Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[hoppy100]

@TheAttorney

Could I ask what value SR fuse you chose for the MU1.  I don't see the recommended 630 mA fast blow in SR's current inventory.

Did you go up to 800 or down to 500 mA.  I ask as not to void a warranty if I purchase the unit.

[edwardsean]

15 minutes ago, hoppy100 said:

@TheAttorney

Could I ask what value SR fuse you chose for the MU1.  I don't see the recommended 630 mA fast blow in SR's current inventory.

Did you go up to 800 or down to 500 mA.  I ask as not to void a warranty if I purchase the unit.

Also, did you find the Purples remained a bit too smooth, or did it resolve to greater clarity with burn in. Now that they've settled and  you've had some time with them do you still think they are a significant upgrade from the Oranges?

[TheAttorney]

14 hours ago, hoppy100 said:

@TheAttorney

Could I ask what value SR fuse you chose for the MU1.  I don't see the recommended 630 mA fast blow in SR's current inventory.

Did you go up to 800 or down to 500 mA.  I ask as not to void a warranty if I purchase the unit.

 

With SR's widespread reputation for premature failures (including a failed Orange for me in a different setup), you should only go higher - never lower. I went for 1.2A slow, which is a bit higher than strictly necessary, but this value has more chance of being more universal in the future, e.g. for MU2 maybe. Yes it's a small risk that I'm prepared to take. Most failures with such hifi components will occur before the slow blow fuse has had time to react.

 

The Purple did settle down to a very balanced performance that was across-the-board better than the Orange. I didn't go back to the Orange to try to quantify this more. I only have 2 fuses in my entire system, so fuse rolling isn't a big deal for me. I think edwardsean you have a lot more than this - in which case I suggest you try just 1 swap to see if it's worth it for you.

[PYP]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:24 PM, FredM said:

Nice Grimm Audio company overview by Alpha Audio. In this extended interview (1h50!) various topics are covered, like company history, background of Eelco Grimm and Guido Tent (both lecturers), what’s drives them, design philosophy, network company, new products, ..

 

On the MU1 the power supply, clock circuitry, jitter treatment, importance of up scaling via the FPGA board and the in-house software development are mentioned. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6YPznUzSRB0&feature=emb_logo

 

The interview is in English (after ~30 seconds), for quick access you can use the timestamps in the description on Youtube.

 

Finally watched this conversation.  It is truly excellent.  One (of many, many) interesting points is that they believe the MU1 doesn't need fancy cables.  

 

Since some reviewers and some folks here have already stated that the AES/EBU cable does matter, I'm wondering whether anyone has done the same experiment with the copper ethernet cable feeding the MU1 and its power cable.  

 

I have found that the Tambaqui DAC is sensitive to both the ethernet cable (if you are using that input) and the power cable.  

[SackATK]

Does the MU1 need fancy cables to do its magic? No. Can it be improved with fancy cables? Yes.  In my experience, the responses above is universal to all audio components I've had the pleasure of owning or demoing.  I've played with two ethernet cables and three network switches with the MU1. These things made an audible difference in my system. I've yet to switch out the Shunyata V14 Digital power cable but I would expect a fancier cable to sound better.

[aangen]

I using a Stealth Audio Octiva-T AES/EBU cable and a Dream 18 V18 UNI power cable for my MU1. These two cables together cost more than the MU1. But they don’t seem to hurt things. I have tried lesser cables and find I prefer these. I think it s common for gear manufacturers to say you don’t need nor will you benefit from expensive cables. Lots of people agree with this. Many of us believe otherwise. Find a friend who has better cables and see if they will let you try one to see. Or try the Cable Company lending library.

 

Or better still decide cables don’t make a difference and save your money.

 

I have found that cables can and do make a difference. I also believe the world is round for what it’s worth.

[PYP]

7 minutes ago, aangen said:

I have found that cables can and do make a difference. I also believe the world is round for what it’s worth.

Me too, on both parts.  

[TomAus]

The MU1 does benefit from good cables, at least in my system.  I use a TYR 2 AES-EBU cable out, and a LA Sound Titan S6 power cord. When I ordered my MU1 I also ordered their TPR AES cable, just to try it. It is a good cable and many might be happy with it, but you can do better. I also ordered my MU1 with the 8TB internal SSD. 
 

Regarding fuses, I checked with Eelco about this. He pretty much said that any deviation from the specified fuse would void the warranty. Yes, I know, all manufacturers say that. Still, I’m not one to push my luck so I now use a Hifi Tuning Supreme of the exact value specified. It does sound better than the stock fuse, but no doubt the SR Purple and Audio Magic Ultimate sound better.  You can specify the exact spec needed with the Audio Magic Ultimate fuse. I might order one sometime. 
 

I’m very happy with the SQ as it is right now. No changes for a while, I hope. 

