Audiophile Myths: True or False

[Paul R]

I can clearly hear the difference in different speaker cables, and if I can, then anyone not stone deaf in both ears should be able to.

 

That isn't to say that zipcord or any old 12gauge wire cannot do a spectacular job as speaker wire, but anti-cable or Kimber cable does a much better job to my ears.

 

I would class speaker cable differences as a fact, not a myth.

 

-Paul

 

 

[CG]

"I often wonder why folks don't simply say 'I listened and I don't hear it.' In other words, to own their perceptions rather than attempt to make declarations of Universal Truth (add reverb to those last two words)."

 

This is by far the best perspective I've heard, here or elsewhere.

 

Another bad aspect to these discussions is the lack of real physics behind some of the analyses. This applies to analyses from both sides of the argument as well as the marketing driven narrative.

 

Many people, even and maybe especially engineers, tend to forget that an awful lot of what is taught and applied daily is by necessity simplified. But that doesn't mean that there isn't more to things.

 

For example, if a half ton meteor lands on the surface of the Earth, it *will* affect the Earth's planetary motion. Not by a lot, but it is certainly possible to calculate the effect. Unless they really were looking for it, some scientists 0.12 parsecs away wouldn't notice that change, nor would they care. It wouldn't even affect the landing coordinates for any airline into any airport. But, if it landed on your car in your driveway you'd probably have to pay attention.

 

 

 

 

[RankStranger]

"1. Cupping of the hands around the ears will definitely change what you are hearing"

 

Therefore, unless you intend to do all your listening with your hands cupped around your ears the exercise is pointless. In an otherwise quiet room, facing away from the music source it is stupid.

 

RS

 

[elcorso]

This time I have to agree with you Barry!

 

On some thread I said I don't believe on ultra expensive cables, being speaker, interconnects or power cable, and now computer cables. But I do believe in very good, 'normal' price Hi Rez cables. How much is 'normal'? what I can afford, but not necessarily the most expensive ones are the best for your system. There is a huge speculation on 'Hi End' cables price. I don't care if they have silver, gold, 0.00000001 oxygen free cooper or gorila ear wax in the dielectric, always I like to make a listening test. When I can, if not, I have to follow recommendations from somebody I trust.

 

The other day I was reading on Cardas Audio web site measurements regarding cable resonances, garden variety achieves 5.2% versus 2% on Cardas brand. Only 3.2% difference? Somebody could say! But if you apply this 3.2% in the musical chain: Player -> Preamp -> Amp -> Speakers (everything interconnected by a cable) you will get a multiplier effect: 100 x 0.968 x 0.968 x 0.968= 0.907 that is 9.3% reflection/distortion at the end of the speakers. And I know human hearing is already affected (can hear it) about 5% distortion, trained ears less than this.

 

By experience I do believe that some cables needs burn-in, mainly the dielectrics needs some current for the final set-in.

 

Regarding cables on the carpet, or with some 'separators', for my taste it depends if your carpet is charged with static current or not. In my country the humidity is so high all the year, that is very difficult to get static somewhere. But some years we get some on the no rain, high winds season, December to January.

 

On very well recorded and reproduced music it is sometimes difficult to notice differences like in the Gordon Gow demonstration, but a well trained ear will notice the difference, but this is also depended in wich speaker cable they utilized...

 

I know, we audiophiles, had being stolen with a lot of sh*t like the 'green pen', 'Schumann Resonance generator' (where the blue light is more important than the frequency), Audio Prism Ground Control (the worst of the bullsh*ts), etc. etc. But it is our fault, for being obsessives, since the 'placebo effect' is a wonderful thing: right know, on recent studies, 'placebo medicine' get better results than the regular one, by a 60%! ...Seek minds is what we have...

 

Best regards,

 

Roch

 

PS/ If somebody is interested to read about cable measurements follow this links:

 

CARDAS: Resonances on interconnects & speaker cables

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=10&pagestring=Measuring+Cable+Resonance

 

CARDAS: Dielectric on interconnects & speaker cables

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=faqs&content_id=4&pagestring=Cable+Design

 

Resonances on Coaxial cable

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/antennas/coax/coax_velocity_factor.php

 

[bdiament]

Hi Roch,

 

"...On very well recorded and reproduced music it is sometimes difficult to notice differences like in the Gordon Gow demonstration, but a well trained ear will notice the difference, but this is also depended in wich speaker cable they utilized..."

 

I believe we each determine the value of any addition we make to our own systems; in other words, value is in the ear of the listener. (One man's jewel is another's forgery and vice versa.)

 

Having listened to a lot of cables and finding some that, to my ears, truly do a much better job of "getting out of the way" (what I want all my gear to do), I have come to consider the better ones components in their own right and not merely "accessories". The best I've heard are well beyond my budget and if they weren't, they'd be in my system today.

