Do you own the music you buy from a download site?

[smdb01us]

Very interesting:

 

Bruce Willis Considering Lawsuit Against Apple Over iTunes Store Music Transferability - Mac Rumors

[Audio_ELF]

Very interesting:

 

Bruce Willis Considering Lawsuit Against Apple Over iTunes Store Music Transferability - Mac Rumors

Maybe interesting... but apparently untrue (read the update).

 

Eloise

[Musicophile]

Maybe interesting... but apparently untrue (read the update).

 

Eloise

 

Hoax or not, it still raises questions about whether somebody really owns a download he or she has paid for.

 

 

It is to be fair mostly a theoretical discussion, as once you do have the files on the hard disk, it is hard to control what you're doing with it, but I still feel a bit annoyed by the fact that most download sites I'm aware of talk about a "non-transferable" license.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but to me this means for example that something I downloaded off e.g. Highresaudio I couldn't resell. I wouldn't want to anyhow, but I still feel this entire legal situation needs a little bit of clarification.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is an interesting topic. I see it as two different items.

 

1. What is actually purchased (a license to listen).

 

2. Transfer of ownership

A. Upon death.

B. upon sale or gift.

 

I assumed everyone understood they were only purchasing a license to listen. The transfer of ownership is another story. Does anyone know if physical CDs have such a restriction placed on transfer of ownership?

[Jud]

This is an interesting topic. I see it as two different items.

 

1. What is actually purchased (a license to listen).

 

2. Transfer of ownership

A. Upon death.

B. upon sale or gift.

 

I assumed everyone understood they were only purchasing a license to listen. The transfer of ownership is another story. Does anyone know if physical CDs have such a restriction placed on transfer of ownership?

 

[Pedantic lawyer mode] What you pay for is one or more rights. "License" is a somewhat more precise, and "ownership" a somewhat less precise, term for the act of transferring the right(s), in return for payment or other consideration. [/Pedantic lawyer mode]

 

I'd assume you can resell physical CDs without running afoul of any legal restrictions, since CD resale is something that's always been carried on quite openly without even those nice folks at the RIAA apparently being bothered.

[smdb01us]

Maybe interesting... but apparently untrue (read the update).

 

Eloise

 

Correct, I was more after the idea behind it than the story itself... I very often wonder "what" exactly I am paying for when I purchase music...

[souptin]

This is an interesting topic. I see it as two different items.

Does anyone know if physical CDs have such a restriction placed on transfer of ownership?

 

Damn, I knew there was a reason why nobody wanted to buy my collection of classic CDs

 

[smdb01us]

I'd assume you can resell physical CDs without running afoul of any legal restrictions, since CD resale is something that's always been carried on quite openly without even those nice folks at the RIAA apparently being bothered.

 

That is what would be really interesting to know for sure. Ideally, I would like to have the same "rights" with my digital music as I do with my physical media...

[Julf]

Does anyone know if physical CDs have such a restriction placed on transfer of ownership?

 

I can only comment on European law - every time I think US law can't get any crazier, I get surprised , but over here a CD is a physical item that you can transfer freely. You have not signed any sort of contract restricting transfer rights when buying a CD in a shop.

[smdb01us]

I can only comment on European law - every time I think US law can't get any crazier, I get surprised , but over here a CD is a physical item that you can transfer freely. You have not signed any sort of contract restricting transfer rights when buying a CD in a shop.

 

Second reason why I love Amsterdam...

[Bear]

I think the answer on the CD question is that you can sell or give away the original physical CD, but you can't copy it and then sell/give away.

[Julf]

Second reason why I love Amsterdam...

 

Probably no accident that the largest chain of CD stores here is the Free Record Shop

[wgscott]

Apparently, no, according to Apple:

 

Can Bruce Willis leave his iTunes music to his kids? - CNN.com

[James1776]

If I pay for it, I own it...I do not rent music.

[wgscott]

Check the user agreements. You may find it is not as you say.

[James1776]

Check the user agreements. You may find it is not as you say.

 

The user agreements are gibberish and not read by anyone ever....An agreement is only binding if both sides understand it.

