PS Audio Bridge

[barrows]

I use a laptop computer, and I do a rather primitive job of "measuring" airborne RF coming out of it. I use an old dual frequency avalanche transceiver to listen for the RF noise. The transceiver has a volume control, so I can, in a sense, adjust its sensitivity. I can easily find sources of RFI with this unit (although this is hardly really good analysis, as the bandwidth is somewhat limited), as an example, some of the worst offenders in most homes are the common place dimmer switches, especially when set to an intermediate brightness level.

By "measuring" RFI output from the computer I have found that setting the computer on a Symposium Svelte Shelf (two layers of stainless steel, separated by a dense foam) on the top of the rack does a very good job of sheiding the RF emmissions from the components below. A carbon fiber shelf would probably do a very good job as well (I have noticed that Gordon Rankin, of Wavelength, usually has his computers at shows on carbon shelves). My rack shelves are also at a considerable spacing. I also try and isolate the AC power for the computer by plugging its power supply into a dedicated line filter, as separate from the audio components' supplies as possible.

My laptop is an older (black) MacBook, the newer models with the unibody aluminum cases may emit less RF, the same is likely true for the aluminum Minis. If one is using one of the power bricks, be aware that they seem to emit a lot of RF, and should be placed as far away from audio components and other cables as possible. While there does appear to be significant RF coming from the computer, it does not seem to be all that bad in comparison to some other components, and not even close to that which comes off of my moderate sized Sony Bravia TV. I do not even have a TV in the same room as my audio system, as I keep music listening as my top priority.

 

 

[timequest]

I must admit that Zig’s reference to the “Human Centipede” made me chuckle. Now, that is one gross and deranged movie!!

 

I certainly believe that fair criticism of any product and company is an important component of any forum, where members are networking with like-minded people to gain knowledge and provide feedback. The information gained from a good discussion group can play a significant role in the buying decisions of consumers within this niche market. This is precisely the reason why unfounded criticism is unfair and even unjust to the products and companies whom are most often not around to defend themselves.

 

I would not defend a product or a company, or even a person, if I didn’t truly believe that the criticisms leveled against said entities wasn’t unfounded. Some of the things I’ve been reading about the Bridge have been blown totally out of perspective. What’s troubling is that some of the most critical criticisms have come from folks like Zig, who have no hands-on experience at all.

 

Again, Zig has a pretty sharp sense of humor, which I do appreciate. I just wish he’d be a bit more civil and respectable of folks like PM, who have certainly earned the respect of the community.

 

Cheers!!!

 

_Ben

 

[ChrisG]

As apparently one of the few people that has owned both Linn (first generation Akurate DS, current player is a Klimax DS w/ dynamik -- now upgraded to KDS/1) and the PWD w/ Bridge, I guess I am in a position to comment on the SQ, user experience, network items, etc.

 

I have been using Sonos since 2005 throughout my house and in my listening room (10 zones total, all hardwired). Consequently, I've been listening to FLAC files exclusively since that time. Before the PWD/Bridge, I was using a Cullen modified ZP80 for the listening room since it has much lower jitter. I originally fed it into a Cullen modified PSA DLIII, (rest of my system: preamp was a W4S STP-SE, Usher Mini Dancer II speakers, Parasound JC1 monoblocks modded by Empirical Audio) and bought a PWD back in October 2009 because of the claims that it sounded much better than the very well reviewed DLIII. The final part of the decision for me to buy the PWD was that the Bridge could be added and I'd have a networked music player, like my Sonos setup, that could play hi-res files.

 

The ZP80 into the PWD was a definite step up from the DLIII. I won't go into a whole lot of detail, but let's just say that I started spending a lot more time with my music collection. As everyone knows here, one of the big pluses once you go with computer audio is that all of your files are at your fingertips, but I had had my music collection at my finger-tips for 4 years, so it wasn't the novelty of that experience, what drew me in was the analog sound of the PWD and I wasn't getting any listener fatigue, I couldn't wait to get the Bridge!

 

Well, it turns out the Bridge took longer to come out than expected, so I picked up an ex-dem Akurate DS w/ dynamik in the meantime and retired the PWD with the intention of comparing the ADS with the Bridge once it came out. When I picked up the ADS, I also switched from some old Buffalo NAS that were not UPnP to a Windows Home Server, added a gigabit switch, loaded Asset UPnP on the WHS and used Chorus DS as the control point.

 

The sound of the ADS was better than the ZP80 into the PWD and I could also play hi-res files. No network issues when playing, gapless played just as I had come to expect it with Sonos. All good. Chorus DS works great too.

