Would you purchase a SACD player right now?

[barrows]

"But the fact remains that a considerable proportion of HD Tracks material is upsampled 44.1 material, sold as 'hi res'."

 

The "factual" nature of the above statement is entirely dependent on what you would determine as "considerable". Since this is a value judgement on your part, and no one here can any idea of your value system, the above statement becomes meaningless, and no such "fact" has been proven.

Yes, HDTracks has sold some files which are questionable in nature, I am not disagreeing with this.

But what is a "considerable proportion"? I have many downloads from HDTracks which are genuine high resolution audio. The problem with such statements is that they perpetuate the (innaccurate) belief that a majority of the HDTracks high resolution files have problems, which is certainly not the case.

 

To relate this to the topic at hand, I think it is important to note (again) that SACDs are certainly not all "genuine" high res either, especially when it comes to rock/pop titles; many are up-converted from 16/44.1 or 16/48 PCM. I just believe it should be pointed out that HDTracks is not alone in sometimes offering questionable provenance high resolution music.

 

[Kevin_O]

SACD rips do not work on a PS3 if they are Classical and the track markers are during the music. The track markers would have to be exactly at a zero-crossing point to make a transparent change. Otherwise there are clicks between movements when you put the 2 tracks together.

 

 

 

[dallasjustice]

I have noticed what you are talking about. But what I've experienced is a pop or thump sound between movements in a symphony if I listen all the way through without skipping to later movements in the symphony.

 

This is not a big deal IME and it's a stretch to say "SACD rips do not work on a PS3 if they are Classical."

 

[Trev or Trevor]

I don't have any classical titles, but I did have the same problem

when converting Dark Side of the Moon to pcm using Saracon with

dither enabled. They played saemlessly without dither.

 

 

[Sri]

What I know is the following: DG sells standard cd flac files on their web site; they specifically say that they do not sell downloadable versions in high res; the DG high res downloads on HD Tracks DG only sells as physical media.

 

You claim is "of course HDTracks has a license from DG". Do you have any proof of that or are you just guessing. Why would DG give a fly by night company like HD Tracks a license to sell material they don't sell?

 

 

[wappinghigh]

Guys, I'm no communist, far from it..but don't you think it's got beyond a joke now that all this content is not available for purchase online in whatever resolution the original material was recorded. Lets face it, the situation right now is a farce. We need to protect the consumer. If "Big Music"..aka "Big Oil" won't do it by themselves,..then legislate that they do..

 

 

 

[ted_b]

1) please take your rant about HDtracks to another thread. This one is about SACD players and their legitimacy (or not) in the future world of computer audio.

2) Im not sure why in the world would you call David Chesky's HDTracks site a fly by night operation, but again take it to your own thread. They sell thousands of downloads monthly, and although have had some issues (like all new download sites, and any that deal with multiple labels, etc... in this burgeoning industry) they are hardly illegitimate.

 

[wappinghigh]

I just wish they would start selling the dsd (.dff) files as well

 

Sure would put the fire under DAC and music software playing developers to bring out more consumer friendly non disc playing SACD alternatives...

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sri - You've brought up your issues with HDtracks in a couple threads now that were not related to your gripes. You cannot post about your disdain for HDtracks in any more threads unless the topic is specifically about issues or you start your own topic about your issues with HDtracks.

 

Your pissing off the CA readers by pushing your agenda in places it is unwelcome.

 

Also, my statements here are in no way intended to stop discussion about HDtracks. I encourage all readers to comment about everything as long as it is done appropriately.

 

 

 

[wappinghigh]

It's a tiny selection..but gotta start somewhere!

 

I bought a few y/d...

 

http://downloadsnow.net/

 

Chris I hope this is OK to post as the availability of quality and "money going back to the artist type" sites where customer's can purchase dsd files as apposed to sacd disks..is essential if we are to get this exciting new development in computer audio off the ground.

 

So it is relevant to the OP.

 

You need something like Korgs new Audiogate program to convert to 24/192 PCM until we get a robust dsd playing DAC solution..

 

Cheers

 

Wap

 

[Sri]

Chris

 

First, I didn't bring up the unmentional subject, I was responding to another posting. Second, I've noticed occasional banner ads on this site from the unmentional company, why don't you ask them? Its in your interest to know how they can sell DG material that DG doesn't sell.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sri - It doesn't matter who you're responding to or whatever. My comments were directed to you as you've found ways to interject your agenda into more than one thread. It's not a bad agenda, it's simply in the wrong place.

