Smyth Realizer

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Anyone checked out the Realizer from Smyth yet? I heard one today at a dealer here in DC. All I can say is, "WOW".

 

At some point, I need to take my Stax 404/006t combo down there and see what a step up on 'phones will do.

 

Anyway, just curious if anyone else had heard it yet. If not, you should try and check it out at the next show or something. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief. LOL.

 

[jivers]

Can you fill us in on what this does and why you were so impressed? Where did you demo it?

 

Jeff

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I was at Command Performance (a local audio dealer) in DC picking up my new amp and he had one of these he was showing another customer. Anyway, when I showed up a customer was just leaving with a big smile on his face while the dealer, Jeff, was just chuckling. I asked what was so funny, so he said "sit down".

 

He didn't bother going thru all the calculations, but FWIW, the process doesn't seem too onerous. Anyway, he turns on the music on the main rig -- Joseph Audio Pulsars driven by Manley Labs Jumbo Shrimp and Snapper monos. Then, he cut the amps out, and played everything back through the 'phones. Sounded okay. Not great. Normal headphone sound, and I was used to this particular brand (Stax), so I knew what to expect. I was in the middle of the soundstage, everything was very clean, with great fast transients, &c, though I have to admit, I preferred my own 'phones to this set. And compared to the main rig, the sound was a bit flat, boring, & lifeless.

 

He then cut over to the main speakers while I left the phones on. Instantly, the life, fun, and energy came back to the music. Jeff was still tweaking, telling me to turn my head this way and that. Eventually, he said, "how do you like it"? I said, "I love those Joseph Audio speakers, so it sounds great." He's just grinning at me. I take the phones off ...

 

... and there was no sound. I put the headphones back on, and suddenly the main rig is playing again. Yes, I mean that -- it sounded like the main rig was playing. Not the headphones, the main rig. Let's just say I had a total WTF moment.

 

Let me say it another way: the Realizer made this average headphone/headamp sound almost exactly like a $15K system. Yes, there were some differences (bass depth, &c), but the soundstage, placement, air, detail ... wow. All there. Or enough that I really had to strain to separate the two systems.

 

Here's the kicker -- you can make the sound of your Realizer-rig not only sound like whatever your main rig might sound like -- but you can have it sound like whatever "main rig" you can find to map onto the Realizer. All you need to do is take your Realizer to wherever you want to do the system capture, do your measurements there, and then you have that system's sound wherever you want to hear it. Apparently, ILM is renting out time in their mixing/editing studio for Smyth customers to come in and do a surround measurement there for playback at home. I can only imagine what that would sound like.

 

I am not a fan of audiophile hyperbole, but I have to say that I was blown away by how different the sound was. It was eerie. Wonderful. Totally unexpected. And fantastic.

 

Let me put this out there too: I am not a dealer, have no affiliation with Smyth, and AFAIK, Command Performance isn't a Smyth dealer either, so I have no idea where you can get or even audition this gear. I got my earful completely by accident! Not terribly helpful, I know -- but don't let that dissuade anyone. It's definitely worthy of an audition. If I was a headphone guy, I'd be all over this.

 

There's a bunch of reviews out now, too.

 

[jhwalker]

Seems like there would be a market for pre-made "ideal" profiles, made in a "perfect" listening room with top-of-the line loudspeakers

 

[Rumbleripper]

Hi:

 

I spend a good part of yesterday reading about the realiser. It sounds amazing and something that may revolutionize headphone listening.

But I do still have some questions.

It appears to be set up for multi-Channel playback, for surround sound systems, ie 5.1,7.1 even 2.1 systems. Can computer systems output multi channel sound, and if so, what would I need? I am currently running a Mac Mini in 64 bit mode, with a JK modded HiFace out to a Matrix i-mini DAC (I have a Calyx 24/192 DAC on order) into a Woo Audio WA22 in Balanced mode to my headphones, currently HD 650's (on LCD-2's wait list).

 

It does not have balanced inputs, or outputs, so I would certainly have to change my configuration to single ended, which would not be an issue, if the sound quality is as good as they say.

 

But how could I hook up my system?

I am thinking Mac Mini to Calyx (via USB), RCA out (2 channel), into Realiser (2 Channels in), RCA output (again 2 channel) to WA22 RCA inputs.

Does this sound like it would work?

Also since most of my music is CD rips and HDTrack/Linn downloads (24/96 and greater), how will it sound, if the setup is done in a surround sound setup?

 

Thanks.

 

Rumble

 

 

[audiozorro]

So did you buy the Smyth Realizer?

 

I downloaded several binaural recordings several years ago and it was absolutely spooky. People, animals, musicians and other things came into my room (or so I thought). The experiences were quite disturbing but it reveal just how much more could be done in the area of headphone systems.

 

It's not far-fetched to believe that whatever your two ears can hear in the best concert hall, jazz club, outdoor performance or cost-no-object music playback system, can be replicated to your ears via a future headphone system.

