Harbeths not delivering enough dynamics

[ethelthefrog]

I may be crazy but I just can’t get settled with the combination of Harbeth 30.1s and my Naim uniti Atom. There’s just not enough punch - i.e. dynamics and bass definition. Just for fun I connected the Atom as a preamp to my 1979 Marantz receiver (30 watts) and there was the punch I’d been missing. Not particularly refined punch, but punch nonetheless.

 

So chicken or egg? Are the Harbeths too polite for the music I like (Classic Rock, Soul, 50s Jazz)? Do they need more power than the Atom can provide? Or is this just a bad sonic pairing? I’m not sure if I need to look for better suited speakers or a higher-powered amp/streamer combo.

 

I should also mention that I’m in a small condominium but the speakers shoot the length of the unit, not the width. My listening chair is about 10 feet from the speakers, but I have another 10 or 12 feet behind me. Ceiling is 9 feet and the width of the room is 12 feet. 

 

Help!

[davide256]

Your speakers are the same efficiency as my MG 1.7's, 85 db. The Uniti atom is only a 40 watt amp.  My magnepans don't come to life for "slam"  with less than the 100watts +

of my Hafler. Sounds like you may want to consider an Odyssey amp or better to get the watts/transient response you want.

 

PS my listening room is 12x12 with 16 ft ceiling

[jcbenten]

If you like the Naim sound, try the SuperNait.  If that is not enough the next step would be the 250.  You can always keep the Atom as your streamer, etc.. (I believe).

[firedog]

I think the previous post about your amp not having enough "grunt" for the speakers may  be correct. This is influenced not just by the power rating, but by the amount of current the amp has, and how quickly it can ramp up the power.

 

The other factor is if your room is possibly a bit big for your present setup, meaning not just an amp issue, but also what the speakers are designed for.

 

My suggestion would be to borrow a couple of more capable amps or find some you can trial to see if it solves your problem. I'd assume Harbeth or a Harbeth dealer could advise you.

 

Personally, I'm pretty much always on the side of feeding speakers a lot of high quality power. To me it almost always sounds better. Meaning even if you think your setup sounds fine, more better quality power will noticeably improve it. The speaker-amp interface is one of the most important factors in good/better sound.

[all300b]

The timeless conflict between frequency response and sensitivity... and time response. Harbeth goes all in on the former. Agree with suggestion for more current though underlying issue remains relatively low sensitivity and a relatively large room. 

 

 

[GregWormald]

The Harbeths are down 3dB at 50 Hz, so slightly more than the bottom octave is missing, and this could have something to do with the issue, especially in your fair-sized room.

 

The Naim is only specified at 8 ohms, so there is no indication of the current (amperage) that it can deliver, which does affect slam and sudden transients. The Harbeths are 6 ohms nominal, so may go considerably lower and the Naim may not be coping. Many people vastly under estimate the amount of power required by bass transients.

 

If you listen loud, then a better amp may be needed. It would certainly be best to audition a more powerful amp and see if that is the issue.

[ethelthefrog]

Thanks to all for confirming my worst belief. I sometimes question if I'm an audiophile at all. I really don't enjoy chasing down equipment for $$$$ in order to find the sound I expect. I just want a simple, high-quality experience. 

 

Not wanting to go through the machinations of auditioning tons of equipment, I made  what I suppose was an uneducated guess...audition and buy a top speaker and pair it with a similarly priced and highly reviewed source/amp. Of course none of my dealers sold both brands, so I took a flyer. 

 

Now I'm back to the search. My decision will have to be to either keep the Atom for convenience/capability and find more dynamic speakers or keep the Harbeths and start another  $$$$ journey into separates. Ugh. For me, this process isn't the hobby  - the music is the hobby.

 

Thanks to all for your wisdom. I wish it was easier to learn these things before laying out the cash!

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I had the smaller Harbeth P3ESR and sold them for the same reason. I never looked back. 

 

Anytime you expesss the slightest negative opinion towards Harbeth speakers you get told that you are not using them correctly: wrong amp, wrong stands... The funny thing is that Alan Shaw (from Harbeth) explains that any amp and stands will do. 

[SuperRoo]

I'm happy with my P3 40th's driven by mono Vidars. They like juice.

[GregWormald]

12 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

Thanks to all for confirming my worst belief. I sometimes question if I'm an audiophile at all. I really don't enjoy chasing down equipment for $$$$ in order to find the sound I expect. I just want a simple, high-quality experience. 

Ahhh, if only there was such a thing! Great fantasy though.

12 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

Not wanting to go through the machinations of auditioning tons of equipment, I made  what I suppose was an uneducated guess...audition and buy a top speaker and pair it with a similarly priced and highly reviewed source/amp. Of course none of my dealers sold both brands, so I took a flyer. 

I'm sure lots of us have done that; I know I have. So far I've only made one error that caused me to throw the new purchase away and go back to the old. As the number of options continue to multiply, and auditioning becomes harder to arrange, and internet sales increase, and anyone now can make (almost) any claim they like, it's getting more difficult to choose and "get it right the first time". Sorry about the progress.

 

You said you liked the speaker and bought it first, so do try other amps. At least they are easy to transport and set up. Speaking of set-up, how much effort did you spend setting up the room and speakers? Remember the set-up and room can be highly influential to the reproduction of the music.

12 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

Now I'm back to the search. My decision will have to be to either keep the Atom for convenience/capability and find more dynamic speakers or keep the Harbeths and start another  $$$$ journey into separates. Ugh. For me, this process isn't the hobby  - the music is the hobby.

I too prefer the music to the equipment, but the music, to me, is much more than a hobby.

12 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

Thanks to all for your wisdom. I wish it was easier to learn these things before laying out the cash!

Philosophical rant: At least it was only money. Some people make decisions that cost them much more than that.

 

Keep remembering that when you get what works, it will provide pleasure for probably years.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 hours ago, SuperRoo said:

I'm happy with my P3 40th's driven by mono Vidars. They like juice.

 

I had both the standard model and the Anniversary model. The difference between the two models is significant (but I sold both!). 

[SuperRoo]

What are you using now?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 minutes ago, SuperRoo said:

What are you using now?

 

Davis Courbet 4. They are much easier to "drive". 

[SuperRoo]

Nice, but they won't fit on my desktop.

[Jsmith]

I had a pair of Harbeth's once (C7 line I think) and paired them with a Naim Nait XS and a REL sub.  To date, that was still the best sounding system I ever put together and miss it.  But with the power of the Nait XS in my room size was enough.