 

HDtracks is legally selling DG music. Some labels prefer to sell through other outlets that may get more traffic and offer customer support. I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

HDtracks is offering music that many labels don't offer themselves.

 

[wappinghigh]

DG as you are know doubt aware have always been THE premium label. So it would be sensible for them to make their dsd files available for sale NOW on their own site for download. At the moment they have a great site, but as far as I am aware only sell FLAC. The push to non disc playing of DSD and SACD content will be inevitable, (just as it is with redbook)...so they might as well add .dff files right NOW!

 

The train has well and truly left the station my friend..

 

If they have an issue with HDtracks, then isn't it up to them to sort this out directly with HDTracks. Or offer an even better quality alternative themselves.

 

 

 

[elcorso]

Kevin, I don't have any problems with my SACD rips, Classical or not.

 

r259 = SACD rip version 0.21

 

But I'm talking playing native DSD, not by conversion to PCM.

 

"Dark Side of the Moon" on native DSD, lovely. Long live to SACD!

 

I know out of thread, but if somebody on this one, thinks HDTracks is bad, then never try this one:

 

http://www.unipheyemusic.com/Results.cfm?category=6

 

I DL a 24/192 FLAC album with a great review on six moons.com, than sound and measures (by Audacity) like an MP3. I wrote a week ago a complain, and never got an answer, nor the US$29.99 refund!

 

By the way, I have great DLs from HDTracks, and also not so good. By Hi Rez doesn't mean also good recordings or good players on the stage. The same with DSD rips.

 

Cheers!

 

Roch

 

 

 

[mcatucci]

I must admit that part of my reasoning for picking up a used SACD player is to avoid the uncertainty that comes with HD downloads. With SACD it seems the quality is there, no question. But some of the downloads from various sites offering 24/96 or higher seem questionable. I realize in another year or so these problems should be ironed out but until then SACD is looking real tempting.

 

[wappinghigh]

That's exactly what I have done mc....go for it..good ones are out there at bargain prices...or do what the guys have said and get a cheaper universal Denon or Oppo, if you need other DVD-A or bluray or whatever..But remember to check if these do direct DSD and have analog out...

 

Anyway, you won't regret it..hook everything up by analog..get it all working,..and as you say when direct dsd files-> dac finally matures, you'll have everything all set up anyway ready to go..and a player to on sell, or use when you want to play the odd disc separate from the computer..

 

Way to go man! That's exactly what I have done the last 6 months or so.

 

Cheers and enjoy.

 

[Mark Powell]

Barrows - my 'value system' as you call it comes up with 'none at all should be upsampled 44.1 material'.

 

That is fair, I think, as other companies do that. I am not going to say who, (but would if pushed) as I am not going to praise some companies as the expense of others.

 

Regards

 

[tonyo123]

SACD has ben abandoned except for boutique over-priced offerings. As for players, they are being purchased because of overall CD player capabilities. However, I will not ever buy a SACD, DVD, or CD player. For us with numerous SACDs we will wear out our old players. I have moved on, mainly by analog ripping the SACDs to 24/96 HD files. I am now in server-land with external asynch DAC. This is where the industry is going and this is where I have been investing over the last 3 years. My one caveat, I will be making one final purchase, the Pink Floys WYWH SACD. I will accept my $35 punishment begrugindly but that is it for me. It will be on my server playing from Foobar2000 within the day.

 

[barrows]

That is what I thought you meant, but others may not interpret it that way. So, we could say that the vast majority of HDTracks high resolution downloads are exactly that, and there are also a handful of questionable downloads available from them, which they are trying to deal with.

I know of no other download site, which offers titles they did not originally record (AIX, Naim, BSO, etc), which has not had some of the same problems as HDTracks. This is an entirely different thing for those who only sell titles they recorded themselves, as those folks have complete knowledge of their own titles.

 

"That is fair, I think, as other companies do that. I am not going to say who, (but would if pushed) as I am not going to praise some companies as the expense of others."

 

Why not be transparent about this? More knowledge can only be good for music lovers.

