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    It Is The Best of Times . . . Hands Down

     

     

        

        Audio: Listen to this article.

     

     

     

    It is the best of times . . . hands down.

     

    While it’s hard to know how many readers agree, I’ll first deal with the reasons to disagree:

     

    High-end audio stores are becoming a rarity in the U.S. and many stores now reside in store owners’ homes. As a result, we have fewer opportunities to audition equipment, leaving us with audio shows, friends who live nearby who might have the component we’re interested in, and audio reviews. Hardly ideal alternatives.

     

    Speaking of audio shows, they’re infrequent and, if you have to travel a long way, expensive. What’s more, the show’s rooms (typically hotel rooms) are rarely ideal for critical listening. Finally, it’s always frustrated me that there’s an acceptance of conversation during listening sessions. I know people want to share opinions and conduct business but the primary reason for an audio show should be to hear audio.

     

    Online trolls are a downside of the industry. For reasons that are hard to understand, some people delight in trying to make others miserable. I’ll offer a theory in spite of the fact that it doesn’t reflect well on our hobby. Ours is generally a hobby enjoyed alone. Unlike a group getting together to watch a televised football game, we usually don’t invite “the guys” over to listen to Mahler. Does that mean we audiophiles are a bunch of social misfits? No, and I have a number of dear friends in the industry who certainly don’t fit that description. But I wonder, because of the nature of our hobby, if we have more than our share of maladjusted hobbyists.

     

    You might be thinking that there’s nothing new about trolling. People have always raised their “issues”. While that’s true, the internet has brought us online forums and anonymity which allows for far more obnoxious behavior. Where there used to be disagreeable letters to magazines, now there can be tiresome exchanges which often substitute vitriol for substance.

     

    There’s also the economy. Many people are struggling to pay their bills. How can it be “the best of times” when people struggle to pay for gas, groceries, and rent?

     

    Probably the best objection to my “best of times” claim is that, at least in the U.S., the high-end audio industry is shrinking. This is an existential issue that has been well documented and frequently discussed. In general, the younger generations seem to care more about audio convenience than audio quality. It’s not only their loss but ours as well. As we lose hobbyists we lose the high-end industry. It’s disappointing to see the advancing age of the average U.S. audio show attendee. Furthermore, how many non-audiophiles know of even reasonably priced audio brands such as Magneplanar and NAD let alone the higher-priced brands such as Wilson Audio or D’Agostino? I’ll bet a pretty small percentage. At least I can dream of owning a Learjet because I know what it is. But how does one aspire to own a product they’ve never even heard of?

     

    After all of that, what could be good?

     

    Fortunately, quite a bit.

     

    Without a doubt, the most significant advancement in our industry is technology and the internet.

     

    When I was a teen, the only way to add to my audio system or music collection was to either buy mail order products or hope there was an audio or music store nearby.

     

    Today, we have easy access to products in almost any part of the world. We can quickly learn about and order products from China, Europe, and Australia. We can view various manufacturers’ information online and quickly make comparisons between products. Internet searches not only help us find product reviews but find forums which allows us to interact with listeners internationally.

     

    Forums can also be indispensable for problem-solving. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been helped by someone willing to sacrifice their time to solve my audio issue.

     

    How about music downloads? It’s not easy to list all the sources of downloadable music (Qobuz, Hdtracks, Bandcamp, etc.). And the selection is growing, not only in terms of variety but also in terms of high resolution and surround options.

     

    You’d rather buy cd’s and vinyl instead of downloads? Discogs, Amazon, Analog Productions, and so many other companies offer a tremendous variety of music in almost any genre, new and used. Here again, an internet search will produce purchase options from all over the world.

     

    How about the renaissance in tape playback? Some are not only going back to reel-to-reel tape but even cassette tape.

     

    At least to some listeners, sound can be upgraded using a variety of upsamplers and programs minimizing the processes employed by Windows. There are countless other programs and tweaks available at the click of a mouse tempting many audiophiles to continually explore the possibility of getting even better sound.

