Looks like you have a very nice system. I hope your room allows you to get the best from it.

Cheers,

ALEX

[pl_svn]

using "Burning Man" (acoustic version), "The Snow Goose" and "The Tic-Tac Man" (plus Laurie Anderson's "Bodies in Motion" and "Statue of Liberty") tonight I came to:

 

 

Steepness: 7

Filter max length: 1.800.000 (works fine. but with high steepness values sounds "dull")

Cutoff freq: 1,00

Anti-aliasing: 200

Pre-ringing: 0,35 (I feel lower values do add "life")

 

 

maybe a tad too much on the bright side (Cutoff freq is, I believe, the culprit here) but… a lot of life

only tried 2x up sampling of redbook files

 

 

not at all sure tomorrow I'll still like these settings. in the while… happy to hear from other NOS DAC owners ;-)

 

 

'nite

[jamesg11]

More OT, but I can't resist the opportunity to note that the sort of "popping" percussion you can't quite place in the Beach Boys' wonderful "God Only Knows" from Pet Sounds (which I believe Paul McCartney may have referred to at one time as the best song ever written) was of course Brian Wilson's idea of just the right sound: him tapping on an empty Coke can.

Yeh, but I'm convinced this production-guru halo has blinded us to his real musical quality, the early stuff, peaking with "Don't Worry Baby". See Dave Marsh's incisive analysis.

 

BTW, has there been a Mytek 'best settings' suggestion yet?

[Liam]

For my non NOS dac the m2tech Young fed via hiface2 direct/integer Mode1 x2 upsampling I find below very good indeed. I use a variety of music to assess...Alison Krauss- Now That I've Found You, Archaica-Gori Women's Choir, Give-White EP, Scottish Chamber Orchestra- Various, Szerying Plays Kreisler (a real tester for any unpleasantness especially in the top end), various piano and acoustic guitar and mandolin. I have arrived at these settings that appeal very much to me and might well appeal to somebody especially with a non NOS dac. I find that these settings leave the 'air' through, but sweeten the top end. All the rest follow through down to deepest base, which is tuneful and articulate.

[pl_svn]

For my non NOS dac the m2tech Young fed via hiface2

 

the M2Tech Young, afaik, is not at all a NOS DAC (nor any M2Tech model) ;-)

 

 

EDIT

confirmed: "The synergy between the DAC IC and the custom oversampler allows for exceptionally low noise floor and THD"

[Superdad]

the M2Tech Young, afaik, is not at all a NOS DAC (nor any M2Tech model) ;-)

 

You got fooled--the way I have several times here--by his use of the double negative. He said "non NOS DAC," meaning to say he is NOT using and NOS DAC. Perhaps he felt compelled to say it that way because a few of us loud-mouths in this thread ARE using NOS DACs.

It does seem to be the case that preferred iZotope settings are definitely dependent upon the DAC. And to some extent the s/w filter combines with the h/w filters (less so the higher one first upsamples in s/w).

 

Weather here is too nice today for forums--even too nice to sit and listen to music--so outside I go to play with the kids. Oh, but first I have get them off THEIR computers!

[pl_svn]

You got fooled--the way I have several times here--by his use of the double negative. He said "non NOS DAC," meaning to say he is NOT using and NOS DAC.

 

... whooops, sorry: read (and wrote) too fast :-(

 

apologies

 

 

Weather here is too nice today for forums--even too nice to sit and listen to music--so outside I go to play with the kids. Oh, but first I have get them off THEIR computers!

 

:-p

 

rainy day, here, so... Bach's Matthäus Passion by Philippe Herrewege :-)

[elcorso]

For my non NOS dac the m2tech Young fed via hiface2 direct/integer Mode1 x2 upsampling I find below very good indeed. I use a variety of music to assess...Alison Krauss- Now That I've Found You, Archaica-Gori Women's Choir, Give-White EP, Scottish Chamber Orchestra- Various, Szerying Plays Kreisler (a real tester for any unpleasantness especially in the top end), various piano and acoustic guitar and mandolin. I have arrived at these settings that appeal very much to me and might well appeal to somebody especially with a non NOS dac. I find that these settings leave the 'air' through, but sweeten the top end. All the rest follow through down to deepest base, which is tuneful and articulate.

 

Nice settings for an non NOS DAC. I read from the DAC manufacturer web page the filters are set for minimum pre-echo, that's why you can go to 1.0 on Pre-Ringing. In my up sampling DAC I need from 0.60 to 0.78 (music dependent). In very close miking like some lady jazz singers, when the lady get so close that make distort (or excite) the mike, a very common issue, I need 0.60 On non 'distorted' recordings I can go to 1.0 also.

 

Roch

[vk80]

Anyone up for another round?

 

http://www.auralic.com/download/flexible_filter_mode.pdf

 

[Liam]

Well I have being playing around some more.

 

I tried these settings, but found some 's' sounds suppressed and air went missing.

 

Then I tried these. I was amazed how much difference such a seemingly small adjustment made. The missing elements were back and the sound is without nasties. Previously, with my settings just above this post there was still an element of steeliness apparent in violin and mandolin 'E' string and guitar strummed near the bridge on longer listening.

