Recommended Equipment to rip vinyl

[zenpmd]

Can anyone advise? My logic now is, although mainly a 'computer audiphile' it makes most sense for the originals that I own to be vinyl. Why? Well, because they're cool and beautiful and better spent than money on CDs!

 

I haven't bought the record player yet - I was looking at Rega. But I assume I want a 'line level' out so I can go straight into the computer?

[flatmap]

Vinyl is wonderful in its own right. You're right that you'll need not just the turntable (and cartridge) but also a phono preamp. That last will take the low level output from the cartridge, apply the RIAA correction, and output a line level signal. These items can be quite an investment on their own.

 

You'd need to get the analog line level signal into your computer. Either you'd go straight into the microphone input on your PC or you'd also buy a separate Analog to Digital (ADC) converter and then to your usb input. Using your microphone input relies on the ADC circuit in your PC... but while fine for spoken input... maybe not so great for music. It will be completely recognizable, but may seem a bit flat compared to what you heard from the LP.

 

Once you get the signal to your computer you'll most likely use Audacity, a competent and free bit of software that will allow you to record the signal and capture as a (e.g.) wav file. That software will also allow you to divide the signal into individual files for each track.

 

So this can add up to a bit of money to get started. And there are several ways of going about the details... well no end to variation. Hope this helps in your decision!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Can anyone advise? My logic now is, although mainly a 'computer audiphile' it makes most sense for the originals that I own to be vinyl. Why? Well, because they're cool and beautiful and better spent than money on CDs!

 

I haven't bought the record player yet - I was looking at Rega. But I assume I want a 'line level' out so I can go straight into the computer?

 

A Vinyl to Digital (A to D) guide will be published here on CA in about one week. The article is complete but just needs a proof-read. The first article will be using Windows and the second A to D article will use OS X.

[firedog]

You're right that you'll need not just the turntable (and cartridge) but also a phono preamp.

 

IMO, the best way to record for computer use is a phono preamp that gives you the option of TURNING OFF the built in (hardware) RIAA curve. You can use software (like Diamond Cut) to apply the RIAA curve after recording the files. Why? Good software will give you a more accurate RIAA curve than any hardware. Even Mike Fremmer has written that he likes this method.

[zenpmd]

Excellent thanks everyone, sounds interesting

[Miska]

Good quality phono stage and Korg MR-2000S (or MR-1000) recording in DSD128 is my recommendation today.

 

I'm hoping to test M2Tech Joplin sometime not in too far future:

http://www.m2tech.biz/joplin.html

Seems very good device for the purpose, 32/384 ADC, input impedance and gain should work fine for MM cartridges or high output MC (like Dynavector DV-10x5), and it has bunch of digital RIAA curves available... Seems to be good for tape transfers too.

[zenpmd]

For playback, what will I need to connect to my Burson Conductor?

[mayhem13]

A USB cable from your PC/server........and your favorite cans of course.

 

I second the Korg recommendation for analog to digital conversion of your LPs.

[Guidof]

Even Mike Fremmer has written that he likes this method.

 

Ah, if Mikey likes it, it must be really good! ;-)

 

To the OP: If you're planning to digitize LPs, be armed with limitless patience. It is a time consuming affair.

 

Personally, I use an inexpensive ART ADC (I'm cheap), but I have a decent Conrad Johnson Motif phono preamp. Excellent results, even with this modest equipment. I use Vinyl Studio and Adobe Audition (which I got for free, as our daughter works at Adobe).

 

Best luck!

 

Guido F.

[zenpmd]

I mean, connecting the phonograph to the conductor?

[4est]

I mean, connecting the phonograph to the conductor?

 

You need a phono preamp.

[John]

Why? Well, because they're cool and beautiful and better spent than money on CDs!

 

I would caution you not to bother. I have purchased a couple of hundred LP's over the last 3 years and I can count on my fingers the number that have really great sound quality. It sounds from your post that you don't yet have a record collection. I would say that there has never been a worse time to get into vinyl.

 

The days of picking up cheap second hand LP's are long gone since everyone knows the value of these things nowadays. To my ears and on my system (ymmv etc) all modern vinyl is crap. From the cheaper back-to-black re-pressings to the luxury goods from classic records mfsl etc, they all sound poor to me. In fact, I don't have a single heavyweight LP (180g and upwards) that gets any playtime. (And yes I do meticulously adjust VTA for the differing record thicknesses).