 

Based on my own experience, the idea of well designed cables sounding the same as "plain line cord" is very much like saying a Lambourghini and a Geo will provide similar performance. I find this true regardless of the quality of the recording or system; as I mentioned, the change from zip cord to even a modest "audiophile" cable (and I do mean modest in that case) was immediate and obvious in my car. In my listening room/studio with the Maggie system, it is very easy to hear a cable change over its first few days of use.

 

Also, I think numbers (such as percentages) can be very misleading as they can make the significance seem much less than, in my view, it actually is. How significant? Well, the cables I use to connect my microphones during recordings cost roughly triple (!) what the mics cost. (I haven't heard mics I deem more true; the cables help show why I feel that way. And they are only the third or fourth best cables I've heard.)

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[PeterSt]

Barry, I fullheartedly agree with your post. Great post within itself btw.

 

Especially the part about not being able afterwards - and much later - to imagine how you earlier couldn't hear or see the difference. This just is so true. At least for me it is.

All is a matter of experience experience experience.

 

But I have a thing which to me looks like a desease, although I don't think it really is. But I can't explain it ...

 

Let's say that for the past 5 years for me it's day in day out a quest for the best sound. This, to an extend that may be unique, because of the way I am involved in audio sofware and hardware at the same time. 5 years is very many days at trying to improve and improve, and let's say that in this excessive amount of explicit listening hours quite some experience has been built up, but also quite some pile of various (new !) aspects of what to listen for popped up. Now :

 

Whether this it is a very new aspect or whether it is something my focus is upon for whatever reason, when I'm cruisin around in my car after that, I tend to hear back those aspects. In 90% of cases this is about positive things, like how cymbals can sound. So, this is about my well tuned home audio against a no tuned at all (but not the worst) car audio system.

If I count all the good aspects I could squeeze from my home system (which includes the special software, OS tweaks and DAC appliances), by full automation the same aspects become audible on my car system ?

You don't want to know how many times I thought it really couldn't be that the stupid car system would be that good, and I tried to focus on the bad things in the car audio to get rid of the idea. This always helps, and sets my mind at rest again. Still, how can it be, and what kind of placebo thing is this.

 

Only last week I experienced the thing a kind of upside down;

I applied changes in my home system at a level I never worked on - amplifier related. The effect of it was a totally grainless sounding system, while I never experienced it as grainy at all before. But it was, and could only be determined by taking out the grain (all simply put, but this is what it comes down to).

For the first time the same (??) phenomenon now acted normally; being in the car after this change, made the enormous grain from the car system apparent to me, never experiencing grain from the car system before.

 

The latter would be a normal situation, but the former story not. Well, unless my car system *is* that good at many aspects.

I am too serious about this all to ignore it, but I really like it better to think I have some phsychological problem or something. If cymbals from my home system sound better after a tweak, I hear the same virtue in my car system ?

 

But I'm afraid my car system isn't that bad, but again it needs the experience of the change which makes you focus on it unconciously, to next discover the real merit of the aspect concerned.

 

Peter

 

[PeterSt]

A small story which actually is a secret. Well, I hope it isn't read by the subjects, and otherwise it's not the most big deal ...

 

We know about this little "bells" of various mixtures (like gold, silver) we can place on a wall etc. They seem to work well for audio, or at least everybody applying them will hear a big difference. But ok, I'm not about that, and btw I never apply such things.

 

These bells were reviewed by 6Moons. Positive again. They work. But ...

 

What the 6Moons review did not dare to tell about, was how these same bells mounted under the hood of the car, made the car run more efficient. Same bells, same reviewers.

 

Btw, first hand story, although you get it second hand (from me).

I must add to it that it needs some psychedelic thinking (like the reviewers in question are) to discover many more virtues of these bells, all not related to audio at all. Like "being able" to put them under your car hood in the first place ...

 

That's all.

Peter

 

 

[wgscott]

 

[PeterSt]

While we're at it anyway, maybe people like to read about the software version of the Schumann Synchronizer : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1357.msg12584#msg12584 (my own story).

 

And here's my own experience about the device : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1357.msg12668#msg12668

This is not all that much about the experience itself, but about how without incurring for the placebo effect someone else can come to the same experience. I think it's a nice read.

 

In a previous post I just told I don't apply these kind of things. True, but I try a few here and there - only to look for the truth in them. And for fun.

 

By now we are sure that the Schumann device attracks dust. Or at least loads the room with electromagnetism so the dust catches everywhere. On that matter we can say it may do something to sound as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[barrows]

"Therefore, unless you intend to do all your listening with your hands cupped around your ears the exercise is pointless. In an otherwise quiet room, facing away from the music source it is stupid."

