Tuttle et al v Audiophile Music Direct

[sphinxsix]

The same should've been done with the MQA clan. 

[sphinxsix]

15 minutes ago, Rexp said:

This issue here is MoFo were dishonest

I agree. At least this should be the issue.

 

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

It might look that way to someone not well versed in American Law. But the plaintiffs must show they are reasonable consumers.

Sorry guys but for me someone who's buying an AAA LP and expects all 3 production stages to be analogue is a quite reasonable person.

He wouldn't be one if he was buying eg an AAD vinyl but I guess there may be something wrong with this logic at least according to American law.. 😎

[sphinxsix]

8 minutes ago, PeterG said:

But really...if they offered full refunds if original purchasers shipped vinyl back, would many take it?  Unlikely--these are magnificent albums in both music and sound quality. 

Don't forget that there are most probably many guys who believe that digital is the Antichrist of audio among them.. ;-)

 

[sphinxsix]

12 minutes ago, Rexp said:

So you switched to the Good side, well done!

Don't draw too far-reaching conclusions!

 

[sphinxsix]

16 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Time to air some common knowledge about reasonable consumers.

 

Record labels are not trusted.

 

The MQA debate exposed that providence or authenticity of master recordings is not documented well enough to rely on.

 

Examples

In the complaint The Doobie Brothers Captain and Me is cited and I doubt the original master was used. I might believe a late 70’s or early 80’s remaster. Warner routinely discarded original masters after reissues and remastering.

Workingman’s Dead and American Beauty were remastered by Mickey Hart and the original tapes were thrown away. Priceless American heritage lost forever.

The Nightfly by Donald Fagan was recorded in a digital format and the MOFI albums say Original Master Recording. Maybe it was but we can be sure? It was obvious MQA Ltd used a different master when they processed it.

 

Every reasonable consumer of limited release vinyl albums has reason to doubt any claim of an all-analog chain.  Your example will be shown to be unreasonable.

I hear you.

What I mean is that a customer who buys a canned ham and expects ham inside the can (not eg a tuna or bs) for me is a reasonable customer. Same with music material described as eg AAA or Original Master Recording.

From my point of view customer buying an LP isn't obliged to know about eg the whole MQA debate or companies problems or cheating practices as far as eg original master tapes are regarded. OTOH a company is obliged to deliver what they promise to deliver on the product label or anywhere else (eg ham, not tuna or original master AAA LP not a DAA one).

It's as simple as that.

:-)

 

[sphinxsix]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

They are offering refunds, so it's hard to see the point of the suit and what possible damages could be awarded. 

If they are worth more on the secondary market than the original price, it seems like a claim of damages/harm by the purchasers is not very strong. 

+1 Didn't read it earlier. Seems that MoFi itself didn't regard their customers objections as ..unreasonable :-)

 

 

[sphinxsix]

More details:

 

Washingtonpost-mofi-records-analog-digital-scandal

 

28 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Still waiting to hear a person say they've found better sounding vinyl...

I'm not into vinyl, as for digital, I prefer AP.

 

 

[sphinxsix]

13 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Framer is watching you!!! 🥸

No, Fremer is too busy with aligning his gramophone cartridges to get the best analogue sound out of many possible ones and also with convincing people that those MoFi LPs used analogue masters cause that's what he heard (from his pals, that is..).

 

[sphinxsix]

44 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’d spend $100 on the same MoFi package if it contained a USB stick of the DSD256 album, rather than the plastic disc.

 

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Count me out of the group of people who sue companies, not based on harm, but based on marketing claims that weren’t 100% literal truth. 

 

So if you spent $100 for a USB advertised as containing a DSD master material but in reality with an upsampled CD rip of an album instead (you call such situation 'marketing claim' but for me it's simply a company's lie and selling something different from an advertised product), you'd be ok with that (?)

 

[sphinxsix]

59 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Printing a digital file onto a piece of plastic and dragging a needle over it, absolutely can’t increase accuracy. 

Well said, I guess that dragging a needle a thousand times over a given LP also can't increase its accuracy, I've even heard it sometimes decreases it.. 😉

 

[sphinxsix]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This happens all the time, however it isn’t as cut and dry as your example. 