 

I do have some stunning vinyl. I just played Joe's Garage as it happens and it is amazing but, like most of my decent stuff it was expensive (USD 100) and like all of my discs worth playing it is an old lightweight pressing. There are exceptions; I got a fabulous copy of Pauls Simon's Gracelands from a flea market from 2 dollars but you have to be really lucky to find stuff that way. The good stuff costs a lot. (Actually some of the rubbish costs a lot too).

 

Ignore my rant if you already have a collection but, honestly, I wouldn't advise anyone to start one. At 5k dollars minimum for a front-end plus the same again for a hundred half-decent discs - you might get more smiles from spending 10k on a pair of speakers.

 

- John.

[JonP]

Can anyone advise? My logic now is, although mainly a 'computer audiphile' it makes most sense for the originals that I own to be vinyl. Why? Well, because they're cool and beautiful and better spent than money on CDs!

 

I haven't bought the record player yet - I was looking at Rega. But I assume I want a 'line level' out so I can go straight into the computer?

 

You are going to have to spend a lot of money and will have to endure a long learning curve in order to get better results with vinyl transcriptions than simply buying the CD. It is not cheap buying a turntable that has very low noise and a stable speed, nor is a tonearm and cartridge cheap that will ride the grooves accurately, give minimal frequency response loss in the inner grooves and produce negligible inner groove distortion. Despite what you may think or be told, the equipment as a bare minimum is going to cost around $6,000 - $7,000 at least if you want a half-decent result that is superior to CD - and that does not include the software you will need to record and edit your captures. You not only need the turntable, tonearm, cartirdge, phono amp and soundcard - you are going to need a number of high quality cables, a mains conditioner, mains cables and additional components in your computer manage Rf-induced noise - just those components can cost at least a couple of thousand to begin with. And on the software side of things - it takes a lot of experience and skill to perform seamless, inaudible edits which will be inevitable given the vinyl medium. And to do seamless editing, you are going to additionally require high quality, closed headphones and a high quality headphone amplifier - otherwise your edits will be audible.

 

As has also been pointed out, modern pressings are poor in quality and you will be spending a lot of time performing those seamless edits. And forget about second hand recordings - the good ones are either all gone, too expensive or sound far worse than a good digital remastering.

 

So far as I am concerned, the only reason for going to vinyl to digital route is if you are prepared to spend a lot up front on the equipment (I suspect way more than you are considering), are prepared to spend hundreds of hours learning your craft and the idiosyncrasies of the equipment so as to get the best out of it and have the time and patience to actually go through with it.

 

If you try to do it on a budget, things might seem fine for the short term, but then things will begin to annoy you (such as the painstaking editing, poor pressings, inner groove distortion, etc, and those annoyances will grow and grow until you begin to detest those things. You will then fish out a CD and wonder why you went the vinyl route to begin with. You have to either commit yourself totally to it in personal and financial terms, or give it a miss althogether. Being retired helps too - it can take up to 6 hours to edit one side, especially with some of the modern pressings that may have hundreds of flaws which need rectification.

[bluesman]

This thread really made me think hard, as it's about much more than sound. I'm fortunate enough to own somewhere between 1500 and 2000 excellent records, of which I bought about 1000 brand new starting with Dave Brubeck's Newport 1958 on Columbia and Ricky [Nelson] Sings Again (my first two LPs, from 1959). I've kept them all in excellent condition, along with my family's 78s (which include some very early one-sided multi-disc albums by Stokowski with the Philadelphia Orchestra, my father's Nat King Cole collection, Kreisler, Romberg, Broadway soundtracks etc etc). So I love vinyl - I grew up with it, it's in my blood, and it sounds wonderful on my TD-125 Mk II / SME.

 

I've now ripped about 1000 CDs to FLACs. I listen to them on my home system, my office PC, my iPhone, and any other web-connected device I'm near. They sound great at home and from my iPhone through my NuForce iDo DAC/amp, and they're OK via work PC etc. Over my main system through good equipment, they really sound wonderful.