     

    Room correction software is yet another method many are using to improve the sound they get in their listening space. While not as simple as a music download, the software is easy to get and can be installed and operated by someone with average computer skills.

     

    The benefits of these technical advancements don’t stop with the end-user. The ability of manufacturers to measure their products and globally source components is greater than it’s ever been. Ultimately, we are the beneficiaries.

     

    And how could I leave out streaming? Literally millions and millions of tracks are available, not only in two-channels but in surround as well, delivered to our rooms (or phones) in seconds for a relatively modest monthly charge.

     

    As for prices, I never understood the complaints I’ve read so often about high-priced audio. Sure, there are many uber-priced components which roughly equate to the price of a nice home. But in what way do those products affect our ability to shop at the lower end of the market? With a laptop or PC, even $100 will get you a decent tiny USB dac and in-ear monitors. For $500 you can get a nice dac, deskop amplifier and desktop speakers. And $1,000 will you a surprisingly good system including stand mount speakers, integrated amplifier and dac. And that’s shopping for new product. Shopping on-line for used products offers even more possibilities.

     

    I realize almost everyone reading this article is well aware of most if not all of the points I’ve made. But I’m not sure how many audiophiles have taken the time to reflect on the great audiophile times in which we live. It is easy to take all that we have for granted and, given the frustrations we experience in our hobby and even in life, it’s important to reflect on what is right in our lives. The title of my article doesn’t say or even imply “perfect”. I’ve listed a number of reasons to be frustrated but I’ll take today to any time in the past . . . hands-down.

     

     




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    I don’t miss having to ask a clerk to play a CD/LP or calling in a request to a radio station in order to hear something not listened to before. While I don’t believe one can get a good system for $1k or less there are good compromises now in that range. And digital tech is maturing to where DAC’s are much better. Class D amps have made it possible to drive well even the most inefficient speaker

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    8 minutes ago, davide256 said:

    I don’t miss having to ask a clerk to play a CD/LP or calling in a request to a radio station in order to hear something not listened to before. While I don’t believe one can get a good system for $1k or less there are good compromises now in that range. And digital tech is maturing to where DAC’s are much better. Class D amps have made it possible to drive well even the most inefficient speaker

     

    Older audiophiles wonder why more younger people are not into audio - the bolded statement is one of the turn offs for them.

     

    Back on topic.

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    I think music preferences have become more geographical/regional today.  My live music choices are plentiful -but generally lean to the southern rock/ bluegrass influenced because that’s where I live.  We do get larger concerts from some of the older bands who are still touring, but I wonder what we are missing sometimes.  Journey for example- or ZZTop, the Beatles, The Who, or so many others that in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s would come on to the national and even global scenes presumably due at least in part to unique talents/ creative ability.  Sure, they were backed and marketed by large corporations -but usually for a reason…

     

    Where are they now?  I know the talent and creativity is still there, but it isn’t easy to sort through to find it.

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    50 minutes ago, botrytis said:

    Older audiophiles wonder why more younger people are not into audio - the bolded statement is one of the turn offs for them.

     

    I disagree that higher prices have anything to do with younger people not being into audio. If anything, higher prices get younger people to notice that there's something out there that's better than what they have. As a kid I could never afford Mark Levinson gear, but it made me pay attention and save my money for it. It was aspirational gear. I purchased whatever I could afford, rather than stop being interested in the hobby. 

     

    The $13,000,000 Rolls Royce Sweptail doesn't turn me off from driving or an interest in nice cars. It makes me realize there are people / companies out there striving for something better / different, and I love it. 

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    2 hours ago, joelha said:

    I'll take issue with at least portions of the last two statements:

     

    Here's a $1,000 system that would sound decent:

     

    Speakers - Debut 2.0 // DB62 Bookshelf - https://www.elac.com/db62 -$279.98

     

    Integrated amplifier - NAD C316BEE V2 - https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g4OndonVypo/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html - $399.00

     

    DAC - Schiit Modi Multibit - https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 - $299.00

     

    To stay within budget, we'll cheap out on the cable and interconnects for this system but I've heard Elac budget speakers, Schiit dac's and still own an old NAD amplifier.