 

I became a beta Bridge tester in August 2010 and right around that time were were warned by Paul McG on the forums that the Bridge would not do gapless immediately -- if I remember correctly this was the first time that this issue was raised. So I hooked the Bridge up and my network saw it immediately and, WOW did it sound good. Much better than the ADS...my complaint about both ADS models is that it isn't very warm sounding and, to my ears, sounds a bit thin. The PWD/Bridge combo certainly didn't suffer from these issues. No dropout issues on Redbook, but dropouts occurred on any FLAC files higher than 96/24, bummer, but I figured they'd get this and gapless solved soon and I sold the ADS for just about what I bought it for -- right before the next Gen ADS was released, talk about good timing!

 

Anyway, I spent a good 8-9 months with the PWD/Bridge combo and it is a good sounding set-up. During this time, I upgraded my pre-amp to a Parasound JC2 and upgraded my speakers to Vivid Audio B1s, so nothing was getting in the way of what the PSA combo could do SQ-wise. I didn't have the micro-skip issues that a lot of people (Ben for one) had and I do think that this is a Twonky issue, not necessarily a problem with the Bridge. The only issues I had were the hi-res FLAC dropouts and the lack of gapless play.

 

The hi-res dropouts I could get around since I didn't have a huge number of them, but the gapless issue just became too much for me. I couldn't stand listening to songs that just cut off when I knew they sequed into another, it got more and more annoying. Like Matt said, they committed to fixing it by the end of January 2011 and it still isn't fixed, so there are evidently some big roadblocks preventing a solution.

 

[i still can't figure out why PSA didn't feel gapless playback was necessary when originally designing the system, a very big miss on their part. In hindsight, I would have not bought the PWD/Bridge if I knew that the Bridge could not do gapless.]

 

So I went to listen to the new ADS and the original KDS and the KDS sounded much better. I did not compare the new ADS to the Bridge, but I did take the KDS home before I bought it and the original KDS is much better than the Bridge, but with the price difference, it better be. And, for those that don't know, Linn just updated the boards in the KDS and owners can upgrade their KDS to the new boards too. I just upgraded and got it back on Friday and it is amazing how it improves on the sound of the original which was already the best digital player I had ever heard.

 

Personally, coming from where I started, I prefer a networked solution so I don't have to have a computer in the room and so I can play music anywhere in my house (I did briefly ponder the USB DAC/iTunes solution before going back to Linn). Say what you will about Sonos, but for background music it works very well and is much cheaper than the Crestron solution I had previously -- I still have the ZP80 connected in my listening room in case we want to do "party mode" in the house and have all zones sync'd.

 

In my setup, Asset UPnP had no problems seeing the Bridge or either of the Linn DS players, truly plug n play. I do think the firmware upgrade process is better from Linn than PSA, primarily because it does a better job communicating what is happening during the process.

 

I still prefer Chorus to eLyric as a control point and I think Asset UPnP and the rest of the dBPoweramp products are much better than their eLyric server that is in beta, so I don't see a reason to switch.

 

As for "culture", Linn is much more laid back and matter-of-fact when communicating to owners on their forums and they usually let their engineers communicate to owners. Paul does most of the talking on the PSA forums and, while I think he means well, he sometimes heads off into technical territory where he might be better off letting one of his employees respond instead...I think he means well, but he does tend to over-market his products in both their marketing and on the forums. Frankly this is both good and bad -- he set a high bar for expectations with the Bridge and so owners expect a lot. But once they get the gapless and hi-res issues fixed, it will sell itself, it is very good for the price.

 

[barrows]

I agree that being unable to properly handle gapless playback is a big drawback for the PWD/Bridge combo-hopefully PS Audio will eventually solve this issue, and the software sound will continue to improve as well.

As to your sonic preference for the Linn Klimax DS, I do think you should mention the price difference between these two DACs to be fair. My understanding is the Klimax is around $20K, right? And the PWD/Bridge is around $3500.00 or so, right? At his price differential I would expect the KDS to be somewhat better sounding.

 

[timequest]

Well said barrows.

 

Excellent piece of writing Chris (as always). Good to "hear" from you, as we miss you over at the PS-A forum!

 

[ChrisG]

while I didn't mention the price (and I rarely pay retail!), I did say:

 

"the original KDS is much better than the Bridge, but with the price difference, it better be."

 

I also said this about the PWD/Bridge: "once they get the gapless and hi-res issues fixed, it will sell itself, it is very good for the price."

 

Frankly if they'd have gotten gapless fixed, I probably wouldn't have gone looking...and my wallet would be much happier!

 

[cpunter]

I wanted to form my own opinion so I bought the unit and have written a lengthy review of it that got longer and longer the more I learned about it. In a nutshell I think it is a great dac and perhaps the best sounding streaming solution out there. Judged purely for its sound I do feel however that it doesn't hold up to older reference class dacs such as those from Levinson, Wadia, DAX.

