Pi 2 Design Mercury Streamer

[sch8mid]

Spring and May come with a PLL circuit  . Aktivated by default.

Its in the menu - and there you can disable ist.

A phase-locked loop (PLL) is a feedback circuit designed to allow one circuit board to synchronize the phase of its on board clock with an external timing signal.

The PLL  helps  with noisy and not stable signals , but in case of the Holo Audio this PLL is extremely tight and rejects or needs a lot of time locking often with signals coming from Raspi devices.

 

In short : Holo audio (I2S) gets an audio signal from from my Pi 4 and  then needs 15 +20 seconds to lock and play.

If you pause ,,,,, same procedure and  15 sec.

In playlists the first 2 seconds of every title are cut off.

 

Not so fine . You see.

And to understand my last post better.

With PLL disabled it works much better.  But you get a whole bunch of other problems.

 

 

 

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

Spring and May come with a PLL circuit  . Aktivated by default.

Its in the menu - and there you can disable ist.

 

Sorry but my original Holo Spring L3 (not Spring 2 or Spring 3) has no such menu item.

 

 

16 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

A phase-locked loop (PLL) is a feedback circuit designed...

 

Yes, I know what a PLL is... 

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, sch8mid said:

With PLL disabled it works much better.  But you get a whole bunch of other problems.

Would you elaborate on the PLL thing.  Maybe start or add to another thread since it is not totally relevant here.  Suggested:  "HOLO DAC PLL Issues"???

[sch8mid]

Hi Bobfa

Yes ,  a good idea ...

Will do my very best , hard time for my school english from the seventies ....

 

best

 

as

[Egill23]

Goldensound has measured it now, it seems really good: https://goldensound.audio/2022/06/03/pi2design-mercury-streamer-server-measurements/

[PoMarantz]

Can anyone suggest an appropriate 12v linear power supply for The Mercury?

I am a novice…🤷🏻‍♂️
Also, a question about the Golden Sound review. I wondered why he did not test The Mercury using I2S output. Doesn't that output give the best results if you have a DAC the accepts I2S input. Perhaps he did not have a compatible DAC on hand…but I find that hard to believe with all the gear Golden Sound seems to have on hand. 😁

Like I said…I am a noice…so I may not understand something, here. 

[wanta911]

3 hours ago, PoMarantz said:

Also, a question about the Golden Sound review. I wondered why he did not test The Mercury using I2S output. Doesn't that output give the best results if you have a DAC the accepts I2S input. Perhaps he did not have a compatible DAC on hand…but I find that hard to believe with all the gear Golden Sound seems to have on hand. 😁

From the article:

 

In future, I will be adding some measurements of the I2S output of this and other DDCs directly. Unfortunately the APx555 cannot accept LVDS I2S signals natively, so cannot test them yet. But the jitter on other outputs is still a very good indicator as they’re still using the same clocks as the I2S output.

[PoMarantz]

41 minutes ago, wanta911 said:

From the article:

 

In future, I will be adding some measurements of the I2S output of this and other DDCs directly. Unfortunately the APx555 cannot accept LVDS I2S signals natively, so cannot test them yet. But the jitter on other outputs is still a very good indicator as they’re still using the same clocks as the I2S output.

Thanks so much for clarifying the testing. Much appreciated!

[sch8mid]

7 hours ago, PoMarantz said:

Can anyone suggest an appropriate 12v linear power supply for The Mercury?

I am a novice…🤷🏻‍♂️
Also, a question about the Golden Sound review. I wondered why he did not test The Mercury using I2S output. Doesn't that output give the best results if you have a DAC the accepts I2S input. Perhaps he did not have a compatible DAC on hand…but I find that hard to believe with all the gear Golden Sound seems to have on hand. 😁

Like I said…I am a noice…so I may not understand something, here. 

Right . And sorry . As "Golden sound " for sure has an I2S DAC at hand (his own Holo May  KTE ) and this unit and other streamers show so many problems with I2S ( locking - DSD > 384 - PLL issues)  this is not only a big grain of salt  , this left me wondering....  and waiting for another test.