[SackATK]

46 minutes ago, aangen said:

I think it s common for gear manufacturers to say you don’t need nor will you benefit from expensive cables. Lots of people agree with this. Many of us believe otherwise.

 

I'm in the otherwise camp.  And to prove that they matter, I use the best measurement tools I have called my ears and my brain.  Both have evolved over many millenia and the latter is the best supercomputer ever known.  At the end of the day, I have to make myself happy and not some oscilloscope. 

 

I don't blame manufacturers for saying cables don't matter. They spend all of their time and research to make their products work well (as they should) and these are things they can control (things internal to their products). They can't control external factors like what cables listeners decide to use with their products so why spend precious energy to determine rigorously how cables impact their products?  And no manufacturer wants to say to a customer you're missing out on 30% better performance for the DAC if you don't pair it with a $2000 power cable. 

[PYP]

I'm hoping to have a home demo of the MU1 later this month.  In the meantime, I'm curious about whether folks have ordered the internal SSD and whether that is worth having.  Seems like Grimm Audio believes there is no difference between SSD and streaming in terms of sound quality.   I don't have the need for further storage.

[TheAttorney]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:42 PM, PYP said:

I'm hoping to have a home demo of the MU1 later this month.  In the meantime, I'm curious about whether folks have ordered the internal SSD and whether that is worth having.  Seems like Grimm Audio believes there is no difference between SSD and streaming in terms of sound quality.   I don't have the need for further storage.

I'm not sure if your last sentence means that you never listen to local files.

I would say get at least the smallest 1TB SSD anyway as it gives greater flexibility for the future and much easier to sell in the unlikely event you'll ever want to sell your MU1. SSDs don't cost much these days, so it's a small percentage of the overall price.

 

I recall an earlier post which stated that the internal SSD sounded better than a network drive. My internal SSD certainly sounds great, although I've not compared it to any other form of storage.

 

Regarding Grimm's claim of no difference between SSD and streaming - most designers proudly claim (and probably believe) that their "baby" is perfect in all sorts of ways, but owners frequently find otherwise. I haven't done this particular comparison, but in general I tend to trust my own ears rather than blindly believe the designer.

 

 

 

[PYP]

5 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm not sure if your last sentence means that you never listen to local files.

I would say get at least the smallest 1TB SSD anyway as it gives greater flexibility for the future and much easier to sell in the unlikely event you'll ever want to sell your MU1. SSDs don't cost much these days, so it's a small percentage of the overall price.

 

Thank you.  Seems Grimm now offers 2TB and 8TB choices.  The prices are indeed reasonable.  I typically like to keep my system as simple as possible.  Since I stream most of the time discovering new music via Roon/Qobuz, and my local library is already stored on two different drives (for safety reasons), I am thinking about whether a local drive is needed in my case.   I have plenty of time to think about that while I wait for the demo unit.  

 

Long ago, when I had a Bryston BDP, I listened to the difference between local drives connected to the gear (both USB and hard drive) as well as streaming.  There were differences, but they were small.  

 

Currently, if the streaming file is 24 bit, I engage with the music very easily and don't have a desire for anything more.  Frankly, if I hadn't read this thread and reviews that specifically used the Tambaqui DAC with the MU1, I wouldn't have been interested in upgrades.  

 

I'm truly curious about the effect of the MU1 in my setup and don't know what to expect.  Which is exactly how I like to proceed with a demo.  

[TomAus]

Hello @PYP  Yes, I concur with @TheAttorney regarding the internal SSD.  In my system, I can hear slight improvements in resolution and air when playing from the internal SSD - quite possibly just due to reduced noise, I don't know.  As well, I know it can be tricky to replace (or add) a larger SSD if you decide you later need it.  A friend here had that issue - he went from a 1TB disk to an 8TB disk. It has to be a specific model of Samsung EVO, and there is some finagling to get it setup correctly. He did it with a more computer literate friend using Eelco's instructions.  Grimm much prefers you order the MU1 with the appropriate SSD.  In your case, maybe your dealer can do it for you if need be.  Here (Australia) the importer/dealer is still ramping up so my friend had no local support.

 

So I suggest you get the largest SSD currently available for the MU1, that being the 8TB.  It's not a lot of money.  And I suspect you'll find you use it more than you might think.

 

I haven't tried a USB disk plugged into the back of the MU1, so can't say what the SQ might be like.  I have tried a 64GB USB flash drive plugged into the back - it worked fine, and sounded OK.  But with the differences of different USB controllers, it's likely best to stay away from USB if you can.  Of course it'll always work, but may not sound it's best.

 

As for the SQ of the MU1, I think you'll be quite happy.  It's quite alive and real sounding but not in a harsh upfront manner.  I've had my MU1 for 5-6 months now, and I'm still impressed by it.  