Sure but it doesn't mean that it should. It does happen because no-one sues companies for such practices. 

Like I said, if a product label says "ham", there should be ham inside, not tuna, if it says "real leather"  the shoes should be made of it not of plastic, otherwise there is an obvious reason for suing the producer. Why should music be a 'worse' product than ham or a pair of shoes.?

I'm personally very glad those guys have sued MoFi, maybe not only MoFi but also others will think twice before they do similar thing in the future.

 

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think the real issue is that it strikes at the heart of the analog community. I’m not saying this in any negative way. This community has believed for years that AAA is the best way. Now it must question what it once believed. 

Agree. This must have hurt 😎

 

[sphinxsix]

39 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Honest question, did MoFi explicitly say no digital was used in the process?

AFAIK they claimed the source of the mentioned LPs were original master tapes.

(I linked to The Washington Post article earlier).

 

[sphinxsix]

17 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The ultimate source has to be the master tape, as that’s what all subsequent tapes or records or digital comes from 🙂

Why do I know your replies before you reply.? 😂

 

But you are wrong..

the ultimate source is..

Big Bang.

 

😎

[sphinxsix]

Who's next.?

MQA.?

Only wouldn't that be like kicking a man when he's down..? 😎

[sphinxsix]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It takes a special kind of masochist to own the best sounding version of an album, but stop enjoying it, or sell it, because of how it was made.  

It's a problem of people who 'hear' what they think they should hear.

 

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

the mainstream press (WaPo) has written about

Think it's high time for an audiophile POTUS..

😎

 

[sphinxsix]

Maybe someone from this forum..?

Hmmm... who could it be..?

[sphinxsix]

12 minutes ago, botrytis said:

I only have one POME (Think it through 🤣) and she is in her home office working. I am making dinner.

POME..?

Think I need some help with that.

 

"POME	Palm Oil Mill Effluent
POME	Product Of My Environment
POME	Prisoner Of Mother England
POME	Point of Market Entry
POME	Principles of Motion Economy
POME	Philosophy of Mathematics Education (journal)
POME	Point of Main Effort
POME	Prisoner of Her Majesty of England
POME	Powerless Over My Emotions (this.? ;-) )
POME	Pulmonary Oil Microembolism"   Edit. It's not in the dictionary but just came to my mind: Power Of Monogamy Effect ..?   ;-)

[sphinxsix]

 

11 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

SIMPLER - President Of ME.

Oh, she's a president of Mexico. Cool! ;-)

 

[sphinxsix]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

But this is no more pathetic than those who state that they come to appreciate classical music because they listen to it in surround sound. 

Posting such statement here can mean only one thing - you're looking for trouble ;-)

 

[sphinxsix]

57 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

No-one would discuss the lack of Hi-Fi in the original recording

Always liked the sound of 'Brain Drain' produced by Bill Laswell. 

 

[sphinxsix]

39 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

There are some songs from the album I love to bits, but honestly, @sphinxsix you're a Laswell fan boy ... 😉

😁 In the 80's, early 90's yes I was.. what he did back then was IMO quite progressive and interesting. Don't play his albums often nowadays but I quite like some albums (often single ones) he had produced for rockers eg Public Image Ltd, Iggy Pop and the way they sound.

[sphinxsix]

17 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

It's easier than trying to describe a spiral staircase without using your hands. :~)

Actually both DAC and stairs do similar thing - turn steps (digital in case of DAC) into analogue, linear movement vector..

As for spiral stairs, one could probably say, they are more or less the equivalent of what MQA does to the original audio signal.. ;-)

 

[sphinxsix]

Have a break guys. This is what Meta's newest, most advanced AI chatbot, BlenderBot 3, has to say about the case: :-)

 

 

I think BlenderBot's opinion on the topic is very clear.

The situation got a bit more complicated a moment later cause after becoming more familiar with the case he seemed to claim that there was a murder involved. His last question seemed a bit suspicious, so I left the site and disconnected my VPN. I'm also considering moving to some country beyond the reach of the American jurisdiction.. 

 

[sphinxsix]

24 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format.

Fools had no idea that better than lossless MQA would be coming..