[PoMarantz]

6 hours ago, sch8mid said:

Right . And sorry . As "Golden sound " for sure has an I2S DAC at hand (his own Holo May  KTE ) and this unit and other streamers show so many problems with I2S ( locking - DSD > 384 - PLL issues)  this is not only a big grain of salt  , this left me wondering....  and waiting for another test.

Being new…I did not realize that the APx555 was a measurement device..(I thought it was an exotic DAC of some sort 🙂), and I will bet an expensive one..I am a little slow on the uptake…Based on my research and what I am reading above I have made a good choice in ordering a Mercury for my Pontus II DAC, expressly to use the I2S connection for purest streaming. Since the Mercury configures it’s output over HDMI in The PS Audio Standard and my DAC comes from the factory with The HDMI input configured the same, I thought that I did due diligence. From what I am reading here  I think my combo will work just fine together, but I now see, with all the Holo issues with the Mercury that something I thought was a simple concept is much more complicated than I imagined.

Love this forum…I am learning a LOT!

[sch8mid]

Yes. Me too. As I am testing a new similar , but Not so sophisticted Pi4 based  streamer and got various problems with the I2S in of the Holo Audio Dac  I am waiting for additional informations by one of the forumcracks. Mercury is for sure on my wishlist , if I2S works 

[blippio]

Hey PoMarantz- I appreciate you learning here (as I am) but please don't confuse Sch8mid's issue of...

Quote

In short : Holo audio (I2S) gets an audio signal from from my Pi 4 and  then needs 15 +20 seconds to lock and play.

...with an actual, documented example of the Mercury Streamer having an issue with his (or any) Holo DAC.

 

AFAIK, he's making the assumption that since he's had issues with his Raspberry Pi 4 device (unsure of what "device" this specifically is, btw) and his Holo Spring DAC in "locking on" to the I2S signal that he will also have issues with the Mercury Streamer and his Holo DAC. It seems Sch8mid is trying to find out if there is an issue before purchasing a Mercury Streamer, and while prudent, seems to be raising a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about how well the Mercury Streamer will perform with I2S. I don't know of any examples of this being an issue.

 

While it's true that the brains of the Mercury Streamer are based on the C4 (Compute Module development platform of Raspberry Pi 4), I wouldn't necessarily assume there are also I2S issues with the Mercury Streamer simply because Sch8nmid is having issues with his setup. In fact, it appears there are some in this thread who are not having issues with their Mercury Streamer and their Holo DACs.

 

I'd encourage Sch8mt to start a new thread as Bobfa mentioned, "HOLO DAC PLL Issues", to not muddy the waters here.

 

BTW, PoMarantz, I too have a Pontus II DAC and intend to use it with the Mercury Streamer I have on order... we can compare notes if need be (and don't forget to burn in the Pontus for 200-300 plus for best performance... Message me if need to know more about this)

[dericchan1]

On 6/4/2022 at 2:43 PM, blippio said:

Hey PoMarantz- I appreciate you learning here (as I am) but please don't confuse Sch8mid's issue of...

...with an actual, documented example of the Mercury Streamer having an issue with his (or any) Holo DAC.

 

AFAIK, he's making the assumption that since he's had issues with his Raspberry Pi 4 device (unsure of what "device" this specifically is, btw) and his Holo Spring DAC in "locking on" to the I2S signal that he will also have issues with the Mercury Streamer and his Holo DAC. It seems Sch8mid is trying to find out if there is an issue before purchasing a Mercury Streamer, and while prudent, seems to be raising a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about how well the Mercury Streamer will perform with I2S. I don't know of any examples of this being an issue.

 

While it's true that the brains of the Mercury Streamer are based on the C4 (Compute Module development platform of Raspberry Pi 4), I wouldn't necessarily assume there are also I2S issues with the Mercury Streamer simply because Sch8nmid is having issues with his setup. In fact, it appears there are some in this thread who are not having issues with their Mercury Streamer and their Holo DACs.