 

I started to rip my records and got as far as the first one. After thorough cleaning of the disc and careful tweaking of my recording setup, I spent a few hours capturing it, sanitizing it, splitting it into tracks, entering metadata etc - and when I was done, I had a file that sounded no better than my CD rips. So as much as I want to digitize my record library and access it from anywhere at any time, it just ain't gonna happen. It's too much work for too little return, in my opinion. I'll listen to my records at home and love them forever - but most of them are available in at least one digital format, so I can take them with me if I'm desperate for a particular performance.

 

Despite the limited dynamic and frequency ranges, background noise, imperfect speed stability etc, the imaging, depth and overall feel of well mic'ed, well produced analog recordings on old vinyl can be breathtaking - but they're not of major importance to me in my car, on a train, or at my desk. The greatness of old recordings is best appreciated in the comfort and quiet of my own home. So I strongly suggest buying a nice turntable and getting acquainted with records. But use them for what they are - don't try to make them something they're not. You can pick up an excellent table with arm and cartridge for under $500 (check out online sites like Needle Doctor) plus one of the many fine inexpensive phono preamps (e.g. Parasound Zphono), for a system that will let you experience, enjoy and understand vinyl very well.

 

I've been lucky enough to have a 50 year love affair with records, and it's been wonderful. But you can't start from scratch today and duplicate that experience in a vacuum, especially while trying to transpose it to another medium at the same time - there's much more to vinyl than the information pressed into it. Digitizing a large vinyl library is simply not worth the massive effort, in my considered opinion. But vinyl's an experience you shouldn't miss. I agree with JonP and others that a lot of currently produced vinyl is well below the quality we took for granted in 1960 - but there's also some excellent stuff out there, and finding it is part of the joy of collecting records.

[Guidof]

It's possible to spend large amounts of money pursuing good sound on either vinyl or digital playback equipment. With careful choices, it's also possible to achieve excellent results with relatively modest expenditure.

 

As has been pointed out, the main obstacle to successfully digitizing vinyl is the time and care that it takes to get decent results. While these may be justified for those LPs for which there is no available CD version, it's highly dubious that they are otherwise worth the candle.

 

Starting an LP collection today, unless for the purpose of listening to it on analog equipment, probably looks more promising on paper than it will prove in reality. You may want to think hard before you lay out long green.

 

Best luck!

 

Guido F.

[bluesman]

Starting an LP collection today, unless for the purpose of listening to it on analog equipment, probably looks more promising on paper than it will prove in reality.

 

I agree with you, Guido - vinyl's simply not a practical medium for most people for most purposes. But the vinyl experience is an essential part of the education and fund of knowledge of an audiophile. I recommend it highly, even today, for those who truly want to know all they can about music and its reproduction. A pretty good t'table and phono stage preamp is a great investment that will pay off in knowledge one can't get any other way. One can resell the hardware used if vinyl turns out not to be fun, but the knowledge and experienced gained will remain long after the cost is forgotten.

 

There's simply no way to understand the lore and the lure from reading about it - like anything else that's based on sensory input and subjective judgments, vinyl requires direct exposure. Experiencing it through the words of others is like learning about sex from a book.

 

David

[zenpmd]

Fascinating thoughts, thanks guys. I think the conclusion I am starting to come to is to get a reasonable turntable, and simply buy a few records and only ever listen to them as vinyl, for the experience they provide. In the home and on special occasions. I bought a number of cds the other day, about 8 in total, and the speed with which they found themselves as flacs on my computer was incredible!

[m_j_s]

Just my 2c. I have hunderds of LPs but haven't bought one for perhaps 20years. Some date to the mid 60's and most are in excellent condition and some are sonically superb. At the same time I have hundreds of CDs, lots of DVDs, a few SACDs and a few computer file only tracks. I have reasonably high quality vinyl playback gear and now with the acquisition of a MAC Mini and an RME audio interface, I can make near perfect copies of the vinyl that are just as enjoyable to listen to as the original vinyl and obviously a lot more flexible in terms of storage, playback, etc.

 

It would be a very different story if I didn't have the vinyl to start with. I am sure I would just stick to digital media, as the cost of the analog front end would be prohibitive. Imagine how many recordings you could buy for say $8k?

[Audio_ELF]

While people who say you need good equipment aren't wrong, I think you can get good results on a budget especially if you have a vinyl collection already, or interested in more obscure recordings that aren't available in digital form...