 

Cost effective - you bet. Multichannel audio with nothing but perfect room effects without the cost of multiple speakers, amps, or building the perfect room. If Command Performance still has the Realizer, perhaps I need to hear your revelation.

 

[Rumbleripper]

Hi Socrates7:

 

No sorry for the ambiguous post above. I was doing some reading about the Realiser, and the "writeups" sounded good!

 

I have not had a chance to hear this. I live in a rural area so don't have access to High end audio demos.

 

I am interested in this unit if I can have it hook up properly to my Computer Audio setup, even if it is only capable of outputing 2 channel audio. I think the Realiser will still improve the soundstage of any headphones even in 2 channel mode, but am not 100% sure of this? I have an email into Smyth asking about this, as well as how I could integrate it into my current setup. Should have a response in the next day or two.

 

Does anyone know how to get multi channel surround sound tracks into and out of a computer interface (specifically a MacMini)? I would rather not hook up a CD/Blueray player and start using CD's or Blueray discs for playback?

 

Rumble

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

No, I didn't buy it. Right now, I'm busy stockpiling cash for a big ass pair of full range speakers and attempting to stay the course. No distractions!

 

I swung by on Friday to pick up a phono preamp (I am so weak) from Command Performance A/V on Friday, and I saw it still on the rack. Not sure if Jeff is actually selling them, but give him a ring, and he should be able to sort you out. If you do go, check out the little M1i monitors from Transmission Audio he just picked up. They're insane. In fact, do that, because I'd love to find out if the Smyth can capture the imagining that the Transmissions can produce. It'd be a good test.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

While the output of the Smyth is inherently 2-channel as its limited to the fact that playback will be by headphones, the whole point is to create a "live" playback experience, which (even in a 2-channel system) is inherently "surround". More specifically, I know that Smyth has an agreement with Industrial Light and Magic to let Smyth customers come to their surround-sound mixing studio to map their Realizer. When finished, your headphones will sound almost exactly like you're in that studio during playback of anything, whether the source material is 2-channel or not.

 

As for how to get mutlichannel out of your Mini, I think you're best shot would be to send HDMI out of the Mini (assuming yours has that output) into a surround sound processor.

 

 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I was amazed at how subtle and effective it was:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-45

 

Kal

 

[askat1988]

I have had one for a couple years now and it is nothing short of amazing, exactly as socrates describes. I have several pro studios mapped and the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood. I pretty much only use the AIX profile.

 

I plan to someday get a great 2-channel system but haven't done it yet.

 

Use mine mostly for movies, my headphone systems are very good without this.

 

[audiozorro]

I wonder if the Smyth Realizer is perfect for movies, with all their surround and special effects and less than perfect for listening to music. That is, fascinating at first, but less appealing after a few weeks of listening. I guess only longtime listeners should comment whether this is true or not, since I believe any short term listener would find the Realizer to sound amazing.

 

Still, there are several questions that deserve further discussion:

 

1. What is the effect of source material and does the Realizer work better with some source material than others? In particular I am thinking about stereo vs. multichannel vs. binaural.

 

2. askat1988 has several pro studios and the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood mapped. Are these included in the Smyth Realizer package, downloadable options or additional cost extras? I assume that Smyth Research does not expect buyers to take their equipment into Carnegie Hall in order to map that listening environment.

 

3. Extremely bold claims. According to Smyth Research:

 

The home user's first experience with the Realiser is typically the exact emulation of his own speaker system. But any audio system in any room can be measured, stored, and emulated at will. Audiophiles can emulate each others' rooms, speakers, and electronics. An audio dealer could make an unaffordable system in an acoustically outstanding room available for emulation, or might have arrangements with a studio or cinema for the same purpose. [End Quote]

 

Have any CA reader verified these claims? Is the claim that instead of me spending a considerable fortune on the best, electronics, speakers and listening room, I could use the Smyth Realiser to obtain an exact emulation of the very best music reproduction system?

 

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

As I posted earlier, there is a relatively full description of what it does and what it sounds like here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-45

 

Kal

 

 

[flatmap]

Really this seems like an incredible product. In addition to the informative article in Stereophile, mentioned above, there is also a lengthy post on Head-fi.

 

I do pause a bit, because I realize that my expectations are very high. Usually that's a reliable precondition for disappointment. But I can't think of any other product that is meant to sound right because it is customized to my ears -- so I'm inclined to think it is a good risk.

 

Very much thinking about it.

 

[Spongebob]

I listened to smyth too only because the owner keep saying "hey man you have to listen to this" all I saw was a pair of headphones so I didn't really want to but..

 

This amazing speakers were playing with in an perfect acoustic room using my CD and then I put the headphones on and I wait for 2 minutes for him to kick the headphone system. Then I notice he is standing still just looking at me. At this time I take the headphones to ask him whats going on I notice that the sound was coming the headphones and not the speakers..

 

Its amazing how this can mimic almost to perfection the speakers sound and acoustic from the room.

 

P.S- I was using the low model STAX 202. In my opinion the smyth should only be used with the stax speakerphones because there isn't any that can capture the air and delicacys of sound with such transparency like STAX do.

