Building NAA for HQplayer

[kwatch]

1 hour ago, ericuco said:

Most people are using HQP to maximize the output (DSD256, DSD512, PCM1024) which means pushing the limits of the HQP server. As such, a powerful computer is typically used which can be electronically noisy (high power chips, cooling fans, etc). Connecting it directly to a DAC means that some of the noise is potentially transferred to DAC.

 

On the other hand, a NAA is low power, passively cooled computer thus much lower electrical noise potentially making it the DAC. Connecting NAA to HQP server via Ethernet helps keep the noise from server at a minimal.

 

That said, you need to try both to see which sounds better to you. No guarantees.

 

Make perfect sense. Thanks.

[ericuco]

40 minutes ago, kwatch said:

 

Make perfect sense. Thanks.

It is the same line of thinking where incorporating fiber optic network in connecting the HQP server to the NAA. In other words, better electrically isolating the NAA.
 

That is why the fitlet2 with a fiber optic port is so appealing. A fitlet2 with Linux Mint pre-installed, a few commands to install HQP NAA software and you are up and running with a headless device that is easily accessed from any other computer (Windows) you have.

[Miska]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:20 AM, ericuco said:

That is why the fitlet2 with a fiber optic port is so appealing. A fitlet2 with Linux Mint pre-installed, a few commands to install HQP NAA software and you are up and running with a headless device that is easily accessed from any other computer (Windows) you have.

 

But if you have GUI running there, it kind of works against the idea of NAA... Like why you have NAA in first place, if it then has all graphics stuff...

 

[kwatch]

Can someone tell me what are the maximum PCM and DSD rates that I can output with the NAA on Atom Z8350 using the USB out?  My DAC(Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE) can do 1.536M PCM and DSD 64-512X(DOP).

[Miska]

5 hours ago, kwatch said:

Can someone tell me what are the maximum PCM and DSD rates that I can output with the NAA on Atom Z8350 using the USB out?  My DAC(Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE) can do 1.536M PCM and DSD 64-512X(DOP).

 

1.5M PCM and DSD1024. No reason to use DoP.

 

[kwatch]

What is the difference between these two files?

[dericchan1]

I have a silly question. Pretty much any SBCs, NUCs can be used as a NAA. (i read some folks are even using a NUC i7 as a NAA and claiming sound quality is better!!!)

I understand that with the fitlet2 you are getting the potential benefit of a SFP+ connection from switch to NAA. Are there any reason(s) why one NAA i.e. say a intel NUC, a Raspberry Pi4,  UP, or say a fitlet2 without the SFP+ module would necessarily sound different or one better than the other per say?

 

Deric

[sledwards]

23 minutes ago, kwatch said:

What is the difference between these two files?

From Miska over on Networking discussion:

 

There are now updated NAA OS images available. There are now two different images for x64. The "ramfs" image like the earlier x64 image. And the regular x64 image is now just like images for other architectures. So you can login and modify settings/rename NAA and have the changes stored as usual.

 

This should reduce need for using HQPlayer OS for NAA purposes.

 

 

[ericuco]

59 minutes ago, sledwards said:

From Miska over on Networking discussion:

 

There are now updated NAA OS images available. There are now two different images for x64. The "ramfs" image like the earlier x64 image. And the regular x64 image is now just like images for other architectures. So you can login and modify settings/rename NAA and have the changes stored as usual.

 

This should reduce need for using HQPlayer OS for NAA purposes.

 

 

Does this new version allow for multiple Ethernet ports? 

[sledwards]

On 1/16/2022 at 8:41 PM, Miska said:

 

Well, both do, just like before, with any number of ports. They just expect that you have DHCP server behind every port that you have enabled.

 

If you want, you can now adjust network configuration of the regular x64 image easily, just like with the other architectures. With ramfs it is certainly more difficult.

 

HQPlayer OS and NAA OS use systemd-networkd to manage network configurations:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.network.html

 

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

I have a silly question. Pretty much any SBCs, NUCs can be used as a NAA. (i read some folks are even using a NUC i7 as a NAA and claiming sound quality is better!!!)

I understand that with the fitlet2 you are getting the potential benefit of a SFP+ connection from switch to NAA. Are there any reason(s) why one NAA i.e. say a intel NUC, a Raspberry Pi4,  UP, or say a fitlet2 without the SFP+ module would necessarily sound different or one better than the other per say?

 

Apart from allowing processing and output to happen at physically different places, point of NAA is mostly to deal with ground currents and minimal interference USB output. Low power devices tend to be acoustically and electrically quieter.

 

How much it makes difference in the system's analog output signal depends a lot on the overall system setup. Such as how much USB isolation the DAC has, overall grounding layout, etc.

 

[dericchan1]

10 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Apart from allowing processing and output to happen at physically different places, point of NAA is mostly to deal with ground currents and minimal interference USB output. Low power devices tend to be acoustically and electrically quieter.

 

How much it makes difference in the system's analog output signal depends a lot on the overall system setup. Such as how much USB isolation the DAC has, overall grounding layout, etc.