 

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Barrows, the only ones I am sure of is Naim, with a very limited catalogue, all of which I believe they record themselves, and Linn, much of which I believe they record themselves. And also with a limited catalogue, though less so than Naim. (As an aside, I have heard the production of music by HiFi manufacturers described as a form of 'vanity publishing'.) There are others of whom I have no experience.

 

As they are both British, as am I, my reluctance to name them was simply that I did not wish to appear anti-American. No other reason at all.

 

The magazine I quoted started to do such testing about six months ago. Initially 30% of the HD Tracks material they reviewed was upsampled 44.1. One or two others were close to that. Of course they do not review all that much of this material, so they may have just been unlucky. But it was the response from the providers that surprised me, only excuses, no denials or criticism of the testing.

 

Naim and Linn also produce lower res material, usually 48K, and this is their older recordings. But their online catalogues do tell you, right alongside the band/group/orchestra or whatever, precisely what you are getting, and their prices, set by resolution only, nothing else, reflect this. I have only purchased a little hi res material, and only from Naim, more because I am somewhat of a Naim fan than for any more sensible reason.

 

As time has gone by the magazine has been finding less and less upsampled material. This month, none of it is.

 

Regards

 

[Miska]

SACD has ben abandoned except for boutique over-priced offerings.

 

It doesn't seem so:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_st?qid=1320134186&rh=n%3A229816%2Cp_n_binding_browse-bin%3A382529011&sort=-releasedate

 

If the link doesn't work, choose Music -> SACD -> Sort by release date.

 

 

[Sri]

At least for classical, I have a pretty well defined purchase technique. Sometime I’m looking for a particular composer. I go to my copy of the latest Gramophone or Penguin guide and look for the best performances. Sometime I’ll hear a performance and look for recorded work by that artist. Living in NYC, I have my choice of several world class performers pretty much every night of the week. And sometimes I’ll just read of a new recording or an up and coming performer.

 

Using that technique, the number I find available as anything but a standard cd is vanishingly small. All the sturm und drang that I read here about the “obvious superiority” of high resolution and SCAD is apparently lost on the people investing real money to satisfy the market demands of real customers.

 

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Personally, living in the UK, I have never seen an SACD in the shops, though I have not looked very hard. I am the only person I know who has ever heard of SACD.

 

Nor in my local public library, which has several thousand classical pieces and where I have looked harder. All CDs. Not even 'dual layer' discs.

 

I was only looking out of curiosity, My main machine plays only Red Book CDs, but I have a cheap DVD player for films (hardly ever watched) which does play SACDs and I looked so I could try one. No success.

 

Dead as wax cylinders in the UK, don't know about USA, still common in Japan I believe. Betamax, DAT, Minidisk, SACD, not exactly Sony's finest hours.

 

Their Blu Ray never got off the ground here either. Machines are in the shops for one tenth of their original price and often totally free with a new TV.

 

People just don't want a new format every week. A friend just saw my fancy new Naim streamer. She called it 'a stationary iPod.'

 

 

 

[Miska]

Personally, living in the UK, I have never seen an SACD in the shops, though I have not looked very hard. I am the only person I know who has ever heard of SACD.

 

At least here in Finland, there are practically no CDs in shops anymore either. Really small selection of chart hits and some old boring reissues. Something like 100 titles total. In biggest cities, there are some small shops dedicated to some genre(s), most of these selling more vinyl than CDs.

 

Today most music is sold online. Be it physical discs or downloads. So, please go to all the various internet stores and see what is available. amazon.co.uk is good place for you to begin with.

 

 

[Mark Powell]

I totally agree. CDs are still fairly easily available, but The town I live near (Southampton, on the channel coast) has about 500,000 people and only one record shop which is closing soon. Five years ago there were about eight.

 

CDs and DVDs are still common in the supermarkets. Blu Ray has almost vanished from the shelves after a lot of hard selling when they first appeared. SACDs were never available in retail shops, just a few by mail order.

 

Steamers. There is a quite vigorous and dynamic chain of audio/TV shops called Richer Sound. Does very well. They have streamers, mainly Cambridge Audio and Marantz. I was in the Southampton shop recently, an assistant told me they have had them for about two months and have yet to sell their first one.

 

I have not purchased a 'physical' disk for some time and doubt I ever will again. Ripped all my CDs, and some from the local public library to WAVs and bought a few downloads.