     

    I'm sure others could create a combination which would be equally if not more impressive for under $1,000.

     

    The issue is not price it's, as my article stated, that convenience in our society is increasingly trumping quality.

     

    People are less inclined to sit in one place and be blown away by their music.

     

    The other issue is that the brand names I've mentioned are generally unknown to the vast majority of non-audiophiles.

     

    Joel

    Lets can the Debuts, I have them, snore….

    From what I read the Triangle Borea BR03 speakers get a lot of love from reputable reviewers, run $349

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    1 minute ago, davide256 said:

    Lets can the Debuts, I have them, snore….

    From what I read the Triangle Borea BR03 speakers get a lot of love from reputable reviewers, run $349

    I'll take your first-hand experience over my assumption.

     

    Joel

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    2 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    The limited budget of young people make different technologies and services compete against each other.

     

    Same as it ever was. Not related to younger people being uninterested becuase there is expensive stuff available. 

     

     

    3 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    It's Netflix vs. gaming. Vs hq audio, live music, sports etc.

     

    Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

     

     

    4 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    The outcome, in my view, is much less focussed on music and its reproduction, and the gaming side may bear as many potential audiophiles as the music side.

     

    This is exactly what I was saying. Young people have many things competing for their interests and dollars. 

     

     

    5 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    However, the major industry doesn't offer too much interesting stuff for them,

     

    Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

     

     

    5 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    the good offers are from outsiders/newcomers

     

    I don't understand this. Must new businesses remain on the "ouside" and must established businesses refrain from "good offers?"

     

     

    7 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    these are discussed at Reddit and other sources more prone to be read by younger people.

     

    This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

     

     

    6 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    The luxury segment bears almost no value for reasonable sound quality, imho

     

    Value is always in the eye of the beholder and doesn't have much to do with the original statement of high prices turning younger people away from HiFi.

     

     

     

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    3 hours ago, joelha said:

    I'll take issue with at least portions of the last two statements:

     

    Here's a $1,000 system that would sound decent:

     

    Speakers - Debut 2.0 // DB62 Bookshelf - https://www.elac.com/db62 -$279.98

     

    Integrated amplifier - NAD C316BEE V2 - https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g4OndonVypo/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html - $399.00

     

    DAC - Schiit Modi Multibit - https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 - $299.00

     

    To stay within budget, we'll cheap out on the cable and interconnects for this system but I've heard Elac budget speakers, Schiit dac's and still own an old NAD amplifier.

     

    I'm sure others could create a combination which would be equally if not more impressive for under $1,000.

     

    The issue is not price it's, as my article stated, that convenience in our society is increasingly trumping quality.

     

    People are less inclined to sit in one place and be blown away by their music.

     

    The other issue is that the brand names I've mentioned are generally unknown to the vast majority of non-audiophiles.

     

    Joel

    I think you can get everything you need from  a $299 WIIM AMP, incl DAC and DRC and HP-Filter for Sub integration. Leaves you 700 bucks for speakers and perhaps a Sub or a BT turntable

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    26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    Same as it ever was. Not related to younger people being uninterested becuase there is expensive stuff available. 

     

     

     

    Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

     

     

     

    This is exactly what I was saying. Young people have many things competing for their interests and dollars. 

     

     

     

    Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

     

     

     

    I don't understand this. Must new businesses remain on the "ouside" and must established businesses refrain from "good offers?"

     

     

     

    This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

     

     

     

    Value is always in the eye of the beholder and doesn't have much to do with the original statement of high prices turning younger people away from HiFi.

     

     

     

    sorry, blocked for the evening, will return tomorrow morning to respond

     

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    On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
    On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

    It's Netflix vs. gaming. Vs hq audio, live music, sports etc.

     

    Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

    Would you disagree that with this multiplying of options and the introduction of advanced technology wrt marketing/targeting customers, the available stake for young people (16-30 years) in our hobby has changed in nominal size?