 

Starting with a good but modest priced turntable (and these are UK prices); something like...

Pro-ject Xperience M-Pack Turntable with Ortfon 2M Blue cartridge (£775)

Rega RP6 Performance Turntable with Exact 6 Cartridge (around £1000)

Linn Maik LP12 Turntable (£2350)

 

Add to that a phono stage...

Musical Fidelity VLPS 2 Phono Stage (£120) plus optionally Musical Fidelity VPSU 2 Power Supply Upgrade (total £270)

Trichord Dino Mk2 Phono Stage (£390)

 

And add an A-D converter...

RME Fireface UC USB 2.0 Compact Audio Interface (£680) and you can actually miss out the phono stage and use digital eq.

Or if you prefer DSD recording Korg MR-2000S (around £1200 if you can find one in the UK).

 

Anyway just some examples that recording vinyl isn't quite so expensive as some people make out - depending on your expectations...

[bluesman]

And add an A-D converter...

 

This isn't necessary when you can get units like the Parasound Zphono USB, an excellent and inexpensive phono stage preamp designed by John Curl with an ADC and integral USB output (e.g. $350 FROM Audio Advisor). It "sounds" wonderful in a simple analog system (very neutral, no glaring oddities or flaws at all, to my ears) - and you can make digital recordings directly from it.

[Audio_ELF]

This isn't necessary when you can get units like the Parasound Zphono USB, an excellent and inexpensive phono stage preamp designed by John Curl with an ADC and integral USB output (e.g. $350 FROM Audio Advisor). It "sounds" wonderful in a simple analog system (very neutral, no glaring oddities or flaws at all, to my ears) - and you can make digital recordings directly from it.

Like most built in to phono-stage ADC the Parasound Z is limited to 16/48. Personally I would rather mate a MF V-LPS to a EMu 0204 USB interface for similar money.

 

Anyway the specific equipment wasn't the point - I was saying you CAN make good (if not the highest quality) recordings using more modest equipment.

 

Even a Project Essentials / Rega RP1 or similar turntable can give good results IMO.

[AudGuy]

Ripping a record, we need an ADC:

 

Soundblaster XFi Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD PCIe Sound Card | Creative Labs Online Store

Juli@ PCI soundcard ESI - Juli@

Benchmark ADC1 USB ADC1 USB Overview | Benchmark Media

Mytek Stereo 192 Mytek Digital | HiFi

Ayre QA-9 Ayre Acoustics QA-9

Tascam DV-RA1000 Product: DV-RA1000HD | TASCAM

Korg MR2000 Digital Stereo Recorder | DSD | Mastering Deck | Korg MR-2000SBK

 

Software is essential, a few recommendations:

 

GoldWave GoldWave - Audio Editor, Recorder, Converter, Restoration, & Analysis Software

Steinberg WaveLab http://www.steinberg.net/

SoundForge Sound Forge Product Family Overview

Cakewalk Sonar Cakewalk - SONAR X2 - Essential

 

 

A lot of answers to lots of questions here: Audio FAQ

 

I am using an EMU-0404 and Goldwave to achieve pretty satisfactory results.

I cannot recommend an EMU product because they don't seem to be available anymore.

My ambition is to obtain a Tascam or perhaps a Korg stand alone rack mount recorder.

 

Both are excellent PCM and DSD recorders, if one wants to move in that direction.

 

Experience: pay very close attention to gain, use settings as high as possible without clipping.

 

This can be a tedious task, and can be absolutely rewarding, your call ...

[The Computer Audiophile]

The first of two A to D guides is up on the site.

 

Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl To Digital Files Using Windows

[bluesman]

I was saying you CAN make good (if not the highest quality) recordings using more modest equipment.

 

Agree completely! It's not what you use but how you use it that matters most. My thought re: the Zphono is just that it's a single, simple front end that would serve well in a basic system with a turntable. The Curl-designed preamp is really quite good regardless of cost - it's worth a listen for anyone who hasn't experienced Curl's work.

[joelha]

I just have to say that I don't spin vinyl and don't intend to, but what an incredibly well written article.

 

Congratulations Mitchco, for a super piece, and to you too, Chris, for enlisting Mitcho. I hope you two can collaborate on more articles like this one.

 

These kinds of pieces are one of the greatest bonuses of following CA.

 

Joel