 

The point is that cupping of the hands around the ears will change the sound-no one is suggesting listening this way. But the test can give one an idea of what reflections from the behind the listener are doing to the sound, and depending on the results, point out adjustments to the system/room which could result in better performance.

 

 

 

[elcorso]

Hi Barry, I have to agree with you again. I stated percentages since a lot of people like this, if not, take a look at Stereophile reviews. I don't believe in measurements in reviews since there are gear that measure very good on the lab, and sound like sh*t, and viceversa. But the example in percentages shows you how the geometric multiplying effect at the end of the multiple cable chain brings you low SQ with less than accurate cables.

 

I refuse to pay (even if I would have the money) for exotic cable prices.

 

I have some friends on Hi End music gear retail, and I know the markup regarding cables, believe me, it achieves sometimes 300%! For comparison: Speakers 50%, an other gear 100%. Of course there is a lot of variation in the markup, but in cables, the bigger the price, the higher the markup.

 

By the way, I buy my cables direct from the manufacturer, and they are excellent. There are not cheap cables, but the best I have in my long audiophile life. They are from Grover Huffman. He doesn't has the dealer over-price and no advertising costs. And, of couse, this is not advertising.

 

You know, in my country we need four wheels cars (very nasty roads), and a four wheels Toyota is much better than a four wheels Mercedes, BMW or Porsche. The price, more or less the same. Since the Toyota is stronger, better suspension for bad roads, and last forever.

 

Best regards,

 

Roch

 

[PeterSt]

You know, in my country we need four wheels cars (very nasty roads)

 

Well, overhere 2 wheel cars suffice. But we call them bicycles.

 

Ok, just kidding, but I really had to laugh. I'm sure you meant four wheel driven cars. Now others will laugh, because this is my dutch explanation. Haha.

 

[sandyk]

"By now we are sure that the Schumann device attracks dust. Or at least loads the room with electromagnetism so the dust catches everywhere. On that matter we can say it may do something to sound as well."

Peter

A Negative Ion generator can also help with getting a good night's sleep, and it also causes the dust to drop out of the air,and can even make the wall behind it quite black. especially if a member of the family smokes outside.

You then need to wash the wall after a few months !!!

I never tried to listen to Audio while one was in use though.

Alex

 

P.S.

Barry

A nice post !

 

[elcorso]

Schumann is very good! On music composition, please try Alessandra Ammara, on Schumann piano music...

 

I don't have, Peter, the software to play Schumann Resonance that is 7.83 hZ (the frequency at what the planet earth 'resonate'). And I don't believe my subwoofers has this capabilities. If they were capable I will run away, I don't know where, since my little country has 57 volcanos, 7 of them in activity.

 

What I have is an small peace of gear from Acoustic Revive, with a blue led in front, if you cover the blue led, the effect disappears! My wife is a clinical psychologist, who has also a degree in neuro science, and I read something regarding blue light and his calming effect, they said it is comparable to the cannabis (I don't know, since I tried only the blue light).

 

I know they are bigger Schumann Resonance emitters in New Zeland (for the full house) and in England.

 

Th 'specialists' saids that the problem is the 7.83 hz is missing right now, because of RFI, EMI, et al, pollution, and right now is achieving 12 hZ, and when it achieves the full 12 hZ the world will finish, this coincide with the Maya prediction about the end of the world by March, 2012.

 

I don't think this is out of thread, since sometimes, we audiophiles, are so crazy (at least I am!)

 

Regards,

 

Roch

 

[sandyk]

"Th 'specialists' saids that the problem is the 7.83 hz is missing right now, because of RFI, EMI, et al, pollution, and right now is achieving 12 hZ, and when it achieves the full 12 hZ the world will finish, this coincide with the Maya prediction about the end of the world by March, 2012."

Roch

There is a lot of speculation that this is merely leading up to the reversal of the magnetic fields of the North and South Pole which has been reported to have happened many times previously in Earth's history.

P.S.

If earth slows and stops in it's rotation as some seem to believe, prior to reversing direction,perhaps Clark Kent can come to the rescue and thwart the Maya prediction!!!

 

Alex

 

[sandyk]

Duplicate post due to VERY slow response to "Save"

 

[PeterSt]

Nice story Roch. Thank you.

 

and I read something regarding blue light and his calming effect, they said it is comparable to the cannabis (I don't know, since I tried only the blue light).

 

Well, assuming the blue light isn't special as such, now we know why modern audio equipment carries blue lights, right ?

 

Anyway, I think it is completely true that the whole thing creates an effect on just you (so, not the audio), I'd say rather well matching the cannabis effect. I don't have the experience myself but at least I see people using it "to open their ears". Furthermore, I described that similar effect myself of the Schumann device and I think I was completely open to it all (which usually means I won't believe a thing of it, until it grabs me by automation). Btw, my light was hidden behind some cabinet, so I never saw it.