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    On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

    Happy you've asked ! Some clarification seems to be neccessary:

    The major Industry related to the discussion (to me) is
    a) The Audio Gear industry
    b) The Music industry
    c) (partly) The Event Management industry

    As major – which  I may need to explain – I do regard mature industries, where actors are concentrating in organization (integrating / grouping – national or international) and change their focus from product quality & serving customers to serving particularly the interest of certain ranges inside their stakeholders. This is in my opion the core problems of most industrial environments after the millenium.

    As a customer I may think I am allowed to have that opinion. If I would be stakeholder in these “certain ranges” I may perhaps disagree with a pure customer-centric viewpoint, but I am looking at gear mostly from the customer side. Certainly there is an art/craft in manufacturing

    The key word in that phrase – otoh – has been interesting (meeting the interest of younger generations in price, function and practicability for their real life situation).

    Here’s another example from real life::
    My now 20 year old son just bought music equipment from Yamaha using his salary he’s earned in his 3rd year civil service as a student. Though, it wasn’t a better DAC than the WIIM mini he has inherited or a better HP than his 5 year old Sony wireless over ear. No -  he decided to go for a E-piano, because he missed playing music himself so much more than the difference he may have heard with a better DAC or headphones. ;-)

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    On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
    On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

    hese are discussed at Reddit and other sources more prone to be read by younger people.

     

    This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

    Depends on your definition of false ;-)
    It might be false to assume that because Reddit has a subreddit called /audiophile, that the posters/readers are prone to spend in top third of the market which atm defines the term “audiophile” with its presence within audiophile press and events.

    There might be other "false" assumptions be possible and not completely untrue ;-)

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    Given my opinion may sound quite critical to extreme capitalism, I’d like to clarify
    1)That I deeply criticize (from a post historical position) real existent socialism (alt. communism) , post-socialism  and it’s outcome in the 21st century. For failed economics, injustice and especially personal freedom related shortcomings of “the chosen few” which usually made/make the majority of people in these systems suffer for the “new” aristorcrazy.
    2)  Imho, the same reasoning /criticism should be applied on capitalist industrial systems, too

    3)   My vision on economic matters may reflect on reality (and data), not on illusions like wealth and “the American dream”, that even in America barely allows the Pareto optimum to be successful in a matter that allows them to live a debt free life

    4) Audio equipment is for the majority never the impediment to musical enjoyment, as most teenager with a walkman/discman/ipod/phone may tell you. 
    5) for the ones it is important, we are discussing and presenting opinions here about equipment, music set ups etc., and I hope that I am not mistaken that a couple of readers may agree with me and I am happy that others agree with your views, too !

    ;-)

     

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    2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

    There is a strange thing about defining value.
    You may value your debts not as important, but your depth holder values them as important, and then their nominal value defines the interest which is attached to it. As soon as your personal valuation starts to differ you may enter a high interest zone, afaik.

    The high priced equipment sector, which in my opinion allows the industry to be kind of “self-nurturing” (which may have good and bad sides, depending which perspective you own), is imho out of any realistic reach for reasonable audio enthusiasts from the Millennials or Gen Z generations.

    However, it is a high interest zone, where consumer attach a great personal valuation on equipment for personal reasons, which aren’t necessarily function / performance related. Imho, acting in these “zones” demands one of the two prepositions:
    1) You can afford the to partake in that market, or
    2) you can’t afford that, but you aren’t afraid of getting indebted for your hobby.

    I would assume, that if not one these conditions are met, the luxury/jewelry side of the audio industry may not be particularly interesting for audio enthusiasts on the long term. To enhance this opinion with prices/nominal values in USD: 5k cables, 20 k Dacs, 40k turntables. 50k amplifier, 100k speakers (stereo set).
    For opinion leader it might be necessary to present it for a couple of reasons I may accept, though the number of hobbyists maintaining a 250k audio system seems quite limited to me. And it’s not about technology, but about reality.
    It might be as interesting as the antique car collection of one of the Dukes in the Loire valley. Oh, look!

