Reseller Arrogance or Good Business Practice?

[Paul R]

Gads - I just read this on a website where a guy is selling equipment for upwards of $40K, some of which may actually be good deal, like a Wadia 781i for a bit under $5K. (Marked "Sold" of course. Anything that looked like a good deal was marked "sold" - so color me skeptical...)

 

This is the guys blurb.

 

We have many demo products for sale. Some we can not advertise here at discounted price per manufacturer’s policy.If you are interested in a product you do not see here, please contact [redacted]. At times we have demo, and used trade-in items that are available – only have not had a chance to post here.

Please kindly note these prices are already pretty low, some well under our cost. [redacted] is known for being fair. We are fair, and expect the same in return. Tire kickers, and those coming with a wild offer will lose the privilege of dealing with us in the future. Thanks for your understanding. We love our customers and want to focus on providing the best service to you.

I know what *I* think - what do you guys think? Unbridled arrogance or perfectly fair and reasonable? I edited out the names above on purpose, I'm not interested in slamming this web dealer person, merely in what other people think of this crazy arrogance.

 

-Paul

 

 

[AlainGr]

Hi Paul,

 

Though I have not gone through used market often (2 times only) and since I have never tried to deal with the prices that were indicated, I apply the principle that the dealer has a fair price (that either matches my expectations or not)... In conclusion: I am not good at dealing

 

In any case, when I find an ad not to be on par with my values, I simply skip it Not that I don't approve when someone kiks back, but most of the time, I find words not to be that persuasive... My motto is "I can't change this person, but I can change myself"

 

I know it sounds like "Live and let live", but I consider that unless something is directly aimed at me, I prefer to go toward positive people

 

Alain

[Paul R]

(grin) I generally agree with you Alain - the part about

 

"We are fair, and expect the same in return. Tire kickers, and those coming with a wild offer will lose the privilege of dealing with us in the future..."

 

is what tickled me.

 

Paul

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

Though I have not gone through used market often (2 times only) and since I have never tried to deal with the prices that were indicated, I apply the principle that the dealer has a fair price (that either matches my expectations or not)... In conclusion: I am not good at dealing

 

In any case, when I find an ad not to be on par with my values, I simply skip it Not that I don't approve when someone kiks back, but most of the time, I find words not to be that persuasive... My motto is "I can't change this person, but I can change myself"

 

I know it sounds like "Live and let live", but I consider that unless something is directly aimed at me, I prefer to go toward positive people

 

Alain

[4est]

(grin) I generally agree with you Alain - the part about

 

"We are fair, and expect the same in return. Tire kickers, and those coming with a wild offer will lose the privilege of dealing with us in the future..."

 

is what tickled me.

 

Paul

 

Well, if you have sold much higher priced used gear, it might make more sense. Routinely people will offer you half after asking a bunch of questions, and then act as if you are being unwilling. It can get frustrating.

[AlainGr]

I know Maybe I had too many conflicts in another life But... As I am discovering expressions like "Tire kickers" (I envision someone kicking a tire) that makes me smile, maybe it is my angle of vision that is biased

 

If it was me, I would not advertise like this though... I would prefer to deal with the problem when it happens on an individual basis, not advertise it in advance like they did...

 

Alain

[souptin]

They might as well put a big "No Time Wasters" banner at the top of their site and accept the inevitable.

 

Thing is, we can all sympathise with someone not wanting their time taken up with ridiculous enquiries and offers, but putting the equivalent of a no time wasters statement on your site / advert is practically an open invitation. Not to mention it paints an unflattering picture of the advertiser.

 

ps If you have a half hour to waste, I googled "no time wasters" and found a site dedicated to (presumably made-up) newspaper small ads. Good for a few laughs:

 

No Time Wasters

[Audio_ELF]

Sounds arrogant to me. They can sell at whatever price they want but (especially in the current economy) something is only worth what someone is willing to pay: basic business sense.

 

Eloise

[sjoc2000]

The invisible hand continues to move - A. Smith continues to rest well in his grave (most of the time) :0)

 

Jim

[Audio_ELF]

PS I can't really see responding to "will you take £x" as being time wasting. Reminds me of shops where the staff appear to find customers a distraction...

 

If nothing else an email enquiry gives you another name for your mailing list.

[Robert Hutton]

PS I can't really see responding to "will you take £x" as being time wasting. Reminds me of shops where the staff appear to find customers a distraction...

 

If nothing else an email enquiry gives you another name for your mailing list.

 

I hardly find it arrogant, in fact, their statement is very polite and reasonable.

 

Having sold a few things on Audiogon over the years, I can say that I have always put a statement like 'no lowballers please' because bottom feeders continually troll Audiogon and other like sites looking to feed off the sellers in desperate need to sell, of which there are more and more over the past few economically challenging years. I personally find these bottom feeders to be like pawn shops (a lot of them actually are, in truth) who capitalize off the misery and misfortune of others. A legitimate business, but not one I care to interact with if I am selling. I also do not care to interact with the many resellers/dealers trawling through Audiogon with what are tantamount to phishing emails looking to pick up gear at fractional prices that they then can resell for true market value.