 

For me it's exciting to discover *why* things work. Next I will try to proceed on it by means of way more deep "investigation" and find the physics of it. Very interesting ...

 

Regards,

Peter

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

In the realm of my last post ...

[a bit confusing this will be, sorry for that]

 

There ever was a time "house parties" where new, and I think it was there where XTC was introduced to the world. But why ?

 

Again without really knowing, I think it is the opposite of a calming effect. It must be special to some "sweeping up" state of mind, combined with being able to do physically more than normally allowed. So I once setup a test ...

 

We had a kind of cosy coming together with some neighbours. Everybody above 40, some above 60. Nobody was into "house" really, if music lovers at all. So I carefully started to play some lower beat house and revved that up slowly. People were in the mood anyway. What happened was that in the end everybody was jumping up and down in their seats, hopping through the room just because that kind of "music" (haha) is doing something to you. Adrenaline, whatever. The beat - the very fast beat.

Everybody got totally wild and it was really no sight for those actually too old people for this.

 

Changing the state of mind will be key to these effects, and it won't be necessarily placebo's going on. Still they too change the mind (not being objective anymore).

 

In this context we could think about how a negative thing the placebo actually -not- is. Or maybe better put : how it can help to point out a difference somewhere instead of let people notice objectively, them just not being *able* to discover the difference because of the lack of experience.

Of course the placebo has to be a real thing, and not be about an aspirin which actually is sugar.

 

[Paul R]

I didn't know anyone was making devices to deliver this kind of signal, but I know for absolute fact that very low frequency resonance units were being considered as untraceable assassination weapons by the military back in the late 70's and early 80s, as well as communications devices, albeit with very low bandwith!

 

I doubt any of the devices that I found with a quick Google search have any harmful side effects, but wow... you could have given yourself a heart attack Peter! A signal strong enough to rock a 100kg speaker?

 

-Paul

 

P.S. The "blue light" bit of this probably came from the "blue lights" floating around in the air that people occasionally see before an Earthquake. That people do see these blue lights is a fact, what causes them is not known, and the subject of many many theories and myths. Perhaps Peter's experiment, if continued long enough, might have generated some floating "will 'o the wisp" blue lights for further study. (grin)

 

 

 

 

[wgscott]

Sounds a lot more likely to cause an earthquake...

 

[Paul R]

I am oscillating back and forth on that one.

 

[bdiament]

Hi Paul,

 

"...very low frequency resonance units were being considered as untraceable assassination weapons by the military back in the late 70's and early 80s..."

 

This reminds me of having read somewhere that the British were experimenting with a very low frequency "weapon" half a century ago; I believe the frequency was ~4 Hz and it caused the "target" to lose sphincter control.

 

I would imagine this was around the same time those folks learned that bass radiates omnidirectionally. !

 

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[Paul R]

Are you saying the British target of that device met his own personal WaterLoo?

 

Ah, I think I could have lived without the picture that put in my head...

 

The EM devices I am thinking of were designed to "plug into" the household power panel, distributing the evil vibes over the built in wiring. It would supposedly lull a person to his final sleep, peacefully, with no fuss or muss. I know one problem the inventors had with it was they used tube based electronics, and they kept blowing their tubes. It was also rather noticeable attached to a fuse panel... Probably because it was (most likely) designed on a PDP-11 knock off in the Urals somewhere.

 

-Paul

 

 

[elcorso]

Paul, no weapons please! In 1948 some wise politician in my beloved country cancelled de army, and military degrees, then the military budget went to education, that are bringing their fruits now after all this years. But the budget for road construction and repairs is never enough: It rains too much, we have a lot of mountains (then bridges) over huge rivers with constant floods. I recently read a lot about sound waves (low frequency and ultra high frequency) for destruction (similar to 'heavy metal' music?), and I hope 'our' lovely music calm down scientific, military and politicians in order to get peace to the Planet Earth.

 

Peter, regarding the blue light, you need to cover the led with metal tape, plus black tape, in order to cancel his effect in mood. I have one in my sleeping room, covered only with a black tape, trying to get a better sleep, but looking also for a dark room, and it works OK like this. I'll try to find the article regarding blue light studies and will place the link here.

 

Barry, wasn't Harry Pearson (from TAS) who stated low frequencies (subwoofers) are not omnidirectional, then you need left and right channel?

 

Bets regards,

 

Roch

 

[bdiament]

Hi Paul,

 

"...Are you saying the British target of that device met his own personal WaterLoo?..."

 

In a manner of speaking. I would imagine they wished they'd made it to the loo.

 

"...The EM devices I am thinking of were designed to "plug into" the household power panel, distributing the evil vibes over the built in wiring. It would supposedly lull a person to his final sleep, peacefully, with no fuss or muss..."

 

This was in fact perfected and put to widespread use. It is now called "television".

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com