    Here are the numbers on which I base my assumptions:
    According to NASDAQ, the USA has a Pareto division (20/80) on personal dept. About 80 % are indebted, the average dept (w/o mortgage) is almost 40 K USD (depending on sources), and only about 15-20% of households may earn more than 200k per year (which means they could afford that debt level if they continue to have that earning). I have seen an average of 10% of available income is used for the interest rates on debts in the US in 2023. As usual,  presenting numbers that are fundamental different may perhaps solve the way we look on the problem.

    Given that Gen Z and Millennials are not proportionally represented in the debt free 20 %, I may conclude that a transition for peripheral interested in this hobby towards actively interested won’t work out  through the sheer fascination of extremes (in prices, sizes and technology). Actually, as always,  my personal view on that could be wrong or uninformed …

    All numbers I can read about student loans, mortgages, consumer credits, credit cards etc. are indicting that the majority of people may need their lifetime to arrive at a debt free status. Which means as well that inheritances in the future will be far from gracious to the younger generations outside the top 20 % (wrt the fact, that this is quite a positive approach, the lower half is imho already a target for the upper one for wealth transfer, but alas I could be wrong, let’s see in 2050 if I was right …)

    As there is a competition of suppression on the top 20 border, the American dream for perhaps 90-95% of the lower 80 stays just an illusion and the outlook for younger generations is even bleaker. This is America, today, seen from the outside, according to available numbers. Your number and perspective may be better. You can’t imagine how much I would enjoy that you would be more correct with that than me with my less enthusiast view on the situation.


    A last word:
    I have the deepest respect what you have achieved personally and your way of managing/moderating this site/forum.
    I may think it’s quite exceptional and far above standard. Which otoh means that this kind of achievement in my personal view is not possible for:
    a) everyone
    b) everyone who tries,
    c) everyone with interest and experience in the field who may like to take the risk and doesn’t fear the 24/7 hard work it needs to maintain success.

    I may assume: It may work only for one or two handful from all of us, or less …

    Acknowledging this does mean to me as well that you may have very specific view on the topic, that naturally differs from mine. And overlaps with mine only in parts at times. All good, if we can agree on that.

    You would wonder if this would work for everybody the same way. But that’s another discussion …

    Happy you did it, it worked for you and hoping that you’re continuing your hard work.

    And now back to the response :

    Hi Tom, as always, a thoughtful and respectful reply from you. Yes, we disagree but that’s part of what makes it interesting. 
     

    An interesting article I recently read, Millennials Set To Become The Richest Generation in History. No clue if it checks out, but it’s food for thought. 

     

    https://fortune.com/2024/02/29/america-wealthest-one-percent-minimum-millennials-richest-generation/amp/

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    1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

    for the ones it is important, we are discussing and presenting opinions here about equipment, music set ups etc., and I hope that I am not mistaken that a couple of readers may agree with me and I am happy that others agree with your views, too !

    ;-)


    All good Tom. Anyone who shares an opinion about audio, in a respectful way, is welcome and will benefit the community. 

     

     

     

     

    2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

    Would you disagree that with this multiplying of options and the introduction of advanced technology wrt marketing/targeting customers, the available stake for young people (16-30 years) in our hobby has changed in nominal size?

     

     


    I’m a bit slow often. What do you mean by “available stake?”

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    10 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

    As a result of having less budget available the number of young/new audiophiles pursuing the hobby may be more limited than in the 80s.


    This is probably the biggest issue for all manufacturers of goods and providers of services that aren’t “needed” to stay alive. The number of things vying for discretionary spending/ disposable income is huge today. Back when many members of this community were kids, there were 3 TV stations and they didn’t even have programming overnight. 
     

    I think stratospherically priced audio could actually be better for the industry by making people aware that it actually exists. I don’t pay much attention to Rolls Royce, but when the company announced the $13M Sweptail, I stood up, shared it with friends, and still remember it years later. 

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