 

I personally don't need an email database of lowballers, scalpers and pawn shop audio dealers.

[Audio_ELF]

Robert; I assume you are acting as an individual rather than representing a dealer. In which case there is a difference.

 

In the motor trade (in UK) it's usual practice to say "no dealers" on adverts which would be the equivalent to what you are saying you would object to (IMO) of course. As a dealer though almost any offer should be treated respectfully.

 

Please note it wasn't me who first suggested they were being arrogant (it's in the OP).

[wgscott]

Why these people don't simply state "price is not negotiable" is beyond me (unless of course it really is negotiable, and they are starting the negotiation on their terms).

 

I've never bought expensive stuff on line except from LL Bean, Orvis, REI and Amazon and a few other similarly reputable vendors, and I haven't ever bought used stuff, and don't even have a paypal account. I don't need the hassle. I bought my last two cars via Costco's pre-negotiated price.

[wgscott]

This is the guys blurb.

 

We have many demo products for sale. Some we can not advertise here at discounted price per manufacturer’s policy.

 

Makes you wonder if they are stolen goods?

[Robert Hutton]

Makes you wonder if they are stolen goods?

 

Sounds a bit paranoid - they are an authorized dealer, and per their dealer agreement they cannot advertise at a price below MSRP. What they are saying is perfectly clear - they have demo units (which dealers commonly have) and they are selling them at a discount, but won't violate their dealer agreement by advertising a discounted price.

 

They aren't selling units which they are saying they removed the serial numbers with a Dremel, are they?

[Robert Hutton]

"Robert; I assume you are acting as an individual rather than representing a dealer. In which case there is a difference.

 

In the motor trade (in UK) it's usual practice to say "no dealers" on adverts which would be the equivalent to what you are saying you would object to (IMO) of course. As a dealer though almost any offer should be treated respectfully.

 

Please note it wasn't me who first suggested they were being arrogant (it's in the OP). "

 

 

With respect, there is no difference. I have sold as an individual, and I state "no lowballers please" so I do not get inundated with emails from the bottom feeders that abound on Audiogon, whether they are dealers, audio scalpers, or lowballers with aspirations beyond their pocketbooks.

 

More importantly, though, it lets me out of any obligation to answer those people. If you answer them, as we have seen here all too recently, these kind of people tend to react with great anger and will even post your reply or negative comments about you online.

 

I once listed a very expensive pair of speakers on Audiogon, and stated very clearly that I would not ship them under any circumstances - pick up only. I have not kept the packing crates, the were large, fragile and awkward. One guy emailed me and really, really wanted them. I tried to work with him - there was a 400 mile distance and a border between us. I offered to put them in the back of my station wagon and cross the border to meet him. He wanted me to get on a plane the next day, take the speakers with me as checked cargo, and - well, to make a long story short, I just could not meet his demands and urgency, so I eventually told him it just wasn't going to work.

 

He posted almost immediately what an asshole and unreasonable jerk I am on a major audio site. Sweet. I said in the ad clearly - local pick up ONLY.

 

After that - I just don't reply. What you don't say can't be posted about you online.

 

Look at it from the sellers perspective. There is a valid argument that everyone is s a customer, true. But not everyone is a customer I want, or that I have time to deal with. I have to focus on the customers which, in a broad range, are the ones that fit my offering.

[Audio_ELF]

With respect: at least in UK there is a big difference between individual sales and business. At a simple level an individual sale is caveat emptor (buyer beware which equates to very few rights) where as if selling as a business (dealer) the buyer has lots of rights.

 

That's one reason why a dealer will buy low and sell high.

 

Eloise

[Robert Hutton]

With respect: at least in UK there is a big difference between individual sales and business. At a simple level an individual sale is caveat emptor (buyer beware which equates to very few rights) where as if selling as a business (dealer) the buyer has lots of rights.

 

That's one reason why a dealer will buy low and sell high.

 

Eloise

 

Great, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

I don't care if it is a dealer buying low and selling high or an individual. I don't care to waste my time dealing with scalpers and low ball nutcases, and then having them come on an internet forum like this and display their anger at not being able to buy a Mercedes for the price of a Kia at my expense. I prefer to politely ask them to not email me their offers. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, and nobody except a bottom feeder should ever have a problem with it.

[realhifi]

Gads - I just read this on a website where a guy is selling equipment for upwards of $40K, some of which may actually be good deal, like a Wadia 781i for a bit under $5K. (Marked "Sold" of course. Anything that looked like a good deal was marked "sold" - so color me skeptical...)

 

This is the guys blurb.

 

We have many demo products for sale. Some we can not advertise here at discounted price per manufacturer’s policy.If you are interested in a product you do not see here, please contact [redacted]. At times we have demo, and used trade-in items that are available – only have not had a chance to post here.

Please kindly note these prices are already pretty low, some well under our cost. [redacted] is known for being fair. We are fair, and expect the same in return. Tire kickers, and those coming with a wild offer will lose the privilege of dealing with us in the future. Thanks for your understanding. We love our customers and want to focus on providing the best service to you.