 

[arooj]

Wow thanks for such a cool post here. I have never tried anything like that before but now I will definitely do it. I love your blog because I can find amazing tutorial here every single time I visit it. Thanks for publishing this one one more time and keep such a great job in the future too!

 

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[JonP]

The system including the headphones to do it justice would appear to represent a very significant financial investment well beyond the means of the vast majority of headphone listeners (especially given that one reason people use headphone equipment is because the overall level of investment can be significantly lower than a speaker-based system).

 

I am not trying to mock this technology - it would seem to be a dream come true for people like me who have to subsist on Dolby Headphone and corresponding manual EQ adjustments (to account for HTRF, the character of the headphones themselves and the spectral colourations induced by Dolby Headphone) in order for things to sound as "right" as possible.

 

But I would never have the spare money for this in my wildest dreams. Which makes me wonder how many people actually will. If I had that much money to spend, I would be buying a nice pair of Tannoy Autograph Minis and sell all my headphone gear to pay for the amplification needed!

 

On the other hand, were a very stripped-down version of this technology available that eschewed the accomodation of head movement, the equalisation functionality and was available as a VST / DSP type of plug-in to existing media player / DAW software, I'd probably pay up to $500 for it if it proved to be superior to Dolby Headphone.

 

[KDinsmore]

Apple Computers bought one of these (I spoke w/U.S. distributor and he related this to me). Why? Let's all pray together here we can get this down the road at iPod price!

 

[input username here]

I spent a few hours at Smyth's SoCal headquarters with Lor setting up and listening to the Realizer (setup was only about 15 min. or so). Its recreation of a real speaker-based system in 3D space was nothing short of incredible. Honestly, everything Socrates7 said is true--and then some. Concerning what audiozorro said, as I am 90% interested in stereo/music, I spent almost the whole time at Smyth listening to their system in 2C and I think that the stress laid on the surround sound aspects of the Realizer way under-sells its magic as a straight stereo source. Indeed, my enthusiasm is based wholly on its performance in stereo (though I did listen to surround tracks a bit, which was also very impressive).

 

Bottom line: I have sold my speakers (PMC AML1s) and am the midst of selling my DAC (PS Audio PerfectWave w/ bridge) so I can by a pair of top-flight Staxs and the Realizer (I've already purchased a HeadAmp KGSS). I was THAT sold on it... and I would not have gone with a headphone system as a main rig if the Realizer did not exist. Period.

 

Part of the issue is that I rent, so there is no way I can build/set-up a room perfectly for audio (not to mention noise and neighbors), so cans are the perfect solution for me... but, considering the time I spend at my desk, I don't think that there is a better system for my purposes, even if the room wasn't an issue.

 

To Rumbleripper, the best way to get audio out of your Mac would be over HDMI (e.g. DisplayPort and/or Thunderbolt, for Mac-users) and straight into the Realizer (note: the realizer cannot decode surround formats -- a stupid oversight IMHO -- so you will have to decode these codecs on the computer and send the audio out via multi-channel PCM); the new Realizers do have an HDMI input. Note that this is their ONLY digital input, which is, again IMHO, their other ridiculous, unaccountable, puzzling and stupid oversight. For an inherently digital product (analog must go through ADC b/c the Smyth algorithm runs in the digital domain--so for all of you with high-end sources, your performance will still be limited by the Smyth DAC and ADC, if you go in via analog) the lack of multiple digital I/Os, and having HDMI (in) and Toslink (out), the two LEAST desirable I/O (esp. from a HTPC perspective), as the only I/Os available, is almost criminal on a product that is otherwise so impeccably well-thought-out in almost every other way.

 

Speaking of, as I said above, in order to fund this purchase, I am having to sell my high-end DAC... I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the Realizer's performance as a straight DAC, as it will, in effect, be replacing the one I am selling. Thoughts?

 

 

[jcpom]

where is Smyth's SoCal HQ located?

 

[esldude]

This is a revival of an old thread. But if anyone looks at it, I would be interested in people who have used the Smyth device. An old promise for headphones only partly realized in other products. Does give one hope with all the fancy DSP available now it might be within reach to make it work.

 

[Synfreak]

I'm in contact with the german distributor, and they will arrange a home demo ASAP, most likely next week.

 

I'm interested especially for my surround material, which gathers dust, because I don't have a surround system.

 

As the Realizer could be used for stereo up to 7.1, and the reports are quite tempting, I'm really curious to hear it.

 

I will report back as soon I've got it here ...

 

Cheers

Harald

 

[input username here]

... Camarillo, CA. That's just south of Oxnard. I was back home, visiting my parents, who live in Santa Barbara, when I made the trip down. It's about 45min south of Santa Barbara.

 

If you are around, check them out. I spoke with Lor, who was a really nice and knowledgeable guy. He set me up with the Realizer to get my measurements, etc. and it was a really great experience.

 

[jcpom]

I'll check it out on an upcoming southern CA trip.

 

[input username here]

Please post your impressions, I think they will be favorable.