Building NAA for HQplayer

[cpcat]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:29 PM, cpcat said:

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

 

You should normally leave it default. If the network is  challenging, using lower values like 10 ms may help.

Could this help me possibly?  Couldn’t hurt to try I guess.

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

 

 

 

[dekipeki]

By the way, It is such a pitty that the hqplayer app doesn't allow Qobuz access, in that case I wouldn't need Roon. In fact I mostly use Roon because it is simple to integrate Parmetric Eq's for my different headphones.

What do you mean? HQPlayer does support Qobuz natively.

 

Hello Miska !

 

I was talking of the hqplayer control v4 android app. Not the standard hqplayer client app that is installed with hqplayer... of course being in another room than hqplayer wont allow me selecting and playing the desired songs on my NAA usb flash endpoint using the standard hqplayer client.

 

Mainly I use Roon for this purpose but you told me it is better not, because it could be part of the dropouts I am experiencing.

 

So I tried to use the android control app v4, it worked but that app wont connect to qobuz so it cant replace Roon in that aspect.

 

I will try diminishing the the time to 10ms. I wrongly thought you needed to expand it when experiencing dropouts ... surely that will help !

 

Thank you

 

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, dekipeki said:

 

I was talking of the hqplayer control v4 android app.

 

That is a third party control app, I cannot comment much about what it does or doesn't support. That is up to Ales to decide.

 

3 hours ago, dekipeki said:

Not the standard hqplayer client app that is installed with hqplayer... of course being in another room than hqplayer wont allow me selecting and playing the desired songs on my NAA usb flash endpoint using the standard hqplayer client.

 

Of course it allows you to do precisely that.

 

[bogi]

20 hours ago, dekipeki said:

By the way, It is such a pitty that the hqplayer app doesn't allow Qobuz access, in that case I wouldn't need Roon. In fact I mostly use Roon because it is simple to integrate Parmetric Eq's for my different headphones.

 

HQPlayer supports Qobuz natively. Just start HQPlayer Client app. See https://www.signalyst.com/quickstart.html

 

HQPlayer allows to integrate parametric eq - see Matrix Pipeline in HQPlayer Manual (that's installed PDF, not online). You can create here named presets according to your headphones. Then you can choose a preset in HQPlayer Client.

 

Both the quick Getting Started guide and HQPlayer manual are missing easy examples how to use parametric eq. This may be one of more reasons why people are using Roon with HQPlayer.

 

Maybe the HQPlayer manual contained an example of 'Process' eq string at least on picture in the past but not in newer versions.
Look for example at:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30983-hqplayer-linux-desktop-and-hqplayer-embedded/?do=findComment&comment=1104542
 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30983-hqplayer-linux-desktop-and-hqplayer-embedded/?do=findComment&comment=1105973

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hqplayer-rew-tutorial-parametric-eq/234516

[dekipeki]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That is a third party control app, I cannot comment much about what it does or doesn't support. That is up to Ales to decide.

 

 

Of course it allows you to do precisely that.

 

But I would need another computer with hqplayer client installed that would be in the listening room ? 

 

Room 2: big boss PC with hqplayer running and connected to naa in Room 3

 

Room 3: little pc running naa from usb flash drive connected to usb dac and my headphoned (so as it is used to run Naa from flashdrive I cannot run hqplayer client on it)

 

How do I do to control the music from Room 3, l need another PC running hqplayer client ?

[bogi]

2 hours ago, dekipeki said:

l need another PC running hqplayer client ?

For HQPlayer Client you need a computer or tablet with Windows, macOS or Linux OS.

 

HQPDcontrol can run on Android or iOS.

 

HQPWV you can run on any device incl. phones which contains web browser. Server part could then run on your HQPlayer computer. I see it was not updated 2 years.

 

Only HQPlayer Client of the above three supports Qobuz natively.

 

There is also a possibility to use a Remote Desktop or VNC type of app on your phone to remote control HQPlayer Client running on HQPlayer computer.

 

If you run HQPlayer Embedded then you can use any UPnP Control Point, including mobile apps like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP. These mobile apps also support streaming from Qobuz, Deezer and maybe more.

[dekipeki]

10 minutes ago, bogi said:

For HQPlayer Client you need a computer or tablet with Windows, macOS or Linux OS.

 

HQPDcontrol can run on Android or iOS.

 

HQPWV you can run on any device incl. phones which contains web browser. Server part could then run on your HQPlayer computer. I see it was not updated 2 years.

 

Only HQPlayer Client of the above three supports Qobuz natively.

 

There is also a possibility to use a Remote Desktop or VNC type of app on your phone to remote control HQPlayer Client running on HQPlayer computer.

 

If you run HQPlayer Embedded then you can use any UPnP Control Point, including mobile apps like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP. These mobile apps also support streaming from Qobuz, Deezer and maybe more.