I know what *I* think - what do you guys think? Unbridled arrogance or perfectly fair and reasonable? I edited out the names above on purpose, I'm not interested in slamming this web dealer person, merely in what other people think of this crazy arrogance.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

Looks simple enough to me. If you'd like something he has and like the price then please respond, otherwise don't bother is pretty much how I read this.

How someone words an ad has very little if any affect on how I look at a possible transaction. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding, and if he has something I want at a price I'll pay I will go forward.

 

Personally I don't think they'd mind a bit if you put in their name OR for that matter their telephone number! They most likely would be happy for the free advertising!

[jshawn]

Wow-

 

From the "About - Policy" page of the same website:

 

 

 

"Bad boys and girls. Please do us a favor and do not buy from us…better yet, please do not contact us to begin with. Just do not deal with us and we will love you for that!

 

In all our years we have had less than a handful of customers we prefer not to do business with. We are not shy to tell those people not to contact us for future business. We want to focus on our time and energy on our customers, the good boys and girls we love.

No tire kickers; those who try to put a couple of dealers/associates pitting against each other for $50; people who are just not happy with their lives, and make us miserable too; people who try to find fault with everything including the audio industry and try to tell us how to run our business; the ones whose offers I accepted but said they need to talk to their wives and get back (thanks for not getting back!), the one who broke his cartridge, blamed the cartridge, but told his friend he broke the cartridge himself, etc.

 

No “cyber bullies” and “loud mouth bribing.” Some try to “bribe” us by either threatening to post or posting negative things on the web regarding our products or service."

 

[Audio_ELF]

At the end of the day; any seller who acts like they are doing a favour in selling to me won't get my custom. The way the advert (Paul posted) is written sound to me like they are acting that way.

 

On the other hand some customers do act like a***s. There's no excuse for that either.

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

Some dealers I would drive to Michigan to deal with, others... well....

 

Honestly though David - how many delaers do you know do a brisk enough business they can expect customers to beg them to sell things to them?

 

This guy is effectively saying - I am out to take your money, I don't care if you get a good deal or not, you should THANK me for taking your money. Riiiight.

 

Actually, I have seen my wife's father, who opened a used car lot after he retired from the city, manipulate a potential buyer to the point that the buyer was actually begging him to sell him a specific car for more money than he asked for on the window sticker. (*sigh*)

 

Guess I feel that if the dealer has a right to expect a good deal, then I do too. After all, the dealer is most likely not leaving much money on the table when *he* buys his gear. A good deal has to be fair on both sides.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

Looks simple enough to me. If you'd like something he has and like the price then please respond, otherwise don't bother is pretty much how I read this.

How someone words an ad has very little if any affect on how I look at a possible transaction. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding, and if he has something I want at a price I'll pay I will go forward.

 

Personally I don't think they'd mind a bit if you put in their name OR for that matter their telephone number! They most likely would be happy for the free advertising!

[realhifi]

Some dealers I would drive to Michigan to deal with, others... well....

 

Honestly though David - how many delaers do you know do a brisk enough business they can expect customers to beg them to sell things to them?

 

This guy is effectively saying - I am out to take your money, I don't care if you get a good deal or not, you should THANK me for taking your money. Riiiight.

 

Actually, I have seen my wife's father, who opened a used car lot after he retired from the city, manipulate a potential buyer to the point that the buyer was actually begging him to sell him a specific car for more money than he asked for on the window sticker. (*sigh*)

 

Guess I feel that if the dealer has a right to expect a good deal, then I do too. After all, the dealer is most likely not leaving much money on the table when *he* buys his gear. A good deal has to be fair on both sides.

 

-Paul

 

In 2009, after the crash in the preceding year, a chill went through the audio industry. Because of the housing crash and subsequent credit freeze ALL custom installation of A/V disappeared. I mean ALL. From coast to coast audio shops that had basically used custom installation as a means to subsidize Hifi business fell like dominos. This was felt world wide and even giants like B&W were rocked so hard that many barely survived.

Through this period the dealers also came under intense pressure from Internet sales and many more subsequently folded. Pricing became impossible and the sharks, smelling blood, started calling to see if their were any steals to be had because they felt that the dealers were in a tight place and basically would accept anything rather than have stock around not moving. They were right. This trend has not yet ended.

 

The dealer in question from the original post was far from rude in his ad and I am struggling to see how his words can be interpreted as you have done in the last post.

My mother always said to put yourself in another persons shoes before you judge them because you don't know what has happened to them before you met them. I don't know what circumstances have brought you to bring this ad and dealer to task but I am frankly a bit surprised and disappointed.

[Audio_ELF]

David ... the part I feel is arrogant is "those coming with a wild offer will lose the privilege of dealing with us in the future". And similar sentiments in other things that have been written.

 

As I said already - it gives the impression we should feel privileged to be allowed to buy from this particular dealer. Where as any dealer should be privileged to have our trade - though as you say not at any cost.

 

Eloise

[mav52]

I find those type of "adds" entertaining and just move on.... No comment or bid necessary, There is too much more in life to deal with than worrying about some person selling equipment on a website.

[4est]

I am completely with David on this. The seller is upfront. Let's do a deal, if you play games, it is a one time shot-simple.