 

These work well with my Mac Mini/ifi USB Power/Hiface2/m2tech Young/Palmer PSU. The digital cable is a Nordost Silver Shadow.

 

The pre ringing is still set on 1.00 for the m2tech, which has a pre ringing filter built in. Upsampling is x2.

 

I don't know, from my very limited knowledge, if these settings make technically correct sense or not, but sound good to use for the foreseeable. Comments welcome in hope of learning more.

[Liam]

It is evident from the above that the filter shape at those settings corresponds very closely to the 'ideal' filter in white. I don't know whether this is desirable or not.

The frequency slope runs like this:-

21.379khz (0.00db)

21.762khx (-2.55db)

22.082khz (-46.5db)

 

Extremely flat to just before Nyquist and then very rapid fall off. Forgot to say earlier that sampling is at 2,000,000 and anti aliasing 200.

[mwheelerk]

Awesome. Thanks for the confirmation. I'm currently using the almost identical 14, 0.9, 0.3 filter just to make sure the signal above 22.05KHz is down 40dB. Definitely sounds great to me too.

 

I was wondering about how the ultra-sonic noise above the Nyquist frequency comes back into the audible range... So, currently these settings are -40db at Nyquist, and are down to -110dB at Nyquist + (22.05-20 KHz). I think this is where is would start showing up in the audible range because the noise starts to increase coming back from 22.05 at -40 to -110 at 20KHz in the audible range. And would be even lower <20KHz. Does that seem correct?

 

Are the three numbers you guys are referring to the Steepness, Cutoff Frequency x Nyquist and pre-Ringing?

 

I just answered my own question (yes). Has there been any consensus reached on a general setting for these three? I have been using from early on in these discussions 24, 0.90 and 0.60. Any recommendations?

[Viola]

No consensus apparently!

[57gold]

Any Mytek user who has arrived at optimal settings?

 

How do filter settings on Mytek interact/impact the Izotope filter settings? Does soft + monkeying with pre-ringing = overkill?

 

Thanks.

[alcarp]

I am a novice when it comes to this so would appreciate some advice. I have the NAD M51 DAC which is a non-NOS DAC. I find that when switching to Izotope the sound is a bit thin and bright - lacks the body that I hear when set to CoreAudio. The settings I've tried are:

 

(1) Default

(2) Cut-off at 0.7

(3) Steepness: 7; Cut-off:0.92; Preringing 0

 

(3) seems the best but body still not as good as CoreAudio.

 

Can anyone suggest suitable settings? Thanks.

[Jud]

I am a novice when it comes to this so would appreciate some advice. I have the NAD M51 DAC which is a non-NOS DAC. I find that when switching to Izotope the sound is a bit thin and bright - lacks the body that I hear when set to CoreAudio. The settings I've tried are:

 

(1) Default

(2) Cut-off at 0.7

(3) Steepness: 7; Cut-off:0.92; Preringing 0

 

(3) seems the best but body still not as good as CoreAudio.

 

Can anyone suggest suitable settings? Thanks.

 

Try pre-ringing settings from .5 through what you have now, moving by, for example, .1 each time.

 

You'll likely find .5 too "sloppy," then successive additions of .1 (.6, .7, etc.) will tighten up the sound and make it "drier." Keep whatever setting sounds most like real life to you.

[BobP63]

Superdad, can you please confirm what izotope and up-sampling settings you're using in the latest Beta's for v1.5? Thanks.

[elcorso]

No consensus apparently!

 

I guess it's impossible to get a "general consensus", this is why the settings are 'user adjustable' since I find they are DAC, music gear system and music dependent and, of course, user taste dependent. In my case even change with the mood...

 

Roch

[Superdad]

Superdad, can you please confirm what izotope and up-sampling settings you're using in the latest Beta's for v1.5? Thanks.

 

With my NOS/filterless DAC, running either "Power of 2 oversampling" or "Oversampling 2x only", I am currently at:

 

Steepness: 7 dB

Filter max length: 1,150,000 Samples

Cutoff freq.: 1.04 x Nyquist

Anti-aliasing: 200

Pre-ringing: 0.65

 

Last week, into a sigma-delta DAC prototype (which we chose the least bad sounding stock internal filter setting as 'filter-off' was not possible), we preferred Steepness of 21 and filter max length of 1,450,000, with all else the same as above. What a difference that made--even though we were only able to run 88.4kHz into it.

 

After the results from the S-D prototype, I may take another run at settings for my NOS DAC as I really have not tried anything new since 1.4.6. And 1.4.9.x betas are certainly a game changer.

 

Hope that helps you. Best to use your absolutely most realistic instrument discs (and a vocal harmony too) to make the adjustments. Much easier to tune to make piano and percussion sound spooky real than to try to get the gestalt of a average recording just right. Once you get your best stuff making you shake your head, the rest of your collection will sound better too! Except for the majority of recordings which may still shout at you and make you sad. Just the way it is.

[alcarp]

Try pre-ringing settings from .5 through what you have now, moving by, for example, .1 each time.

 

You'll likely find .5 too "sloppy," then successive additions of .1 (.6, .7, etc.) will tighten up the sound and make it "drier." Keep whatever setting sounds most like real life to you.

 

Thanks. Can you confirm that izotope and the filter settings is in force only when up sampling is chosen.