Thank you so much @bogi for giving this very extensive feedback, I appreciate it very much. Thanks to your feedback I can see all the alternatived and for the moment I ended by using a remote dektop dektop app as you suggested. :-)

 

Dekipeki

[dekipeki]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What do you mean? HQPlayer does support Qobuz natively.

 

 

Yes, having proper 802.3x flow control is pretty much mandatory. Otherwise there is too much packet loss and resends.

 

 

You should normally leave it default. If the network is  challenging, using lower values like 10 ms may help.

 

 

Yes, that is quite usual, as the VPN has default route or higher priority (lower metric) and discovery multicasts end up there instead of local network.

 

Thank you @Miska The reduction to 10ms proved to be the right move, now I am listening with no dropouts at all enjoying hqplayer.

 

Thank you very much fomucaking time to reply to my questions and to give me your insight. :-)

 

 

[cpcat]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:01 PM, Miska said:

 

Sounds like USB packet loss or similar issue between the source and the DAC.

 

USB packet contains 125 microseconds of data, having such packet lost results in sounds like dust particles on vinyl.

 

If clocking goes out of sync, then you have typically static overlay with the music. But it can also happen due to data loss.

 

So, I tried another power line adapter in a different ac socket.  Same unfortunately-pops/tics like an album.

 

Right now I am listening to the USB 2.0 port on the Fitlet 2- for the last 30 min no tics/pops - even when paused and with the VC at max (which is my test for noise as before).  
 

So, it appears that for me and the Fitlet 2 with NAA the USB 2.0 port is the answer to the packet loss noise (background tics/pops/crackling).

 

I have searched the USB specs and can’t find much on DSD.  I assume since it is working it is ok- but why would USB 3.0 have packet loss and 2.0 would not?

[Miska]

16 hours ago, cpcat said:

I have searched the USB specs and can’t find much on DSD.  I assume since it is working it is ok- but why would USB 3.0 have packet loss and 2.0 would not?

 

Have you tried with different cables? What was the output device (sorry, I don't remember)? Cable issue is possible.

 

Another possible reason is some incompatibility between the USB 3 controller in fitlet2 SoC and the DAC's USB interface.

 

[cpcat]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Have you tried with different cables? What was the output device (sorry, I don't remember)? Cable issue is possible.

 

Another possible reason is some incompatibility between the USB 3 controller in fitlet2 SoC and the DAC's USB interface.

 

The DAC is Lampizator Big7 MKII with JLSounds usb board.   I use LMS/Daphile via upnp as server and a QNAP NAS.  The HQPe PC is Asus PN-51-s1 with AMD 5800u CPU, running Ubuntu 22.04 server minimal install -in a fanless Akasa case.  My network consists of cable modem, Netgear router, unmanaged switches, Netgear powerline adapters.
 

The thing is, right now as I sit here, the crackles are gone using USB 3.0 output on the fitlet2 NAA.  I put in an additional  power line adapter dedicated to the DAC/NAA and through a different AC socket as a trouble shooting measure - it seems to have worked -for now.  However, the issue has been intermittent which makes it even more difficult to isolate.

 

Thanks Miska, I immensely enjoy your product.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, cpcat said:

The DAC is Lampizator Big7 MKII with JLSounds usb board.   I use LMS/Daphile via upnp as server and a QNAP NAS.  The HQPe PC is Asus PN-51-s1 with AMD 5800u CPU, running Ubuntu 22.04 server minimal install -in a fanless Akasa case.  My network consists of cable modem, Netgear router, unmanaged switches, Netgear powerline adapters.

 

I don't know details of such setup. Is the QNAP acting as UPnP Media Server? If not, there are three network hops that matter. Is it like NAS -> LMS -> HQPlayer -> NAA?

 

JLSounds is very reliable and generally trouble free. I just recommend using USB HiSpeed Certified cables.

 

Likely tricky part are powerline adapters or wireless bridges which can have varying performance depending on the environment at the particular moment.

 

2 hours ago, cpcat said:

However, the issue has been intermittent which makes it even more difficult to isolate.

 

Biggest trouble makers for things like power line adapters and similar are anything with large electric motors and tube lights. Such as washing machines, AC, and similar. So when problems emerge, I would recommend to keep eye what is drawing current from the mains at that moment.

 

 

[cpcat]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I don't know details of such setup. Is the QNAP acting as UPnP Media Server? If not, there are three network hops that matter. Is it like NAS -> LMS -> HQPlayer -> NAA?

Setup is QNAP NAS->LMS(Daphile) on Fitlet2->HQPe PC (Ubuntu server)->second Fitlet2 (NAA).  

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

JLSounds is very reliable and generally trouble free. I just recommend using USB HiSpeed Certified cables.

 

Likely tricky part are powerline adapters or wireless bridges which can have varying performance depending on the environment at the particular moment.

 

 

Biggest trouble makers for things like power line adapters and similar are anything with large electric motors and tube lights. Such as washing machines, AC, and similar. So when problems emerge, I would recommend to keep eye what is drawing current from the mains at that moment.