 

[PYP]

19 hours ago, TomAus said:

I haven't tried a USB disk plugged into the back of the MU1, so can't say what the SQ might be like.  I have tried a 64GB USB flash drive plugged into the back - it worked fine, and sounded OK.  But with the differences of different USB controllers, it's likely best to stay away from USB if you can.  Of course it'll always work, but may not sound it's best.

Any comments from owners regarding the SQ using the USB input for storage devices vs. built in SSD and streaming?    

[FredM]

5 minutes ago, PYP said:

Any comments from owners regarding the SQ using the USB input for storage devices vs. built in SSD and streaming?    

For simplicity reasons I would opt for internal storage, especially when it can be installed initially.
 

ps My NAS just died.. so also keen to determine an alternative option (music itself has a good backup).

[PYP]

1 minute ago, FredM said:

For simplicity reasons I would opt for internal storage, especially when it can be installed initially.
 

ps My NAS just died.. so also keen to determine an alternative option (music itself has a good backup).

Thank you, Fred.  After posting, I started to read the MU1 software manual and see that the USB-connected drives are "read only," so not a good alternative for internal storage that can be updated with new music and used for Roon backups.   Too bad since that would make adding storage very simple.  

 

If the MU1 works for me, opting for internal storage does appear to be the best option, as you say.  The price is so reasonable. My only hesitation is that the dealer providing the demo told me he orders units without internal storage.  That would mean that I couldn't try that feature out and will need to ask that he special orders one with storage unless he can install the SSD.  Not big deal.  Just have a few weeks to spend getting ready for the arrival of the demo unit.  You know the proverb regarding idle hands.  🙃

[FredM]

Haha, you can start rubbing your hands.. As soon as the MU1 is connected, I think the ‘music storage location’ will be quite irrelevant 😄.

 

Listening this evening, it’s just such a pleasure (goosebumps on arms, back, legs). Just sit and enjoy the music. With your Mola Mola DAC you’re in for a ride! 

[aangen]

I bought my MU1 with the 8TB internal SSD. It is close to full. Lots of FLAC, AIFF, and DSD files. It sounds wonderful and in my opinion it betters the sound quality of streaming. I also have an external 2TB Samsung T7 SSD mounted via USB. It is easily disconnected and carried to my computer to add or revise music on it. It too sounds wonderful. Grimm decided to protect us from ourselves and make external drives read only. I have written to them and begged they change this. I want to be able to manage my external drives the same way I manage the internal SSD. They have replied they are considering this for a future update. I hope they do so.

 

The person who wrote that their dealer refuses to order an MU1 with and internal SSD needs to find a new dealer. My dealer does not have this silly condition. I would be happy to refer you to him.

 

I look forward to the day when a 16TB internal SSD becomes an option. I don’t need it now but I know I am almost out of space on my 8TB drive.

[FredM]

Review by Hans Beekhuyzen

“But the MU1 offers something more, something magical, something extremely addictive”

He bought the MU1 👍

 

 

[SackATK]

My favorite quote from the video:

 

"I have a problem here, for I'm not sure I'm able to fully describe what I'm hearing..."

 

Some of us understand this fully.

 

I'm excited about the new features coming down the pipe as well.  My Benchmark DAC3 I believe has the 3dB Headroom feature built in but now it seems like all DACs can possibly benefit from this feature with the MU1.  Very nice. 

 

 

[TheAttorney]

3 hours ago, FredM said:

Review by Hans Beekhuyzen

“But the MU1 offers something more, something magical, something extremely addictive”

He bought the MU1 👍

 

Thank you for the video link.

 

Regarding the upcoming upgrade, the surround sound is of no use to me, but the new html system interface looks interesting - the current onboard interface is ok for basic changes, but will become increasingly clunky as the system features expand. One of these new features is the display brightness control which I've been waiting for, with the added bonus of an "auto dimming" tick box which I assume will enable the display to auto switch off after a few seconds of inactivity.

 

Regarding the new free music app option as alternative for Roon: Having now re-acquainted myself with Roon, I'd be loath to give that up now. I'm aiming to get an ipad for remote control because the portrait aspect ratio seems to give a better experience than landscape on my Windows laptop - e.g. when displaying the artist images. Anyway, as Roon already integrates well with Tidal and Qobuz, it would be quite nice if the new free app would support Spotify (with the upcoming lossless Spotify hifi service just around the corner).

[PYP]

9 hours ago, FredM said:

Review by Hans Beekhuyzen

“But the MU1 offers something more, something magical, something extremely addictive”

Thanks.  Interesting review.  He mentioned that Grimm says any jittery source can be used without consequence. Would have been interesting if he removed the Eno filter and (SOtM?) switch to test the result in his setup.  But it seemed he plugged in the MU1 and fell in love, end of story.   He takes a very rational, low-key approach to reviewing equipment, so it was a surprise to hear him say "magical" and "extremely addictive" in his review (and was it only me or did you see a strange glimmer in his eye when he said that - LOL).  