 

I'd encourage Sch8mt to start a new thread as Bobfa mentioned, "HOLO DAC PLL Issues", to not muddy the waters here.

 

BTW, PoMarantz, I too have a Pontus II DAC and intend to use it with the Mercury Streamer I have on order... we can compare notes if need be (and don't forget to burn in the Pontus for 200-300 plus for best performance... Message me if need to know more about this)

I just like to point out that Michael Kelly has sent a sample of pi2aes and mercury to Singapore a couple weeks ago for Denafrips to test specifically the i2s configuration with their dacs and they work!!

 

That speaks a lot about a person/business that cares about his product and his customers!!!

[blippio]

This is great to hear derrichan1! Eagerly awaiting my Mercury, will post impressions once set up

[PoMarantz]

On 6/4/2022 at 2:43 PM, blippio said:

Hey PoMarantz- I appreciate you learning here (as I am) but please don't confuse Sch8mid's issue of...

...with an actual, documented example of the Mercury Streamer having an issue with his (or any) Holo DAC.

 

AFAIK, he's making the assumption that since he's had issues with his Raspberry Pi 4 device (unsure of what "device" this specifically is, btw) and his Holo Spring DAC in "locking on" to the I2S signal that he will also have issues with the Mercury Streamer and his Holo DAC. It seems Sch8mid is trying to find out if there is an issue before purchasing a Mercury Streamer, and while prudent, seems to be raising a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about how well the Mercury Streamer will perform with I2S. I don't know of any examples of this being an issue.

 

While it's true that the brains of the Mercury Streamer are based on the C4 (Compute Module development platform of Raspberry Pi 4), I wouldn't necessarily assume there are also I2S issues with the Mercury Streamer simply because Sch8nmid is having issues with his setup. In fact, it appears there are some in this thread who are not having issues with their Mercury Streamer and their Holo DACs.

 

I'd encourage Sch8mt to start a new thread as Bobfa mentioned, "HOLO DAC PLL Issues", to not muddy the waters here.

 

BTW, PoMarantz, I too have a Pontus II DAC and intend to use it with the Mercury Streamer I have on order... we can compare notes if need be (and don't forget to burn in the Pontus for 200-300 plus for best performance... Message me if need to know more about this)

WOW! THANKS blippio, for the nice detailed note. I was pretty sure that I would have no issues with the I2S, but being new to this I am unsure of myself…I also had some major disappointments with a Denafrips preamp, and some Kinki Studio Mono Blocs..a rabbit hole that I have now backed out of and restructured much to my liking (After taking a finically bath…but I learned a LOT about what "my' sound preference is and about how important each part of the chain is)… so with someone casting doubt on I2S I got a little paranoid! LOL! You have put me at ease. 👍🏼

I have maybe 80-100 hours on The Pontus II and really like how the unit sounds…Quirky to operate,  but that is secondary. I ordered a linear power supply (off eBay 🥹) for my Mercury and got a very decent, short HDMI cable to connect it to the Pontus….I am currently streaming Amazon Music but looks like I have to choose between Tidal or Qobuz when I implement The Mercury into my system as my understanding is that Amazon is not compatible….So I have a lot of changes coming…should be fun and interesting.

[PoMarantz]

7 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

I just like to point out that Michael Kelly has sent a sample of pi2aes and mercury to Singapore a couple weeks ago for Denafrips to test specifically the i2s configuration with their dacs and they work!!

 

That speaks a lot about a person/business that cares about his product and his customers!!!

That is GREAT news..Everyone at Vinshine has been very helpful in my dealings with them. They are dedicated people. Thanks so much for this info! 👍🏼

[dericchan1]

3 minutes ago, PoMarantz said:

That is GREAT news..Everyone at Vinshine has been very helpful in my dealings with them. They are dedicated people. Thanks so much for this info! 👍🏼

To be honest, my post is more towards giving credits to Michael being a small business and taking the extra steps to ensure compatibility of his product with other dacs manufacturers and customers satisfaction. He has designed a great product and does not have to do that. 