 

Thanks Miska for confirming my understanding!!  I am currently using a rpi4 powered by a lps as a NAA, USB out to an intona usb galvanic isolator then out to my ifi neo dsd dac. USB cables are well shielded and kept the shortest distance only 15 cm in length to the dac. I have now bought the Cisco sg300 and will enable the settings as you recommended

 

cheers

 

Deric

[giordy60]

Jussi,
I use this fitletb with image 4.1.1 (but I don't remember other specifics)
the question is this: with 4.1.3 which one is preferable to use?
thank you !

[Miska]

20 hours ago, giordy60 said:

I use this fitletb with image 4.1.1 (but I don't remember other specifics)
the question is this: with 4.1.3 which one is preferable to use?

 

If you've used NAA OS images before, "ramfs" one is like the earlier ones. While the regular one is just like the RasPi4 image for example.

 

If you don't use input features, you don't need to update.

[pis99]

Hi Jussi,

 

The UP squared are all back ordered. Am I good to go with the 2GB memory version instead of the 4GB?  
 

 UP-Board 2GB RAM+32GB eMMC with Case/Power Adapter

[Miska]

2 hours ago, pis99 said:

The UP squared are all back ordered. Am I good to go with the 2GB memory version instead of the 4GB?  
 

 UP-Board 2GB RAM+32GB eMMC with Case/Power Adapter

 

For the regular (non-ramfs one), likely yes. But for the ramfs one it is probably too tight.

 

There is a lot of data on the filesystem that takes space but is not going to be used in any single system. So RAM usage between the two images is pretty different.

 

[dekipeki]

Hello, I would like to connect my powerful computer running windows 10 , roon bridge and hqplayer in room A to my standard windows 10 computer in room B connected to my dac and amp and also running Roon with my library on an attached ssd drive

 

The 2 computers are physicaly connected with etjernet cable to the same internal network powered by orbi netgear repeaters (wifi 6)

 

I just downloaded naa for windows and run it with admin on computer in room A

I launched naa on computer B with dac on and connected with usb cable

 

Well in room B I launched hqplayer but it cant find naa endoint in settings ...

 

On computer in room A I can see the attached screen in cmd line

 

It is not working...

 

How is it possible to makenit work in my config ?

 

I deactivated the windows firewall and didnt help. Even the antivirus didnt help either. Thank you so much if you can help ! I cannoct connect computer A to B with etjernet cable, they are too far apart... :-(

 

Deki

[Miska]

17 hours ago, dekipeki said:

Hello, I would like to connect my powerful computer running windows 10 , roon bridge and hqplayer in room A to my standard windows 10 computer in room B connected to my dac and amp and also running Roon with my library on an attached ssd drive

 

The 2 computers are physicaly connected with etjernet cable to the same internal network powered by orbi netgear repeaters (wifi 6)

 

I just downloaded naa for windows and run it with admin on computer in room A

I launched naa on computer B with dac on and connected with usb cable

 

Well in room B I launched hqplayer but it cant find naa endoint in settings ...

 

On computer in room A I can see the attached screen in cmd line

 

It is not working...

 

How is it possible to makenit work in my config ?

 

I deactivated the windows firewall and didnt help. Even the antivirus didnt help either. Thank you so much if you can help ! I cannoct connect computer A to B with etjernet cable, they are too far apart... :-(

 

Deki

 

If your DAC is in B, then you run networkaudiod at B. And HQPlayer at A.

 

Does your DAC have ASIO driver and is it installed?

 

Note that Roon Bridge shouldn't be running simultaneously.

 

[dekipeki]

Many Thanks !!!

 

Yes Networkaudiod running on the dac side of the moon/system, with it's ASIO driver installed (sorry for the confusing initial description)

 

In my case. the problem should be the Bridge function. (I will test it this evening)

 

You are correct I wont need the Bridge function anymore as I would be able to play directly from roon to the hqplayer. Just in case is there a way to deactivate Roon Bridge (other than becoming a process killer) or should I uninstall it from my computer ?

 

Problem 2

In room A, I have another Dac (marantz hd dac 1) with it's asio driver installed and connected with USB to the powerful computer running hqplayer and have a strange behavior: when I power my DAC Hqplayer won't connect to the asio driver of the dac.

 

I always need to connect the Wasapi Driver first (limited to 192K)  through hqplayer setup to be able to then reset it to the Asio driver (going up to DSD 128). As if the activation of the Wasapi driver "wakes up" the Asio driver saying "hey Asio you have to wake up ! ":-)

 

Did you ever hear about/encopunter such an issue ? It is not specific to hqplayer I think, as Roon by itself (Roon bridge in my case) says that it can't get it's hand on the asio driver ...

 

I didn't have this problem with my previous computer, it is when I changed my computer for a powerfull NUC that this issue appeared first ...

 

If I run the Qobuz app and select Wasapi driver for output it also seems to wake up the asio driver and plays (of course resolution is limited to 192K)

 

Maybe you have an insight on this behaviour ?