 

I'll get the chance to hear for myself early next month.  Would be interesting if the updates he spoke about were available then.  I much prefer a computer interface to a control on top of the MU1 (although our 20 pound Tabby_Damper, see avatar, might like it).  The Tambaqui has a fully functional app that is very convenient for settings.  That has become my standard for an equipment interface.  

[further]

3 hours ago, PYP said:

Thanks.  Interesting review.  He mentioned that Grimm says any jittery source can be used without consequence. Would have been interesting if he removed the Eno filter and (SOtM?) switch to test the result in his setup.  But it seemed he plugged in the MU1 and fell in love, end of story.   He takes a very rational, low-key approach to reviewing equipment, so it was a surprise to hear him say "magical" and "extremely addictive" in his review (and was it only me or did you see a strange glimmer in his eye when he said that - LOL).  

 

I'll get the chance to hear for myself early next month.  Would be interesting if the updates he spoke about were available then.  I much prefer a computer interface to a control on top of the MU1 (although our 20 pound Tabby_Damper, see avatar, might like it).  The Tambaqui has a fully functional app that is very convenient for settings.  That has become my standard for an equipment interface.  

I very much look forward to your feedback of the MU1 with your Tambaqui.   I agree the Mola-Mola app is very functional for set up as well as more common tasks to include switching inputs, volume control, etc.   I, at times, do have to go through some fiddling around for reconnecting via Bluetooth.  For typical common/mundane tasks like switching inputs and volume control, I typically manually do so on my Makua.  The supplied Apple remote, for me, had more latency than I wanted.   I did see on recent GTT YouTube video that Mola-Mola will be shipping with new metal remote control and intends to provide to prior owners as well.

[FredM]

22 hours ago, SackATK said:

My favorite quote from the video:

 

"I have a problem here, for I'm not sure I'm able to fully describe what I'm hearing..."

 

Some of us understand this fully.

+1 

Great to see how everyone is trying to grab what they hear objectively. It’s just easier to describe the personal experience with the MU1 (musical connection, emotion, goosebumps, etc)

 

 

19 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Thank you for the video link.

 

Regarding the upcoming upgrade … the new html system interface looks interesting

 

Regarding the new free music app option as alternative for Roon: Having now re-acquainted myself with Roon, I'd be loath to give that up now.

 

Indeed. The web interface is a keen approach to expand on new features, without the limitations of the screen size. I’m looking forward to the support of Grimm’s LS1 speakers via the MU1, nice integrated approach/convenience! That said, I’m not using menu options that often. For normal listening, just press play in the Roon app. Only for movie/HT use now and than I switch to the optical input on the MU1, that’s about it.

 

 

13 hours ago, PYP said:

… he plugged in the MU1 and fell in love, end of story.   He takes a very rational, low-key approach to reviewing equipment, so it was a surprise to hear him say "magical" and "extremely addictive" in his review (and was it only me or did you see a strange glimmer in his eye when he said that - LOL).  

 

I'll get the chance to hear for myself early next month.  Would be interesting if the updates he spoke about were available then.  I much prefer a computer interface to a control on top of the MU1 (although our 20 pound Tabby_Damper, see avatar, might like it).  The Tambaqui has a fully functional app that is very convenient for settings.  That has become my standard for an equipment interface.  

Yes, he could be in love, very nice to see his enthusiasm
Have fun next month 👍🎵🎶

 

 

 

9 hours ago, further said:

I very much look forward to your feedback of the MU1 with your Tambaqui.   I agree the Mola-Mola app is very functional for set up as well as more common tasks to include switching inputs, volume control, etc.   I, at times, do have to go through some fiddling around for reconnecting via Bluetooth.  For typical common/mundane tasks like switching inputs and volume control, I typically manually do so on my Makua.  The supplied Apple remote, for me, had more latency than I wanted.   I did see on recent GTT YouTube video that Mola-Mola will be shipping with new metal remote control and intends to provide to prior owners as well.

The MU1 & Tambaqui seem to match great, for what I see it’s a popular combination (MU1 users buying the Tambaqui, and vice versa).

[soupcon]

I'm excited by the prospect of having the Grimm in my system, but I have some hesitations because of Roon. I am not happy with some of the indexing that has resulted at least on my system. And I'm very, very unimpressed with the level of service you get when you have a problem. This is aside from the sonic compromise, which I am persuaded that the Grimm addresses. 

 

Any comments on this? The one thing I like about my DCS network bridge is that I can always use the Mosaic interface and player (way better sounding) if I suddenly decided to ditch Roon. I've been close a few times.