 

Read the review on hifi-advice:

http://www.hifi-advice.com/psaudio-pwd-review.html

 

CP

 

[Philande]

You may not have to "throw the baby out with the bath water". As many of you have written in your posts, there are many connection types that produce wonderful sounding music. Part of the allure of the PS Audio DAC / Bridge combination is the I2S connection and using a home network. From all that I've read, the PS Audio DAC is a special unit at its price point. I did consider it before making a different purchase. If there was an I2S capable server avilable at the time, I probably would have pulled the trigger and purchased both.

 

If I was unhappy with the DAC /Bridge combination and wanted to use the I2S connection for the PWD, I'd check with Jesus at Simple Designs. I couldn't be more happy with the performance of this connection. I know he was working on providing an I2S connection from a Sonore into a PWD.

 

I am sorry this sounds so much like an ad but, Jesus has helped me every step of the way. He has been available on line and by phone to answer all of my questions. I have never experienced such customer support. I believe that you'll have the performance of the PW Transport with the convenience of a music server and HI Res capability as well.

 

Phil

 

 

[ChrisG]

CP -

Nice review, but I don't think it is complete without mentioning that the Bridge will not play gapless and I don't believe you reported this in your review. I think any review of a music streamer or software for computer audio playback must include this, especially when comparing to the CD listening experience.

 

Phil -

The Sonore looks interesting for those looking for an all-in-one solution, but for people looking for a Bridge alternative to use with their PWD, does it offer gapless playback? I don't seen this mentioned in it's specs.

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

[timequest]

CP:

 

Nice review...And really nice gear!

 

Can you tell me which Bridge firmware version were you using? Did you have a chance to play around with the different versions? As you may know, some of the Bridge firmware versions are "darker" than others, while other versions are actually more airy in the treble...

 

Thanks,

 

_Ben

 

[catastrofe]

I've been communicating with Jesus at Sonore for some time. To the best of my knowledge, his server solution does handle gapless.

 

[Afveep]

I've received a very timely response from Christiaan the reviewer of the PWD/Bridge review. For those interested, he used Bridge firmware v 0.2.12, the most recent. Many people hear a considerable difference between firmware versions. He feels that his findings regarding the "treble dryness" was consistent though across all of the inputs, so in theory that would leave out the Bridge as a contributor.

 

[Philande]

The app for playback on mpod and mpad both have gapless support for the Sonore. I haven't had any issues with this.

 

Phil

 

 

[cpunter]

Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for your response. Indeed, I also read that the firmware matters. But I haven't played with it yet as I wanted the latest version for stability reasons. I may go back to 2.8 at some point though.

 

CP

 

[barrows]

I have heard the PWD/Bridge quite a lot, and I would never describe its treble as dry? Just goes to show how important it is to listen to stuff in your own system, with your own ears, to come to any conclusions about how it sounds.

Another observation-so far, all comparisons of the PWD to other DACs has been against competitors that cost at least (if not more than) twice as much. I think this fact alone speaks highly of the sonics of the PWD-it is only being compared to much more expensive DACs. I feel these comparisons are appropriate, because it does sound like a much more expensive DAC.

If anyone tries a Sonore server with it via I2S, I really look forward to hearing your impressions. This may be a great way to go for those who do not want to "wait" for the Bridge to be perfected. I know the PWD sounds fantastic via the PWD by I2S.

 

[cpunter]

I agree, this is also what I always advocate on my site and throughout all reviews. It's just that some people proclaim the PWD as the best there is and it isn't, compared to more expensive dacs. However, I also said that it is currently the best computer audio solution I have heard. In its price range there is nothing I heard that does better. Regarding the treble dryness: have you compared it to various other dacs? I have to add that I am very sensitive to treble dryness because my system (Magnepans) reveils that very easily. Some other systems aren't that critical. But if I'm not mistaken, that's also mentioned in the review. If not, then I should add it.

 

[Al Jones]

Barrows wrote "If anyone tries a Sonore server with it via I2S, I really look forward to hearing your impressions. This may be a great way to go for those who do not want to "wait" for the Bridge to be perfected."

 

The current Sonore HDMI I2S output board works with DAC's from K&K Audio and Wyred for Sound, but is not compatible with the PS Audio implementation.

 

Sonore are still working on a PS Audio-specific HDMI I2S board.

 

Al Jones

 

 

[vortecjr]

actually I have it working here with our version two interface. When testing is done I need to order a small batch of interfaces to have in stock. Then I'm willing to send a unit out for evaluation to some of you on this post for additional feedback.

 

BTW I have an alternate that will allow Windows and MAC users to play ball, but this in development stages and a few weeks away at best:)

 

Jesus R

www.sonore.us