[PoMarantz]

1 minute ago, dericchan1 said:

To be honest, my post is more towards giving credits to Michael being a small business and taking the extra steps to ensure compatibility of his product with other dacs manufacturers and customers satisfaction. He has designed a great product and does not have to do that. 

I didn't say he hasn't.🤷🏻‍♂️

[sch8mid]

On 6/4/2022 at 8:43 PM, blippio said:

 

AFAIK, he's making the assumption that since he's had issues with his Raspberry Pi 4 device (unsure of what "device" this specifically is, btw) and his Holo Spring DAC in "locking on" to the I2S signal that he will also have issues with the Mercury Streamer and his Holo DAC. It seems Sch8mid is trying to find out if there is an issue before purchasing a Mercury Streamer, and while prudent, seems to be raising a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about how well the Mercury Streamer will perform with I2S. I don't know of any examples of this being an issue.

 

 

F.y. i. The unit in question was the new and  highly acclaimed

Silent Angels Networkstreamer  : Munich M1 T (R PI 4 based)

But , dear friends of mine -  after I realized that after my years with practically no contact to this new dark Hi-Fi World of hypocrites , false influencers , reviewers , YouTubers , fora -and pro marketing specialists ... ..

I had a hard time to believe anyone in this business -

With the help of a few people here  ,  @audioscience and @ archimago and escaping " devils own "  Head-Fi forum

 

I ordered a Mercury myself.  😝😝😝

 

Best and sorry

I am old and was born in Switzerland.

as

[dericchan1]

39 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

F.y. i. The unit in question was the new and  highly acclaimed

Silent Angels Networkstreamer  : Munich M1 T (R PI 4 based)

But , dear friends of mine -  after I realized that after my years with practically no contact to this new dark Hi-Fi World of hypocrites , false influencers , reviewers , YouTubers , fora -and pro marketing specialists ... ..

I had a hard time to believe anyone in this business -

With the help of a few people here  ,  @audioscience and @ archimago and escaping " devils own "  Head-Fi forum

 

I ordered a Mercury myself.  😝😝😝

 

Best and sorry

I am old and was born in Switzerland.

as

The only thing I know about Silent Angel is that it is a China company. I have never read any open measurements or objective reviews on the streamer in question.

 

congratulations on your choice to order a Mercury. You won’t be disappointed 

[blippio]

Ha, no worries Sch8mid, I am old and born in the US, lol. I hope the Mercury works out for you (eagerly awaiting mine)—keep us posted.

[oneguy]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:00 AM, dericchan1 said:

To be honest, my post is more towards giving credits to Michael being a small business and taking the extra steps to ensure compatibility of his product with other dacs manufacturers and customers satisfaction. He has designed a great product and does not have to do that. 

Michael does make a good product but to be honest I view that as more of smart business decision than altruism. The more pairings your can prove compatibility with means the more potential for sales. Just my opinion 

[dericchan1]

31 minutes ago, oneguy said:

Michael does make a good product but to be honest I view that as more of smart business decision than altruism. The more pairings your can prove compatibility with means the more potential for sales. Just my opinion 

True in a sense but you don’t see Silent Angel does it with other dac manufacturers.

[PoMarantz]

1 hour ago, oneguy said:

Michael does make a good product but to be honest I view that as more of smart business decision than altruism. The more pairings your can prove compatibility with means the more potential for sales. Just my opinion 

I agree…as Denefrips DACs are wildly popular and all from The Pontus II on up take an I2S connection configured from the factory in the PS Audio Standard…the same as The Mercury Streamer's output…it’s a great business decision on Michael's part to send the Mercury to Singapore, get some press and increase public awareness Pi2 Design. ..and Alvin and the boys will do The Mercury well! 👍🏼

[bobfa]

Can we bring this back on track?  Observations, questions, etc. One the device itself.