 

 

Thanks again, will try to pay attention to that.  Still quiet here, maybe it is finally solved.  😊 Sound is phenomenal so it is worth the effort.

[cpcat]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I don't know details of such setup. Is the QNAP acting as UPnP Media Server? If not, there are three network hops that matter. Is it like NAS -> LMS -> HQPlayer -> NAA?

 

JLSounds is very reliable and generally trouble free. I just recommend using USB HiSpeed Certified cables.

 

Likely tricky part are powerline adapters or wireless bridges which can have varying performance depending on the environment at the particular moment.

 

 

Biggest trouble makers for things like power line adapters and similar are anything with large electric motors and tube lights. Such as washing machines, AC, and similar. So when problems emerge, I would recommend to keep eye what is drawing current from the mains at that moment.

 

 

Ok so it recurred.  When I sat down to listen this afternoon it (static/pops/cracks) was back.  No major appliance or HVAC correlation either at least as far as I can tell.  The only thing that changed is I did shut the HQPe PC down last night, then restarted today before my first listen of the day.  The DAC, NAS, LMS/Daphile PC were all left on overnite.

 

What I did discover is that rebooting the NAA pc (fitlet2) fixes it and have confirmed that twice….

[stefano_mbp]

49 minutes ago, cpcat said:

What I did discover is that rebooting the NAA pc (fitlet2) fixes it and have confirmed that twice….

Dac must be powered on for first, then power on NAA and finally power on HQPlayer

[Schafheide]

First I must say that I do like the SQ of my Sonore UltraRendu (esp with Sonore LPS). But it does not yet have the latest NAA version.

Given how easy it is to burn the latest Signalyst OS + NAA image to a uSD card, has anyone compared the SQ?

[Account Closed]

2 hours ago, Schafheide said:

First I must say that I do like the SQ of my Sonore UltraRendu (esp with Sonore LPS). But it does not yet have the latest NAA version.

Given how easy it is to burn the latest Signalyst OS + NAA image to a uSD card, has anyone compared the SQ?

I have used both and I don’t hear any difference.

[cpcat]

16 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Dac must be powered on for first, then power on NAA and finally power on HQPlayer

Thanks.  I think I will leave my HQPe server PC on from now on.  It is a server right?

I normally switch my DAC off at nite though to save tube life.  The NAS has a power schedule and goes off at 2 am , on at 5 pm on weekdays.  
 

I loaded my music library on the SSD where HQPe resides yesterday after some fanfare with samba and permissions etc.  I also ended up needing to install Avahi  in the process for local host name recognition.   I forgot how nice the HQPD control app is. 😊 
 

I didn’t have any more problems all day yesterday with the noise so -fingers crossed.  Now that I know that rebooting the NAA fixes it- less of a problem. 

[Schafheide]

20 hours ago, bobflood said:

I have used both and I don’t hear any difference.

Maybe @Miska can say what improvements he was trying to achieve with the latest NAA ??  I can certainly see that the file size is considerably smaller than the previous version.

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

Maybe @Miska can say what improvements he was trying to achieve with the latest NAA ??  I can certainly see that the file size is considerably smaller than the previous version.

 

You mean just the networkaudiod software module? Not the whole OS?

 

On networkaudiod, most of the recent changes circulate around the input support. Plus some updates to CoreAudio and ASIO backends for example. I have also changed some thread priority assignments.

 

I have not heard of anyone using Rendu for input.

 

[Schafheide]

I mean the whole package, which is burnt to uSD, to replace the original uSD in the ultraRendu (ie the file NAA-440-cubox).

[Miska]

49 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

I mean the whole package, which is burnt to uSD, to replace the original uSD in the ultraRendu (ie the file NAA-440-cubox).

 

The OS has plenty of updates, like driver updates to support new devices, etc. This is sort of separate track from the networkaudiod module itself. For the very latest things, one can use HQPlayer OS image as a NAA too.

 

[Schafheide]

Now I am confused.  Can this image be burnt and inserted into the Rendu?

If yes, which download file is it?

[Account Closed]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

Now I am confused.  Can this image be burnt and inserted into the Rendu?

If yes, which download file is it?

The only one that will work in the URendu is the Cubox version. The HQP OS version is for a regular computer. The ones I compared were the version still on the Sonore OS and the latest Cubox version, and as I said, I could not tell any difference.

[SPAZ]

Hi Everyone,

 

I recently ordered a NOS DAC to replace my Yggy and I had a couple of questions. I will have two connections to the new DAC. One will be my gaming PC connected to the DAC with a USB cable. The other will be a Holo Audio Red connected to the AES port. Currently, the Roon library is running from my gaming pc. Does the Holo Audio Red have the ability to do the HQP filtering if I purchase the HQPlayer imbedded license or I would still need to have something in between to do the HQP filtering?

 

Thanks