[Musicophile]

The same thing is already discussed here:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/bruce-willis-considering-lawsuit-against-apple-over-itunes-store-music-transferabilit-13222/

 

I suggest merging the 2 threads.

[4est]

The user agreements are gibberish and not read by anyone ever....An agreement is only binding if both sides understand it.

 

I have to wonder how much you are willing to spend on legal fees attempting to prove that...

[firedog]

My understanding of the law is that you own the music for personal use, but you can't give make copies for anyone else.

 

An update to the Bruce Willis story says the part about him being involved in a lawsuit is untrue. However, the article says there is no specific Apple restriction on transferring the music, for instance to heirs.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Damn, I knew there was a reason why nobody wanted to buy my collection of classic CDs

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1860[/ATTACH]

 

Reminds me of this gem from Bruce:

 

[video=youtube_share;F1daIIDQsXI]

[sdolezalek]

I had never thought of the license concept being an issue until my copy of Chris Botti's Italia suddenly stopped playing. Nothing I had done, but the Company through whom I had bought it had gone bankrupt and their licenses were revoked. That it turn, meant all of their users licenses were also revoked. Theoretically I could have sued somebody to either recover my money or get my license back, but whom do you sue over $25.00. It was my first 24/192 download, but it sure made me think harder about whom I was buying these songs from. I don't think that can happen with physical media, but who knows in these days of Blu-Ray Disks authenticating themselves?

 

Does anyone really know how solvent the various download vendors are and whether or not what we download contains DRM (Digital Rights Management) software?

[Musicophile]

 

Does anyone really know how solvent the various download vendors are and whether or not what we download contains DRM (Digital Rights Management) software?

 

Qobuz has a claim on their site that they stopped all DRM in 2009:

 

La musique téléchargée contient-elle des DRM ? - Résolue

 

No mention I could find about reselling the files at first look. They authorize private use only, so you cannot use them in your next public concert, which is fine by me:

 

Le client bénéficie d'un droit d'utilisation personnel des fichiers, limité aux conditions décrites à l'article 7, dans un cadre strictement privé. Conformément à l'article 2 des présentes CGUV, tous les fichiers proposés au téléchargement sont protégés par le droit d'auteur. Leur utilisation ne pourra donc se faire strictement que dans un cadre privé et gratuit, dans le total respect des conditions définies par QOBUZ (Source: Conditions Générales d'Utilisation et de Vente de Qobuz).

 

No idea about their financial situation.

[James1776]

I have to wonder how much you are willing to spend on legal fees attempting to prove that...

 

I doubt the industry would be stupid enough to prosecute individuals over it.

[James1776]

I had never thought of the license concept being an issue until my copy of Chris Botti's Italia suddenly stopped playing. Nothing I had done, but the Company through whom I had bought it had gone bankrupt and their licenses were revoked. That it turn, meant all of their users licenses were also revoked. Theoretically I could have sued somebody to either recover my money or get my license back, but whom do you sue over $25.00. It was my first 24/192 download, but it sure made me think harder about whom I was buying these songs from. I don't think that can happen with physical media, but who knows in these days of Blu-Ray Disks authenticating themselves?

 

Does anyone really know how solvent the various download vendors are and whether or not what we download contains DRM (Digital Rights Management) software?

 

I am not sure I understand what you are saying...Did you download your music to your PC? Did you back up your PC. How can a file you own on your PC be turned off by the company that sold it to you without that company entering into your PC and screwing with the file??

 

If you are using some sort of a 'cloud' service, well...all can say about that is good luck.

[Jud]

The user agreements are gibberish and not read by anyone ever....An agreement is only binding if both sides understand it.

 

You are not correct as a practical matter regarding the law of contracts in general and the law regarding EULAs (end user license agreements, or "click-wrap" contracts) specifically. And your statement that you "doubt the industry would be stupid enough to prosecute individuals over it" has been refuted by numerous RIAA suits against individual users/listeners for shockingly large requested damage figures. I don't remember for sure whether I'd read somewhere that the RIAA was going to abandon that strategy, but even if they have there's absolutely nothing preventing them from resuming what they've clearly shown they are indeed "stupid enough" to do.