 

Have a nice day !

 

Deki

[Miska]

3 hours ago, dekipeki said:

Problem 2

In room A, I have another Dac (marantz hd dac 1) with it's asio driver installed and connected with USB to the powerful computer running hqplayer and have a strange behavior: when I power my DAC Hqplayer won't connect to the asio driver of the dac.

 

I always need to connect the Wasapi Driver first (limited to 192K)  through hqplayer setup to be able to then reset it to the Asio driver (going up to DSD 128). As if the activation of the Wasapi driver "wakes up" the Asio driver saying "hey Asio you have to wake up ! ":-)

 

Did you ever hear about/encopunter such an issue ? It is not specific to hqplayer I think, as Roon by itself (Roon bridge in my case) says that it can't get it's hand on the asio driver ...

 

I have Marantz HD DAC 1 as well, but I don't even remember anymore if I have ever tried it's ASIO driver (or the device with Windows in general). Have they made any updates to the driver recently? Maybe some Windows update has messed it up. You can also try to reinstall the driver. Since Windows now comes with UAC2 driver (since Windows 10 update), it sometimes "steals" the DAC first before the DAC's own driver is loaded. When that happens, ASIO driver naturally doesn't work.

 

It works faultless nowadays with Linux though. Initially it took some time to gain native DSD support on Linux.

 

[dekipeki]

No recent updates to the driver from marantz, I already reinstalled it to no avail, in anycase I have a workaround by engaging the wasapi driver first.

 

I guess that maybe I have too many drivers: questyle cma 12, ifiAudio GoldBar, RMe fireface UC, marantz, Sony pha3 ... I will try to remove the unuaed ones.

 

On the NAA front: 

 

1) I stopped Roon bridge on computer A running hqplayer.

 

2) Then I launched again networkaudiod on Computer B connected to my Questyle Dac (connection OK)

 

3) Then I lauched hqplayer on computer A and tried to set up connexion to naa on computer B, but when I choose NAA I can see no device avalaible ...

 

I am stuck and cant use the naa function. :-(

 

5) I also stopped the windows antivirus on both computers but with no positive result... 

 

what could I try more ?

 

Maybee boot the NAA image from a usb key on computer B and move Roon core to computer A. But I guess it is not optimal to run Roon and hqplayer on the same computer even if it is powerful ?

 

Any idea or help I would appreciate very much.

 

Thanx

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, dekipeki said:

3) Then I lauched hqplayer on computer A and tried to set up connexion to naa on computer B, but when I choose NAA I can see no device avalaible ...

 

The DAC in question has ASIO driver? If not, you need to change networkaudiod's backend to WASAPI by modifying the startup .bat

 

Either computer has more than one network interface enabled? Please see Control Panel -> Network -> Manage Network Interfaces

 

Also check that network type for both machines is "internal network" instead of "public network". Otherwise firewall would be blocking traffic.

 

1 hour ago, dekipeki said:

Maybee boot the NAA image from a usb key on computer B and move Roon core to computer A. But I guess it is not optimal to run Roon and hqplayer on the same computer even if it is powerful ?

 

Typically NAA is a low power device without anything else running than NAA. I would run Roon on the same machine as HQPlayer rather than on the same machine with NAA.

 

You could just try NAA OS and/or HQPlayer OS on your NAA machine first, without moving any Roon things just to see if it works that way or not.

 

[dekipeki]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I have Marantz HD DAC 1 as well, but I don't even remember anymore if I have ever tried it's ASIO driver (or the device with Windows in general). Have they made any updates to the driver recently? Maybe some Windows update has messed it up. You can also try to reinstall the driver. Since Windows now comes with UAC2 driver (since Windows 10 update), it sometimes "steals" the DAC first before the DAC's own driver is loaded. When that happens, ASIO driver naturally doesn't work.

 

It works faultless nowadays with Linux though. Initially it took some time to gain native DSD support on Linux.

 

I found a workaround for this problem, in fact it was Roon Bridge "stealing" the Asio Output. Just by deactivating Bridge it solves the problem and I can directly access to the asio driver from hqplayer after powering the dac. But well if I want to use the Bridge functionality to play directly on the DAC I still have to perform the older workaround by connecting the Wasapi Driver and then switching back to Asio ...

[Miska]

3 hours ago, dekipeki said:

I found a workaround for this problem, in fact it was Roon Bridge "stealing" the Asio Output. Just by deactivating Bridge it solves the problem and I can directly access to the asio driver from hqplayer after powering the dac. But well if I want to use the Bridge functionality to play directly on the DAC I still have to perform the older workaround by connecting the Wasapi Driver and then switching back to Asio ...

 

You need to disable the DAC from Roon if you use HQPlayer with Roon. Otherwise the two will conflict, this is documented on the official Roon HQPlayer instructions page.

 

[dekipeki]

Ok thank you I should have known, thank you Miska ! The problem with the Asio driver is now solved ! :-)